Narrowboats Too Cold For Winter Living

[Peter X]

But at least they didn't get TB, back in the good old days patients with TB were wheeled outside to shiver, it was 'Good for them'

According to a documentary I saw on TV a few years ago, until modern treatment became available in the 1950s and all but wiped out TB in developed countries, wheeling patients outside was the standard treatment and it was fairly effective! Patients were wrapped up against the cold (maybe not always well enough, but there was no intention for them to be cold), and breathing fresh air was the objective, and was beneficial. After a long period of such treatment, patients would generally recover.

 

As to the question of the cold narrow boat, I'm sure it's possible if the heating arrangements are not right, but it's entirely possible to get them right. Boats I've been on in cold weather (several different ones) do tend to be too hot close to the stove and rather cool at the far end of the boat, but if proper measures have been taken they don't need to be cold even there. It's always possible to keep warm in bed with a thick enough duvet, or out of it by lurking near the stove and/or wearing the right clothes. And as has been said, it costs a lot less to heat a narrow boat well than a house badly.

 

A boat is indeed often much colder near the floor because there's little insulation from the cold canal water, but the right socks and footwear soon solves that problem.

[mross]

When I were a lad, I tried to grow a carrot top in a saucer of water, on my bedroom window sill. But by morning the water had frozen solid. We seemed to be cold all day! When I got to school we were given a bottle of milk (third of a pint) but that was mostly frozen too. It was better in the evenings because the gas fire had been lit in the sitting room. There was no central heating, only gas fires in the downstairs rooms. In the UK it was about 1980 before 50% of homes had central heating!

 

Eee, I've just realised, I've become an Old Fart!

Edited November 11, 2016 by mross

[ditchcrawler]

Rockwool has a thermal conductivity of 0.044W/mK. I found one figure for spray foam of 0.037W/mK so the foam is about 18% better which means that one inch of foam won't match 4 inches of rockwool as used in a loft.

Yes and that is modern rockwool laid out all nice and fluffy not what has been sandwiched in a boat for 20 years being vibrated down and getting damp, I hate to think what that would be down to. But there are lots of other things in the equation to like area and volume.

[Peter X]

Our school milk wasn't usually frozen down in South London, though it often was in the terrible winter of 1962-63. The caretaker would place the crates in front of the classroom radiator which partly thawed them out, but I felt freezing ruined the taste.

 

At home we just had a coal fire in one room downstairs and a gas fire in another, with some warmth drifting upstairs from those, but in the absence of loft insulation or double glazing the bedrooms were pretty cold in a bad winter. I coped fine, but of course children don't feel the cold so much as the elderly.

[ditchcrawler]

When I were a lad, I tried to grow a carrot top in a saucer of water, on my bedroom window sill. But by morning the water had frozen solid. We seemed to be cold all day! When I got to school we were given a bottle of milk (third of a pint) but that was mostly frozen too. It was better in the evenings because the gas fire had been lit in the sitting room. There was no central heating, only gas fires in the downstairs rooms. In the UK it was about 1980 before 50% of homes had central heating!

 

Eee, I've just realised, I've become an Old Fart!

Very similar but we just had one open fire downstairs, come home from school and light the oil stove in the middle of the room and then light the fire, I could lay and light a fire at 5 years old.

[cereal tiller]

Roughly, what are you spending a week to heat your boat?

In sub zero temperatures,approx. £21.00 per week

With Temps. in double figures roughly £10.00 weekly

 

CT

[Jrtm]

Needs to walk along the towpath on a frosty morning and see how many boat have doors and windows open to let the heat out.

Yes i know very door and gap open to get heat out as fire going so i can use the oven. As long as its not wet im happy

[Machpoint005]

The insulation on a boat is different to loft insulation, being solid. I wonder what the heat transfer coefficients are like in comparison.

 

Boat insulation is usually foam, which gives better insulation than fibre blanket -- rule of thumb, about half the thickness for the same U value.

 

The thing that strikes me about this story (and I am one who is more than happy to defer to expert opinion) is that we seem to have a medical practitioner proselytising on an engineering matter. Some of them have a tendency to do that -- it arises (IMHO) out of years of having nobody contradict them.

 

I'm sorry, but the good doctor doesn't (fully) know what she is taking about.

One relevant point that occurs to me is that in a house (ceiling height at least 2.5m, often much more) you have to heat a lot of air before you feel the benefit when seated. In a boat (maximum ceiling height less than 2m) there is a lot less air to heat, so the temperature at sitting height increases much more quickly from cold.

 

As many previous posters have effectively said.

[Cheshire cat]

And then there's the Ecofan. You don't get them in houses......................... I'll get me coat.

