Lock etiquette

[Bee]

Comes into the category of stuff happens, Usually leave ratchet engaged but haven't really got any rules. Most gear is unsophisticated and basic and sometimes doesn't work as well as it might. Winding a paddle a few years ago on a wet and horrible day my hands slipped off the windlass, the ratchet failed to engage and the windlass caught my arm, didn't half hurt. Out of hundreds of locks it was bound to happen one day.

[Tacet]

Technique errors:

 

1. When winding a windlass no part of your body should enter the space described by the arc of the windlass at any time.

 

 

Including hands, wrists and forearms? Sound difficult.

[magictime]

Surely the OP is the obvious case in point. The injured party was expecting the catch to be down, it wasn't, but because it usually is she didn't check because she didn't perceive a need to check.

 

For the sake of argument, then, let's assume that she really had become complacent because she'd got so used to finding the catch down (and didn't fail to check for some other reason, e.g. inexperience/rustiness or distraction). We've now identified one person who would have avoided injury on one particular occasion if, on a substantial proportion of previous occasions, she hadn't found the catch down.

 

We still don't know:

 

(1) whether she'd have avoided injury on all those previous occasions;

 

(2) whether her failure to check the catch on this occasion through complacency is at all typical, or whether in most similar incidents the failure to check is a result of other factors such as inexperience, poor/incomplete advice or training, or distraction;

 

And if we did know those things, there'd still be a case to be made for individual lock users treating complacency as a foreseeable risk rather than something they should be trying to shake people out of by leaving the catch off after using a lock, at least until enough people are on board that a 'critical mass' can be achieved - e.g. if CRT can be persuaded to advise that catches be left off.

[Mike Todd]

Almost all of the advice assumes that the pawl works correctly. In a non-trivial number of cases that is not so. In particular, even if flipped over to the on position, wear or stiffness mean that it does not fully engage. Sometimes, it can start to engage but then lift off either upwards or, as I have seen occasionally, sideways.

 

For me, it always a part of the procedure (a) listen to the ratchet as you wind and ( rel;ease slowly until you feel the weight taken in case it has not been.

 

I doubt whether there are than many boaters around who have not been caught out at some time, however! My worst 'bang' was on the GU with the candlestick paddles which, of course, do not have pawls. Other oddities exist as well.

[Loafer]

Blimey.

 

Just show everyone how to work a lock properly, and just let them all get on with it!

[magictime]

Blimey.

 

Just show everyone how to work a lock properly, and just let them all get on with it!

 

Ah, but apparently there's some dispute as to whether 'working a lock properly' includes putting the catch back on after winding down a paddle (just in case the next user fails to check), or leaving it off (to help people learn that they have to check).

 

Yes, it seems a bit odd to me, too.

[Keeping Up]

 

Ah, but apparently there's some dispute as to whether 'working a lock properly' includes putting the catch back on after winding down a paddle (just in case the next user fails to check), or leaving it off (to help people learn that they have to check).

 

Yes, it seems a bit odd to me, too.

 

It's not only to help people learn that they have to check - it's also to help ensure taht the paddle is able to close fully (the water loss due to it being partly open can be a safety hazard in itself)

[Loafer]

Do these people need to be told how to hold their knives and forks, too?

[magictime]

 

It's not only to help people learn that they have to check - it's also to help ensure taht the paddle is able to close fully (the water loss due to it being partly open can be a safety hazard in itself)

 

Yes, fair enough on that point, if on balance the risk of water leakage is more significant than the risk of injury to lock users. I don't know if it is or not, and as so often we seem to be arguing in an evidential vacuum.

[Keeping Up]

 

Yes, fair enough on that point, if on balance the risk of water leakage is more significant than the risk of injury to lock users. I don't know if it is or not, and as so often we seem to be arguing in an evidential vacuum.

 

There have been a several instances of boats hanging their bows up on the cill and then sinking while attempting to ascend a lock which had excessive leakage at the bottom - especially on the Huddersfield Narrow (it very nearly happened to us once).

 

ETA for clarification; first you find you can't open the top gates, then you realise the level inside the lock has dropped so that the bow is on the cill, then you realise you can't get the boat back off the cill and that the level is still dropping as the short pound to the next lock drains away. Eventually the stern of the boat goes under and anybody inside the boat gets drowned.It only takes a couple of minutes to become a potential disaster; and that is what I call a safety hazard!

Edited February 23, 2016 by Keeping Up

[magictime]

Do these people need to be told how to hold their knives and forks, too?

 

I sneak into people's kitchens late at night, sharpen all their knives and loosen the handles so that they learn not to be complacent about the risks involved in handling blades.

[Loafer]

Good thing too.

[Arthur Marshall]

I think you'll find that people with pump-out toilets always put the pawl back, and those with bucket & chuck it don't.

[magictime]

 

There have been a several instances of boats hanging their bows up on the cill and then sinking while attempting to ascend a lock which had excessive leakage at the bottom - especially on the Huddersfield Narrow (it very nearly happened to us once).

 

OK - do we know if this excessive leaking was caused by the catch on the winding gear preventing the paddles from closing fully?

 

It's a good point, though - just goes to show that leakage is a safety issue too.

[Jerra]

Do these people need to be told how to hold their knives and forks, too?

I do believe everybody was told how to use knives and forks at some point in their lives - generally as babies/toddlers. The same applies to boaters some learn young others don't come across the need until later and then yes they do need shown.

[Keeping Up]

 

OK - do we know if this excessive leaking was caused by the catch on the winding gear preventing the paddles from closing fully?

 

It's a good point, though - just goes to show that leakage is a safety issue too.

