Thin flue Pipe and terrible Asthma

[cutsurfer]

I am looking for some advice one a less than perfect situation.

 

I spent my summer doing up a narrowboat that I now live on as a continuous cruiser, however the Stove now seems to be giving me grief in making my Asthma unbearable and I have recently been travelling back to my parents just to breath.

 

There seems to be really differing schools of thought on this, but I seem to have a theory of what may be happening.

 

My stove seems to have a decent draw (bare in mind I have nothing to compare this to as it's my first stove) but As the flue Pipe I have used is vitreous enamel and barely a mm thick I wondered whether as I shut it down for the night, after sometime (in the early hours I pressume) the flue may be cooling due to it's lack of thickness and letting some of the gases drop and enter the room via the tiny gaps in the vents.

 

The chap at my local chandlery is really helpful and believes that if it's not setting any of my co2 alarms off then it's probably nothing to worry about and is not convinced that changing my flue will work but suggested changing coal instead. He also handed me a smoke test match to test for any leaks but I think this is unlikely as I sealed everything as best I could.

 

In another local stove shop the bloke at the desk practically threw a catalogue in my face and said 'nothing less than this £800 double insulated flue would do', I left as briskly as I entered.

 

If anyone has any experience of breathing troubles or flue pipe tekkers and knowledge I would really like to hear it as I desperately want to stay on my boat.

 

thanks,

Pete

[Sea Dog]

Neither of us has asthma, but we certainly notice the difference between types of coal. We really can't do Taybrite for example without coughing and getting 'chesty', simply through normal fuelling and emptying the huge quantities of ash it generates. Don't know whether that helps?

[bizzard]

It might be exhaust from a gas cooker or even fumes from the toilet in a confined space causing the problem.

[sueb]

You may find it is the fire you can't tolerate. Can you try other forms of heating?get a short term mooring and try an electric heater.

[John V]

I have slight asthma and it is worse when using solid fuel (but fortunately I don't suffer badly),

It does seem that the amounts of smoke needed to trigger it can be tiny.

Because I am recovering from a major operation this winter and not able to carry solid fuel around, I am using a diesel central heating system where the exhaust is through the funnel (a long way from the accommodation areas) so there is no fumes at all in the boat.

I found the other day that I was wheezing a bit and realised that I was getting a tiny bit of smoke blowing from a neighbouring boat that was coming in my ventilators.

Could it be that your chimney fumes are re entering the boat via a window ?

[cutsurfer]

Thankyou all for the replies so far. It only seems to be triggered when the stove is on the go, it does seem more-so when burning coal than wood.

 

I do shut up all windows nice and tight.

 

Money is an issue so cruising is all my budget is allowing for at the mo, but I suspect an electric heater or alternative would alleviate it.

 

I still wonder if it may be down to the flue. Has anybody else used a flue that is only about a mm thick, is this a very daft thing I have done on istallation? I'm guessing it would effect the draw.

[Sea Dog]

As long as it is undamaged and properly sealed, I can't see why flue wall thickness would make a difference. It's also probably proprietary equipment so there's likely to be many installations like yours. The best way to be sure about your installation would be to have a suitably qualified professional take a look at it. You may have to pay a little, but you'll sleep better for it.

[cutsurfer]

SEA DOG- Yeh I think you're right, it would be nice to have someone give it the OK. I was under the impression a hot flue was key to a good draught and pulling all the crud up and out of the chimney and so wondered if this stuff was so thin that as the coal was on it's last legs in the morning whether the flue was cooling and the gas dropping slightly causing a few more fumes than usual...if that makes sense?

[Phil Ambrose]

My wife has COPD and is very susceptible to all manner of fumes etc but has no particular issue from our stove. I burn Taybright, does not in my mind produce excessive ash but I always have a "hot" fire and keep it burning through the night albeit throttled back a bit, so maybe try burning your fire a bit hotter. I aim for a small hot fire if weather is not too cold, moving on to a medium hot fire if colder and them if really cold a big hot fire.

