Cyclists Rant

[furnessvale]

Police stated at the time that it was premeditated attempted murder (section 1(1) of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981). Tieing a rope or wire at neck height across a road or path at neck height is both deliberately and having a spectfic intention to cause the death of human by decapitation.

Yes, even the police can at times get carried away with terminology.

 

"Premeditated" can have an effect on what sentence a judge may impose but under English law "intent" is the thing to look at.

 

Interesting that they mentioned attempted murder, probably the hardest offence to prove in English law.

 

To prove murder you need to prove that the accused intended to kill OR seriously injure the victim.

 

To prove attempted murder you need to prove the the intent was to kill, nothing less will do, and for whatever reason the attempt failed.

 

In the case of your friend, attempted murder is a good starting point but even then, it is the devil's own job to prove the intent.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[MHS]

When moored in Sale recently we experienced the huge number of commuting cyclists heading for Manchester at rush hour.

 

It's not the sheer number or speed of the cyclists that is the issue. It's the fact that as they approach you from behind, the "Ting" that they give you, gives you about half a second to turn, choose which way to move and then actually do it.

 

Why do they wait til they're 5 metres behind you?

[magnetman]

I discussed this with someone a while ago and he told me that people engaged in jogging or moderately high speed cycling have a very small attention area. This means that they can only perform basic hazard avoidance in the immediate vicinity of their location because the amount of brainpower it takes to perform running or cycling substantially reduces the resources available for other activities.

 

So its possible that they actually don't "see" the walkers as a hazard until the last minute. Or they are just complete <insert own word here>s.

 

Sounds ridiculous but apparently there have been some studies on it. For this reason I believe there should be a cycle speed limit controlled by volunteer towpath rangers in busier areas.

 

Time a cyclist between bridges and calculate average speed. If too high then order them off the path.

 

Will anyone volunteer for this

Edited July 16, 2016 by magnetman

[magnetman]

 

 

I actually had an idiotic woman runner trip herself up and nearly fall in the canal when I was walking with a 3 year old child. The child did not do anything that is unusual but the runner insisted on continuing her high speed past me the misses and the walking child on a path about 5 feet wide. When she suddenly realised the hazard she performed a very bizarre avoidance maneououver resulting in her tripping over her own foot. Fortunately she did not fall on my daughter.

 

This leads me to believe that the attention area story is quite probably true.

Why they can't just slow down i do not know

[Chalky]

 

Why do they wait til they're 5 metres behind you?

Probably because most pedestrians seem to be using personal stereos or are on the phone and can't hear you from any further away. I've followed pedestrians on my bike for considerable distances politely ringing the bell. It's only when you pass them that they realise you're there. There are dangerous/dopey pedestrians out there as well as dangerous cyclists...

[GUMPY]

There are times when being 17st+ and able to block the towpath by just standing there has its advantages.

Worst thing BW did was get rid of the "cyclists licence" it even gave the riders insurance which most wont have in case of an accident.

[Bunny]

There are times when being 17st+ and able to block the towpath by just standing there has its advantages.

Worst thing BW did was get rid of the "cyclists licence" it even gave the riders insurance which most wont have in case of an accident.

Can't see what's wrong with my 15 and a half stone pulling a 62ft boat into the bank with a middle line. Why should I stop what I'm doing, doesn't take much effort for a cyclist to dis mount and walk round me if they don't want to wait a minute or two .

I do find the speed freaks very intimidating, especially their ' your in MY way ' attitude . How dare you be a pedestrian walking with children or dogs on their speed way. Doesn't even enter their crash helmeted tiny brains that they could hurt an animal or child and even if they did , tough ... should have moved out of the bikes way a bit quicker.

Let alone someone like me who is partial deaf ... no not selective , but very hard of hearing with tinnitus as well . If I want to walk, my husband cruises behind and blows the horn when he see a bike speedy up behind .

Even if someone rings their bell which side should you step to get out of the way . All very frustrating .Bunny .

[wishful]

There are times when being 17st+ and able to block the towpath by just standing there has its advantages.

Worst thing BW did was get rid of the "cyclists licence" it even gave the riders insurance which most wont have in case of an accident.

I would imagine that being 17st+ also makes you harder to kidnap.

[MHS]

Probably because most pedestrians seem to be using personal stereos or are on the phone and can't hear you from any further away. I've followed pedestrians on my bike for considerable distances politely ringing the bell. It's only when you pass them that they realise you're there. There are dangerous/dopey pedestrians out there as well as dangerous cyclists...

A very good point.

It is true that many people now have no idea of their surroundings. Approaching cars, other pedestrians, cyclists, potential muggers etc.

 

I prefer to listen to birdsong than music when walking.

