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Jim Riley

Clarification of a "rule"?

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We have not banned Nick.

 

Nick has been placed on a short-term suspension for 14 days, following multiple warnings to allow the site team time to carry our the actions he and others where asking for, before raising the topics again.

 

If members continue to post disruptive content, cross post between forums and otherwise break the site rules, this will only slow down the progress we are trying to make as a staff team.

 

Everyone one of the team is working around the clock to discuse and implement improvements, around typically busy personal lives, and having half the throughput spent on reviewing threads like this is counter productive.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Sorry, but that is just VERY silly word play.

 

It also means that you've just comprehensively screwed up your terminology with excessive levels;

 

  • Short term suspension
  • Ban
  • Lifetime Ban

If a short term suspension is not the same as a ban, then how is a ban different from a lifetime ban.

 

Nick is currently banned from posting here. Saying "it isn't a ban it is a short term suspension" is just trying to avoid the point that it was a very bad move.

 

The point that you appear to be missing is that no matter how reasonable the reasons for it taking as long as it appears to be taking might be, it is irrelevant. By the time you do anything the forum may well have been damaged beyond all hope of recovery.

 

Yes, you may well rebuild numbers of fluffy bunnies, but the core of people who actually know stuff will have departed and you won't replace them.

 

Sorry to be negative, but from the limited amount you say, you give the impression that you are spending hours trying to work out what small tweaks you can make as a nod to those that you have annoyed, and I rather doubt that it will be enough.

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Sorry, but that is just VERY silly word play.

 

It also means that you've just comprehensively screwed up your terminology with excessive levels;

 

 

  • Short term suspension
  • Ban
  • Lifetime Ban
If a short term suspension is not the same as a ban, then how is a ban different from a lifetime ban.

 

Nick is currently banned from posting here. Saying "it isn't a ban it is a short term suspension" is just trying to avoid the point that it was a very bad move.

 

The point that you appear to be missing is that no matter how reasonable the reasons for it taking as long as it appears to be taking might be, it is irrelevant. By the time you do anything the forum may well have been damaged beyond all hope of recovery.

 

Yes, you may well rebuild numbers of fluffy bunnies, but the core of people who actually know stuff will have departed and you won't replace them.

 

Sorry to be negative, but from the limited amount you say, you give the impression that you are spending hours trying to work out what small tweaks you can make as a nod to those that you have annoyed, and I rather doubt that it will be enough.

Something like this?

 

Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can't, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it.

 

Robert Frost.

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Didn't "NarrowBoatWorld" used to be a discussion forum ?

 

Looks as if CWDF is going the same way, you can ask a question, get an answer but any likelihood of an actual 'discussion' leads to thread closure (or worse)

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Didn't "NarrowBoatWorld" used to be a discussion forum ?

 

Looks as if CWDF is going the same way, you can ask a question, get an answer but any likelihood of an actual 'discussion' leads to thread closure (or worse)

 

NBW did have a discussion forum, but only discussions agreeing with the dear leader's viewpoint were permitted, and criticism of any aspect of the management was banned.

 

Surely that couldn't happen here!

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The point that you appear to be missing is that no matter how reasonable the reasons for it taking as long as it appears to be taking might be, it is irrelevant. By the time you do anything the forum may well have been damaged beyond all hope of recovery.

 

Yes, you may well rebuild numbers of fluffy bunnies, but the core of people who actually know stuff will have departed and you won't replace them.

 

Sorry to be negative, but from the limited amount you say, you give the impression that you are spending hours trying to work out what small tweaks you can make as a nod to those that you have annoyed, and I rather doubt that it will be enough.

At the moment, there are 14 open reports about issues on the forum.

 

10 of them are about how people are discussing this issue. It is very often not civilised discussion, and is taking up the vast majority of time.

 

1 is about Carl's positive and welcomed suggestion- discussions at the moment are around how it could be made to work technically.

 

2 are about how we can use what people are saying to improve the forum.

 

There are also similar numbers of PM threads. One discussing making the forum rules and guidelines much clearer, and two discussing how to improve moderation going forwards, with a code of conduct amongst other things.

 

But there's also 6 open PM threads about the process, and how discussion is being kept on track.

 

At the moment, we're having to spend longer guiding the discussion of changes and explaining what we are doing than we are actually making the changes.

 

Frankly, the more calls there are for, "action this day!" and the more picking apart of individual moderators and their decisions that goes on, all based entirely on unfounded speculation at worst and one side of the story at best, the more and more delayed these changes are getting.

 

Typical example- I've now run out of time now to look through an updated copy of the rules and guidelines and have to go to work, because I've spent the time reading this thread and replying to your comments, to keep this transparent.

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10 of them are about how people are discussing this issue. It is very often not civilised discussion, and is taking up the vast majority of time.

 

 

I find it difficult to believe that 10 people (or 1 person 10 times) felt it necessary to report "uncivilised" behaviour on what has been a remarkably civilised discussion despite the emotive nature of the subject.

 

Perhaps a standard template PM could be sent out such as "Time to put your big boy pants on and stop hassling the mods with vexatious reports" thus saving hours of precious Mod time.