 

No, in these cases the leakage was due to faulty or badly worn paddle gear. However the effect is the same.

[Athy]

I think you'll find that people with pump-out toilets always put the pawl back, and those with bucket & chuck it don't.

Oh yes I do, you cheeky monkey.

[Guest]

When I used to drop paddles I used to let them fall under the power of gravity, braked by by my hand wrapped around the spindle.

 

Yes I know often seen as bad boatmanship in some circles.

 

I then used to attach the windlass and give two or three firm tugs in a downward direction to ensure the paddle was down.

 

Then flip the pawl over....

 

Beyond that what you do to ensure a paddle is fully down is anybodies guess..

[David Mack]

Almost all of the advice assumes that the pawl works correctly. In a non-trivial number of cases that is not so. In particular, even if flipped over to the on position, wear or stiffness mean that it does not fully engage. Sometimes, it can start to engage but then lift off either upwards or, as I have seen occasionally, sideways.

 

For me, it always a part of the procedure (a) listen to the ratchet as you wind and ( rel;ease slowly until you feel the weight taken in case it has not been.

 

Indeed. When I started boating a lot of paddle gear was in a much more worn state than it is now, and it was common to find pawls which didn't naturally take the load when you released the pressure on the windlass handle, they would quite often slip to one side or jump over the ratchet teeth. So I learnt to always wind the handle back slowly until I could see and feel that the pawl had taken the load. And then immediately take the windlass off the spindle, so that if it did subsequently slip, then nobody was faced with a flying windlass (which would probably end up in the cut anyway). It wasn't uncommon for the slightest knock, such as the boat touching the gate, to cause the paddle to drop if the gear was badly worn.

Similarly spindles were often badly worn - I can remember a few which weren't far off round - and so it was essential to put the pawl on first, so that if anything slipped while you were winding the paddle up, it would (subject to the pawl engaging) only drop a little.

[blackrose]

Probably. What is worrying is the increasing tendency for folk to feel that if something has gone wrong, it must be somebody else's fault. Ok the OP doesn't specifically say this, but it is the implication.

That may be your inference, but it wasn't mine. To me the OP was simply asking a question without any implication regarding blame.

 

After I lower the paddle I always set the ratchet ready for the next person. Seems like common courtesy to me. It's like holding a door open for someone, there's no rule about it but it costs nothing to do.

 

But the bottom line is that locks are left in all sorts of states by previous users, so as others have said, it's up to users to check for themselves.

Edited February 24, 2016 by blackrose

[furnessvale]

When I used to drop paddles I used to let them fall under the power of gravity, braked by by my hand wrapped around the spindle.

 

Yes I know often seen as bad boatmanship in some circles.

 

I then used to attach the windlass and give two or three firm tugs in a downward direction to ensure the paddle was down.

 

Then flip the pawl over....

 

Beyond that what you do to ensure a paddle is fully down is anybodies guess..

Even doing all that, laudable as it is, is not a 100% guarantee that the paddle is fully down, and flipping the pawl back on is a virtual guarantee that if the paddle is not 100% down, it never will be.

 

The final check you missed is to look at the rack and check that it is fully down in the grease marks on the rubbing plate. So often, the paddle rod catches on the stonework of the gate recess, holding the paddle up. Putting the pawl on without that final check ensures the paddle stays up.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[junior]

I assume pawls have been in use since the beginning on lock mechanisms. I quite often hear people refer to pawls as 'safety catches'. Do we really think that over 200 years ago the think were fitted as 'safety catches' to prevent the boatmen having to ring InjuryLawyersForYou.com first thing Monday morning?

 

Personally I think they were just a device for holding open the paddle. Therefore when the paddle is closed the device is not in place. If I want to open a paddle I engage the paddle holding open device.

 

As I approach a paddle spindle I visually look if the pawl is in place. If for any reason I fail to do so, then subconsciously I notice the absence of the 'clicky' noise.

If for any reason I was in a flying windlass situation my thought process would be something like "what a twat". Not, " damn the last person to use this lock and not put the pawl in place".

 

Anyone following me down a flight will find the pawls off and will continue to do so until I stop finding paddles left up a couple of inches with the pawls in place.

[Guest]

Even doing all that, laudable as it is, is not a 100% guarantee that the paddle is fully down, and flipping the pawl back on is a virtual guarantee that if the paddle is not 100% down, it never will be.

 

The final check you missed is to look at the rack and check that it is fully down in the grease marks on the rubbing plate. So often, the paddle rod catches on the stonework of the gate recess, holding the paddle up. Putting the pawl on without that final check ensures the paddle stays up.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

If the paddle hasn't fully lowered with a couple of good tugs then there is something wrong with it anyway. Yes I would visually chech too but there is a limit to how much you can be expected to ensure its closed before you leave the lock.

 

I do recall few occasions that paddles didn't fully go down but could sea it was crap caught in it which either fell out when I raised the paddle again or needed me on a couple of occasions to fetch the boat hook.

[colinwilks]

I'll often use a top paddle to stop the boat on the cill. This needs you to be able to move the paddle up and down quite quickly and so for the pawl to be off.

 

I'd vote to leave pawls off if it prevents CRT putting any more little brackets on that mean you have to hold the pawl off with one hand.

 

I cannot see how having to flick the pawl over adds significantly to the lock operator's work load, and it has the advantage of making the operator observe the mechanism rather than just shoving the windlass on and winding away.

 

There is a safety aspect here as well since it means the operator understands the pawl's action and so is better placed to drop the paddles in an emergency.

[dave moore]

Hear, hear Junior!!

The wittering astounds me!

 

Dave