[Sea Dog]

 

The thing that strikes me about this story (and I am one who is more than happy to defer to expert opinion) is that we seem to have a medical practitioner proselytising on an engineering matter. Some of them have a tendency to do that -- it arises (IMHO) out of years of having nobody contradict them.

 

I'm sorry, but the good doctor doesn't (fully) know what she is taking about.

I fully see your point, particularly the bit about no-one contradicting her. As an engineer I often ribbed my MD friends that we couldn't look at a malfunctioning equipment, prescribe rest and paracetamol to ease the symptoms, and ask it to come back in a week if it hadn't fixed itself (which, more often than not, might reasonably be expected).

 

However, in the Doctor's defence, it wasn't our warm and cosy boats she was referring to. There are other boats...!

[mross]

The article in narrowboatworld gives the name of the doctor so, I think, we should talk about things in general terms and not this specific case. Otherwise, it seems unfair to criticise her good intentions when she's not here to defend her opinions.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

When I were a lad, I tried to grow a carrot top in a saucer of water, on my bedroom window sill. But by morning the water had frozen solid. We seemed to be cold all day! When I got to school we were given a bottle of milk (third of a pint) but that was mostly frozen too. It was better in the evenings because the gas fire had been lit in the sitting room. There was no central heating, only gas fires in the downstairs rooms. In the UK it was about 1980 before 50% of homes had central heating!

 

Eee, I've just realised, I've become an Old Fart!

You're lucky, we lived in a shoe box.

 

 

I used to live in a farm house with no central heating and rattling sash windows.

Now I live on a boat with a stove. Luxury.

[IanM]

And then there's the Ecofan. You don't get them in houses......................... I'll get me coat.

 

Our next door neighbour has one in their house.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Our next door neighbour has one in their house.

My father in law has one also!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

 

Our next door neighbour has one in their house.

Does it work well enough to keep your back entrance warm?

[Athy]

Does it work well enough to keep your back entrance warm?

That would surely depend on which way round he stands.

[MartinC]

The article in narrowboatworld gives the name of the doctor so, I think, we should talk about things in general terms and not this specific case. Otherwise, it seems unfair to criticise her good intentions when she's not here to defend her opinions.

 

No "Dr Alison Fells" comes up on a search of the GMC Register so, possibly , she is "not here"?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

 

I am Dr Alison Fells.

[Sea Dog]

I am Dr Alison Fells.

No, I am Dr Alison Fells... and so is my wife!

 

Welease Wodderwick!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Oh,

 

 

I really thought I was.

 

 

I will think again.

Oh,

Edited November 11, 2016 by Goliath

[MHS]

 

No "Dr Alison Fells" comes up on a search of the GMC Register so, possibly , she is "not here"?

I can't even find a doctor Alison Fells on Google. So unless narrowboatworld reported the story incorrectly, she is an imposter!!

[Sea Dog]

What, we can't believe everything we read on the Internet?

[mross]

There is a Professor of that name at Leeds University.

[Peter X]

There is a Professor of that name at Leeds University.

You mean?:

https://www.leeds.ac.uk/arts/profile/20053/361/alison_fell

She's Professor of French Cultural History covering:

Women and war; French Culture and the First World War; French and British women in the interwar period; French women's writing

Very knowledgeable in her field no doubt, but unlikely to know much about keeping a narrow boat warm and the medical effects of failure to do so.

[Phil Ambrose]

According to a documentary I saw on TV a few years ago, until modern treatment became available in the 1950s and all but wiped out TB in developed countries, wheeling patients outside was the standard treatment and it was fairly effective! Patients were wrapped up against the cold (maybe not always well enough, but there was no intention for them to be cold), and breathing fresh air was the objective, and was beneficial. After a long period of such treatment, patients would generally recover.

 

As to the question of the cold narrow boat, I'm sure it's possible if the heating arrangements are not right, but it's entirely possible to get them right. Boats I've been on in cold weather (several different ones) do tend to be too hot close to the stove and rather cool at the far end of the boat, but if proper measures have been taken they don't need to be cold even there. It's always possible to keep warm in bed with a thick enough duvet, or out of it by lurking near the stove and/or wearing the right clothes. And as has been said, it costs a lot less to heat a narrow boat well than a house badly.

 

A boat is indeed often much colder near the floor because there's little insulation from the cold canal water, but the right socks and footwear soon solves that problem.

My father had TB and was whipped off to a sanitorium where they slept 4 to a hut which rotated to face away from the wind (this was in the 40's) he told me one night the wind changed and they all woke up covered in snow.

He was my hero because he had elective surgery to have his effected lung removed so my sister and I weren't infected, he survived to the age of 64.

Phil

ETA the hut only had 3 sides

Edited November 12, 2016 by Phil Ambrose