 

Please feel free to put my suggestion on the back burner whilst you sort out those reporters as their need is obviously greater than the forum's as a whole.

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At the moment, there are 14 open reports about issues on the forum.

 

10 of them are about how people are discussing this issue. It is very often not civilised discussion, and is taking up the vast majority of time.

 

1 is about Carl's positive and welcomed suggestion- discussions at the moment are around how it could be made to work technically.

 

2 are about how we can use what people are saying to improve the forum.

 

There are also similar numbers of PM threads. One discussing making the forum rules and guidelines much clearer, and two discussing how to improve moderation going forwards, with a code of conduct amongst other things.

 

But there's also 6 open PM threads about the process, and how discussion is being kept on track.

 

At the moment, we're having to spend longer guiding the discussion of changes and explaining what we are doing than we are actually making the changes.

 

Frankly, the more calls there are for, "action this day!" and the more picking apart of individual moderators and their decisions that goes on, all based entirely on unfounded speculation at worst and one side of the story at best, the more and more delayed these changes are getting.

 

Typical example- I've now run out of time now to look through an updated copy of the rules and guidelines and have to go to work, because I've spent the time reading this thread and replying to your comments, to keep this transparent.

 

Maybe there is a need to 'prioritise' the workload.

 

If, out of 14 'reports', 10 of them are about how people are discussing this issue. It is very often not civilised discussion,, then I'd suggest that these are 'put on the back-burner', By sorting out the actual issues (presumably the other 3 reports) then the problem with folks complaining about the way the forum is run will just 'go away'.

 

Clear out the dead wood

Redefine / rewrite the 'rules' to a relevant and 'adult' level

Apply the rules fairly, and transparently

 

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At the moment, there are 14 open reports about issues on the forum.

 

10 of them are about how people are discussing this issue. It is very often not civilised discussion, and is taking up the vast majority of time.

 

1 is about Carl's positive and welcomed suggestion- discussions at the moment are around how it could be made to work technically.

 

2 are about how we can use what people are saying to improve the forum.

 

There are also similar numbers of PM threads. One discussing making the forum rules and guidelines much clearer, and two discussing how to improve moderation going forwards, with a code of conduct amongst other things.

 

But there's also 6 open PM threads about the process, and how discussion is being kept on track.

 

At the moment, we're having to spend longer guiding the discussion of changes and explaining what we are doing than we are actually making the changes.

 

Frankly, the more calls there are for, "action this day!" and the more picking apart of individual moderators and their decisions that goes on, all based entirely on unfounded speculation at worst and one side of the story at best, the more and more delayed these changes are getting.

 

Typical example- I've now run out of time now to look through an updated copy of the rules and guidelines and have to go to work, because I've spent the time reading this thread and replying to your comments, to keep this transparent.

 

The trouble is that the discussion of the problems are actually VERY civilised indeed. The moderators may not see it that way, because such discussions are, of necessity, going to be critical of moderators actions.

 

Telling us that we don't have the whole story is pointless.

 

The site owner and the moderators HAVE annoyed a lot of people and they are leaving. The fact that they left not knowing the whole story doesn't make them one iota less absent. They are gone.

 

The team is fiddling whilst Rome burns, apparently finessing a new version of the rules that will be pointless when it emerges, and all the while failing to take the urgent step that is needed. You need to say "look guys, we got this wrong. The ever more draconian approach was a monumentally bad way to go, and we are scrapping it. New, simpler and more reasonable rules will be written, and bans unjustified under the new rules revoked."

 

Everything you say suggests that the new rules are just minor tweaks, rather than substantial change, and in the meantime you continue to ban members and make allusions that there is more to this than people can see.

 

I know that if I was Nick, and this innuendo was being posted about me by the mods, I would be talking to a solicitor by now.

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At the moment, there are 14 open reports about issues on the forum.

10 of them are about how people are discussing this issue. It is very often not civilised discussion, and is taking up the vast majority of time.

t.

surely as you (mods) are monitoring this thread anyway it would be quickly apparent whether any post broke whatever the forum rules are today. I have seen little evidence of uncivilised discussions on this thread and several valid comments where time might be spent discussing the implications.

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these pantless mod-botherers

 

.

What a marvellous description of subversives! Have a greeno.

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What a marvellous description of subversives! Have a greeno.

What a marvellous description of subversives! Have a greeno.

Could also apply to fluffy people reporting posts they don't like

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The site owner and the moderators HAVE annoyed a lot of people and they are leaving.

And on the other hand long standing and respected CWDFers have stopped posting. They have not 'crossed the road' but they feel the sustained actions of some members have hade this forum an unfriendly place at the moment.

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And on the other hand long standing and respected CWDFers have stopped posting. They have not 'crossed the road' but they feel the sustained actions of some members have hade this forum an unfriendly place at the moment.

 

Can you expand on this please as it's a bit cryptic.

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And on the other hand long standing and respected CWDFers have stopped posting. They have not 'crossed the road' but they feel the sustained actions of some members have hade this forum an unfriendly place at the moment.