I know a lot of people bank up fires if it's warmish but that just produces a lot of smoke which my fire never does, after all smoke is unburnt fuel and can give issues with tar

Phil

[David Mack]

The best way to be sure about your installation would be to have a suitably qualified professional take a look at it. You may have to pay a little, but you'll sleep better for it.

And if it is leaking CO you might sleep A LOT better!

[cutsurfer]

Phil- Thanks , I totally agree on this, I've been getting the stove super hot to try and avoid any slow smouldering and a real strong burn to avoid smoke Then add coal for the night and partially shut it down just before bed.

 

David- Doesn't bare thinking about, I have about three co2 detectors around the stove! I like my sleep, but not that much!!!

[Giant]

Are you allergic to anything?

 

I've had mild asthma since I was a kid and it never really bothered me except if exercising pretty hard, at which point I'd get short of breath without an inhaler. Then all of a sudden it started getting triggered by allergies too - thought it was just pollen at first, as I'd always got hayfever. Then it kept going in the winter. Had some tests done and turned out to be very allergic to dust mites.

 

New type of inhaler helped, so has putting in a HEPA air purifier on the boat which we did just recently.

 

Edit to add: I get it worst in the small hours too - doctor said that's very common. Same for me on land with gas central heating. So my guess would be it's nothing to do with the stove cooling off at night.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Giant

[cutsurfer]

thanks Giant an air purifier is definitely worth a shot!! I didn't even know such a thing existed, I wonder if they do a 12volt or battery powered one.

[Taslim]

I run an elderly, slightly leaky, Morso with a stainless steel fiue that is paper thin and is still good after many years. I burn anything from pallets to anthracite. Whatever is to hand.

 

Over time people have stayed over who were said to have respiratory probs but have had no reactors....... Yet!!

 

I don't think it is the flue but wonder about ventilation. You said you renovated the boat over Summer. Did you close off any door vents? In your post #6 you said you closed the windows tight.

 

I always leave a window open, even if only a very little, at night and have plenty of low level air flow. I must mend that cat flap one day.

 

I go with Phil A (#9) on fire management.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Interestingly at Bovington Tank Museum they said that early tank crews often died of carbon monoxide poisoning due to cracked exhausts. Just like the leaking exhausts on some boats. A double skinned flue would keep warmer and an air purifier using static would work.

[MtB]

And if it is leaking CO you might sleep A LOT better!

 

 

Yes, given the OP said he only has CO2 monitors...

 

[Starcoaster]

Is it not as likely to be the coal dust in the boat as fumes from the stove? However finnicky you are about riddling and disposing of ash, I find that in the winter all of my surfaces get coated in ash and dust every week if I don't wipe them, which never happens in the summer when the stove is off.

[BlueStringPudding]

I am looking for some advice one a less than perfect situation.

 

I spent my summer doing up a narrowboat that I now live on as a continuous cruiser, however the Stove now seems to be giving me grief in making my Asthma unbearable and I have recently been travelling back to my parents just to breath.

 

There seems to be really differing schools of thought on this, but I seem to have a theory of what may be happening.

 

My stove seems to have a decent draw (bare in mind I have nothing to compare this to as it's my first stove) but As the flue Pipe I have used is vitreous enamel and barely a mm thick I wondered whether as I shut it down for the night, after sometime (in the early hours I pressume) the flue may be cooling due to it's lack of thickness and letting some of the gases drop and enter the room via the tiny gaps in the vents.

 

The chap at my local chandlery is really helpful and believes that if it's not setting any of my co2 alarms off then it's probably nothing to worry about and is not convinced that changing my flue will work but suggested changing coal instead. He also handed me a smoke test match to test for any leaks but I think this is unlikely as I sealed everything as best I could.

 

In another local stove shop the bloke at the desk practically threw a catalogue in my face and said 'nothing less than this £800 double insulated flue would do', I left as briskly as I entered.

 

If anyone has any experience of breathing troubles or flue pipe tekkers and knowledge I would really like to hear it as I desperately want to stay on my boat.

 

thanks,

Pete

I'm an asthma partaker myself. If your CO alarms aren't being triggered I'd be very surprised if that's the problem. My asthma is worse this time of year when moored near other boats - household coal burning and gawd knows what other cr*p people chuck on their fires being a noticeable trigger for my asthma. When not moored on top of other boats my asthma is vastly improved.