[Murflynn]

What pisses me off is that many footpaths and towpaths have now been included in the 'national cycle network', giving the lycra louts the idea that they have a god-given (or in the Bristol area a red-trousered given right) to ride at silly speeds, endangering or at the very least making it uncomfortable for other footpath users, particularly elderly people with limited hearing and/or vision. I admit to being on the cusp of being in the latter category.

 

One good example of this is the footpath running alongside the tidal Avon between Bristol and Pill. On a Sunday morning walk, I find that perhaps 25% of cyclists slow down and give some warning of their approach, the remainder clearly delight in their skill at racing up unannounced, scaring the sh*t out of people trying to take a relaxing walk.

[Pie Eater]

My advice to the grandkids on any canal walk is to stand completely still if they hear or see a cyclist.

 

I think that they are more likely to be hurt if they suddenly move to one side for a cyclist especially one approaching from behind.

 

Steve

[Rendelf]

As someone who cycles regularly on towpaths, I always ring my bell from a considerable distance to let pedestrians know I'm there. I also slow right down past boats, mostly because I live on one... I have yet to understand the point of lycra - isn't it like a swimmer shaving their legs?

 

What I notice is the when people hear the bell, they do often jump...and seem pleasantly surprised (or confused) when I pootle past them at walking pace and say hello. I've tried using my voice instead of a bell: "Hi! I'm behind you on a bike"...which works at close range, but not over distance.

 

Most pedestrians will move over to the hedgerow side of the path - which makes complete sense.

 

The narrowed attention span thing is perhaps true, but unlikely to be the cause of the numpties who get right up behind you before ringing, or even the ones who don't have a bell, but assume pedestrians are prescient!

 

As to simply ignoring someone on a bike, who has every right to be there (so long as they are exhibiting some form of empathy toward their fellow humans).....I'm not sure I see the point. All that will happen is the cyclist will fire their laser cannons, or possibly jump of and walk past you - but most of the paths aren't wide enough for this, so you'll have to move over anyway. It is a shared space.

 

Agree that there should be a speed limit in built up areas....

 

 

 

Do the pedestrians have any suggestions for safe ways to pass?

Edited July 16, 2016 by Rendelf

[Jerra]

Do the pedestrians have any suggestions for safe ways to pass?

As an elderly and fairly deaf ex cyclist. make a lot of noise from quite a long way back and be prepared for 1) getting off and walking past because I haven't heard you and 2) me stepping across in front of you to look at some object of nature I have spotted.

[Jess--]

one trick I have used in the past to make others aware of me being on a bike without having to ring a bell or call out was to deliberately mis-adjust the gears so that they rattled, everyone just assumes you're an idiot that can't set gears up.

 

 

in general when I'm on a bike I treat pedestrians as a brick wall and slow down as I approach them to ensure I can stop if there is no clear path (or they step into my path)

[boathunter]

It's the same in Cambridge city centre, I gave up going there at all due to high speed cyclists in the pedestrian areas.

[zenataomm]

I nearly deprived the world permanently of some highly educated young woman in Cambridge.

 

While driving through the city centre she suddenly entered the main road I was on without looking, and progressed across into my lane. After wobbling around for a couple of yards she removed one hand form the handlebar in order to search for her mobile phone and managed to get her flowing bat cape around the chain.

Her phone ended up under my wheels, which I considered a success considering the alternative, she apparently did not. However my Mandarin isn't what it used to be so I can't be sure what she called me.

 

I think education is a wonderful thing, and should be wasted at every opportunity.

[Murflynn]

 

 

 

in general when I'm on a bike I treat pedestrians as a brick wall and slow down as I approach them to ensure I can stop if there is no clear path (or they step into my path)

brick walls don't move unexpectedly.

 

better you consider pedestrians as loony mobile unpredictable and delicate pieces of valuable porcelain

It's the same in Cambridge city centre, I gave up going there at all due to high speed cyclists in the pedestrian areas.

when exactly was the law changed to allow cyclists to ride on the pavement?

 

the only brush with the law that I suffered as a young cyclist was for doing just that, at 9pm in a quiet residential area when everyone was tucked up inside.

[Chalky]

I nearly deprived the world permanently of some highly educated young woman in Cambridge.

 

While driving through the city centre she suddenly entered the main road I was on without looking, and progressed across into my lane. After wobbling around for a couple of yards she removed one hand form the handlebar in order to search for her mobile phone and managed to get her flowing bat cape around the chain.

Her phone ended up under my wheels, which I considered a success considering the alternative, she apparently did not. However my Mandarin isn't what it used to be so I can't be sure what she called me.