Yes you are absolutely right.

 

That's why the problems need sorting to stop the exodus.

 

There is room for everyone.

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Can you expand on this please as it's a bit cryptic.

Seems pretty clear to me. Some of the most long standing posters with the highest number of posts have been conspicuously absent for the last week or two. It's not hard to work out who I'm referring to. I can't say I blame them.

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And on the other hand long standing and respected CWDFers have stopped posting. They have not 'crossed the road' but they feel the sustained actions of some members have hade this forum an unfriendly place at the moment.

 

It is undoubtedly true that some people feel unable to cope with the cut and thrust of any kind of free discussion, and that they eventually leave when it proves impossible to create the hyper-controlled space that they feel they need.

 

Now, it is undoubtedly true that these are nice people, they are well liked and it would be lovely to keep them on board.

 

The problem is that it is just the kind of robust (without being aggressive or shouty) discussion that they want excluded from the forum than keeps a forum going. Look at Just Canals (currently no registered users and 2 guests - including me looking at it).

 

Sure we can create this forum in the image of Just Canals, and the delicate flowers will be pleased that there is no acrimony ever, until they notice that there is nothing interesting either. The slightly robust characters went first, then the less robust but interesting characters who enjoyed the cut and thrust that went on, until the forum progresses into a grey obscurity.

 

Yes, we need to avoid excessive rudeness and silly conflict, but oversanitise and the forum dies,

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It is undoubtedly true that some people feel unable to cope with the cut and thrust of any kind of free discussion, and that they eventually leave when it proves impossible to create the hyper-controlled space that they feel they need.

Precisely why we need a sub-forum that they need never visit, properly moderated.

 

Nobody wants a return to the time in Feb/March when people with polarised views were just flinging abusive profanities at each other but, equally, many want a return to adult, intelligent, sometimes heated debate.

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I can't see any evidence of sanitising anything in recent weeks. I've never sat here in an ankle length skirt running searches for naughty words and asking people to be 'nice'. On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind? Not enough kindness in the world. And the amount of dishonest, toxic, energy sapping uneccesary drama, relentless bitching, rumour spreading, singling out and cross examining, bullshit about a bloody Facebook convo that I didn't know existed, bullshit about a supposed blacklist, bullshit about us supposedly being in bed with CRT, all of that, people lying to their mates who then believe them, which then makes the site staff look like dicks. Enough. I'm not participating in this pointless bollocks anymore. I'm off. There's better things to do in my spare time than waste it monitoring keyboard drama. It's getting really boring. Not only that, people are getting hurt by this and this is no good at all. Im not necessarily referring to the site crew when I say that. It is that toxic. To Dan, I care about you and wish you every success with the site, to those who are going to take the baton and sort this out. You are awesome also. But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

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I can't see any evidence of sanitising anything in recent weeks. I've never sat here in an ankle length skirt running searches for naughty words and asking people to be 'nice'. On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind? Not enough kindness in the world. And the amount of dishonest, toxic, energy sapping uneccesary drama, relentless bitching, rumour spreading, singling out and cross examining, bullshit about a bloody Facebook convo that I didn't know existed, bullshit about a supposed blacklist, bullshit about us supposedly being in bed with CRT, all of that, people lying to their mates who then believe them, which then makes the site staff look like dicks. Enough. I'm not participating in this pointless bollocks anymore. I'm off. There's better things to do in my spare time than waste it monitoring keyboard drama. It's getting really boring. Not only that, people are getting hurt by this and this is no good at all. Im not necessarily referring to the site crew when I say that. It is that toxic. To Dan, I care about you and wish you every success with the site, to those who are going to take the baton and sort this out. You are awesome also. But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

 

Perfectly understandable in the current situation - things do seem to be a bit upside-down at the moment. Thank you for all your hard work over the past years as site staff, and hopefully you will continue to post as an ordinary member, where your contributions on boating matters were valuable.

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But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

I completely understand this reaction but am sorry to see you go.

 

If anything I have said has caused you to leave then I apologise unreservedly.

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I can't see any evidence of sanitising anything in recent weeks. I've never sat here in an ankle length skirt running searches for naughty words and asking people to be 'nice'. On the other hand what is wrong with wanting to be kind? Not enough kindness in the world. And the amount of dishonest, toxic, energy sapping uneccesary drama, relentless bitching, rumour spreading, singling out and cross examining, bullshit about a bloody Facebook convo that I didn't know existed, bullshit about a supposed blacklist, bullshit about us supposedly being in bed with CRT, all of that, people lying to their mates who then believe them, which then makes the site staff look like dicks. Enough. I'm not participating in this pointless bollocks anymore. I'm off. There's better things to do in my spare time than waste it monitoring keyboard drama. It's getting really boring. Not only that, people are getting hurt by this and this is no good at all. Im not necessarily referring to the site crew when I say that. It is that toxic. To Dan, I care about you and wish you every success with the site, to those who are going to take the baton and sort this out. You are awesome also. But I know it's time for me to go. So. Bye x

Well I am sorry to see you go and sorry this has caused you so much aggro, truly sorry

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