 

The only other fire related thing that can irritate my asthma is excess ash drifting about the place. It floats about in the air for a surprisingly long time after opening.the stove door and shovelling it out. But we're all different and have different triggers.

 

Edited to add the only other stove related thing that screws with my asthma: stove paint. It takes quite a few weeks of lighting the fire after having painted the stove for minor traces of fumes from the paint to stop b*ggering up my lungs.

Edited December 15, 2015 by BlueStringPudding

[Phil Ambrose]

Is it not as likely to be the coal dust in the boat as fumes from the stove? However finnicky you are about riddling and disposing of ash, I find that in the winter all of my surfaces get coated in ash and dust every week if I don't wipe them, which never happens in the summer when the stove is off.

Starry you may well be right, SWMBO has just pointed out that in the winter we do get s coating of extremely fine dust, more so than summer with the boat all opened up though in the summer the dust is coarser, coming from ploughing, harvesting etc.

Phil

[Ally]

It may just be that your asthma is sensitive to coal (or whatever) dust. My OH not only reacts with hay fever, but reacts to coal dust and dog dander...We have a dog! He's spent months...years...sneezing, full of gunge and breathing problems. Antihistamines didn't help enough.

A couple of days ago he bought and tried "woodyknows " nasal filters, he bought the 97% super defense filters, and it's changed and removed his problem literally immediately. I can't say enough about how good they are. Perhaps worth a browse and a try?

 

Www.woodyknows.com

[Giant]

thanks Giant an air purifier is definitely worth a shot!! I didn't even know such a thing existed, I wonder if they do a 12volt or battery powered one.

 

Good question. Ours is 240V - wasn't much option really (Sheffield size boat, 15'6" beam). I had a search around out of interest though. The only serious 12V unit I saw was the Amaircare Roomaid. Everything else at 12V seemed to be just very small things intended for in-car use. Nothing with proper specifications.

[blackrose]

While there's nothing wrong with vitreous enamel flues per se, the main drawback with using them on boats is that you can't usually get them in adequate lengths to have a single section from stove collar to roof collar. Any unsupported joints along the length of the flue are prone to leaks as the boat vibrates or hits lock walls etc.

 

For this reason I replaced my vitreous enamel flue with a thick wall steel flue made by a chandler which cost about 60 quid.

Edited December 15, 2015 by blackrose

[IanM]

I have about three co2 detectors around the stove! I like my sleep, but not that much!!!

You don't want them all around your stove, you want them next to where you sleep.

[BMC problems]

I am looking for some advice one a less than perfect situation.

 

I spent my summer doing up a narrowboat that I now live on as a continuous cruiser, however the Stove now seems to be giving me grief in making my Asthma unbearable and I have recently been travelling back to my parents just to breath.

 

There seems to be really differing schools of thought on this, but I seem to have a theory of what may be happening.

 

My stove seems to have a decent draw (bare in mind I have nothing to compare this to as it's my first stove) but As the flue Pipe I have used is vitreous enamel and barely a mm thick I wondered whether as I shut it down for the night, after sometime (in the early hours I pressume) the flue may be cooling due to it's lack of thickness and letting some of the gases drop and enter the room via the tiny gaps in the vents.

 

The chap at my local chandlery is really helpful and believes that if it's not setting any of my co2 alarms off then it's probably nothing to worry about and is not convinced that changing my flue will work but suggested changing coal instead. He also handed me a smoke test match to test for any leaks but I think this is unlikely as I sealed everything as best I could.

 

In another local stove shop the bloke at the desk practically threw a catalogue in my face and said 'nothing less than this £800 double insulated flue would do', I left as briskly as I entered.

 

If anyone has any experience of breathing troubles or flue pipe tekkers and knowledge I would really like to hear it as I desperately want to stay on my boat.

 

thanks,

Pete

You don't say what fuel you are using. The clay dust from manufactured coal can cause breathing reactions.

 

What fuel do you use and is it worse when you clean the ash pan?

[J R ALSOP]

Have you done a smoke pellet test on the fire and flue when not alight?.