 

I think education is a wonderful thing, and should be wasted at every opportunity.

We have a large number of Chinese students at our local University. The first month of the academic year is "interesting" as they discover that UK road traffic responds differently from what they're used to.

[Guest]

 

when exactly was the law changed to allow cyclists to ride on the pavement?

 

 

ISTR some local authorities have put in place rules that allow for it in specific locations though it's by no means universal.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

when exactly was the law changed to allow cyclists to ride on the pavement?

 

the only brush with the law that I suffered as a young cyclist was for doing just that, at 9pm in a quiet residential area when everyone was tucked up inside.

 

 

ISTR some local authorities have put in place rules that allow for it in specific locations though it's by no means universal.

Yes, I have noted as a boater, pedestrian and a cyclist it is becoming increasingly common for local authorities to create 'shared space' cycle lanes on the footpaths. As a cyclist I don't really like it since it just mixes up cyclists with pedestrians with its inherent risks. There is however as a cyclist no way of 'winning' since if I use these crap 'cycle lanes' the pedestrians complain (with some justification) but if I choose to ignore them and ride on the road the motorists shout out, "Why don't you use the cycle lane" which usually elicits the reply from me, "Cos I don't effing want to " (Sorry, short fuse )

[Rendelf]

Cycling on the road is stressful and dangerous. The cyclist is exposed to some quite real risks, and depending on where the road is, some ridiculous ones. There are 'cycle lanes' on dual carriageways....simply because there is no other route.

 

As someone who's been riding as a main form of transport for 20 years, I will always chose the path that involves the least cars, or failing that, the lowest speed limit. This includes towpaths, which are an absolute pleasure to ride along, without the constant need for vigilance on what's about to knock you down on this corner, or fail to give way to you at that roundabout.

 

I think the main problem isn't the weird combination of a desire to wear lycra and a lack of sense/empathy to other people, but one of infrastructure. There simply isn't anywhere to ride a bicycle as soon as you leave city centres. And even in the centres, its perilous (for motorists as well as cyclists).

 

Have any of you ridden in Melbourne? They have a wonderful, purpose-built network of off-road paths. So relaxing to use, with no fear. Quick too, you can travel across most of the city without being on a road - better for everyone involved. Of course, the Aussies have spare cash, and they also have modern, spaced out cities....but still.

[patty-ann]

Drove across the Gower yesterday as cycle event in progress...dunno about pedestrians but some car drivers got awfully stressed out with wobbly weavers..danger on the narrow winding roads for all..of course Welsh Mist and rain really enhanced their day.

 

I walked the towpath trail along to Victoria Park from Angel in London several weeks ago...horrific experience with the lycra clad speedsters taking ownership of canalside paths..I believe complete no go for those on foot during "rush hour" and lunch times. Cyclists have to get from a to b but should slow down not just shout "cyclist" and expect Jo Public to jump.

 

Little sis cycling from Amsterdam to Vienna along mainly cycle routes..she says continent have got it right.

[Jerra]

the Aussies have spare cash, and they also have modern, spaced out cities....but still.

Perhaps more importantly they have a lot more land to be able to space things out and fit in these cycleways.

[Guest]

Perhaps more importantly they have a lot more land to be able to space things out and fit in these cycleways.

 

Isn't that what was meant by the words 'spaced out'?

[Jerra]

 

Isn't that what was meant by the words 'spaced out'?

Cities can be spaced out without being able to afford the land for cycle ways. I was in Edinburgh at the weekend and was marveling at the width of some of the roads built probably more than a century ago. Spaced out but no room for a cycleway as there were rows of parked cars up each side of the road reducing it to normal road width.

 

Even when these roads were built I doubt land was sufficiently cheap to build extra pathways (cycle or pedestrian). Coupled with for all we know cycling will be a passing fad, when I was a boy everybody cycled they couldn't afford cars. Along came a sociological change and everybody moved to cars.

 

Suppose we no had the resources and desire and carved out cycleways all over the place do we know the effort and cost would have been worth it when viewed in 50 - 60 years time.

 

Returning to when I was a boy Carlisle had a cycleway when you entered the city from the west. They were a road width tarmac strip on the outside of each road. By the 70s/80s they were access roads to the houses they ran in front of because they weren't used enough.

 

Couple that with costs would the modern day cyclist be prepared to have a "bike number" (like a car number) and pay towards these cycleways as the system of "Car Tax" originally was supposed to do?

 

Despite having been a keen cyclist all my life until health and age caught up I feel the modern cyclist rather wants things handed to them on a plate. A sort of "I have started cycling and I don't like the conditions I have to cycle in, somebody should do something about it" attitude.

 

Just my opinion and it will be unpopular I know.