Boatman's names for places

[Tam & Di]

The cognoscente seem to know exaclty how many rivets there are in a big Northwich, but to what extent have boatmen's names for locks and bridges and other features survived? Do boat owners in general still use Target Turn, Jackdaw Pound, Bulldog Bridge, Albert's two? In fact of course Albert's two were Sarah's two before that, and names did gradually change. Talking of change, Hunton Change - is that still known, and if it is, does anyone still know why it is Hunton Change? Are the Rodneys still known (that's a clue)?

 

I guess that with the demise of lock keepers lock names such as Geordie's become irrelevant. On the lower Grand Union Lock 80 was always lock 80 for some reason (though you could buy super cakes and sarnie's there in the 4 minutes it took to work through it never acquired any name to acknowledge that). Have all locks now reverted to their "official" name or number?

 

Tam

[archie57]

Hunton change lock and Boxmoor lock were change locks in the "Three lengths" down from the Cowroast where lock wheelers would change over. I too have only ever heard boaters refer to "Lock 80" as such. Rodneys would sometimes help through the locks in return for a sandwich or some such .

[GUMPY]

Some I can remember,

Nags Head Three, Peters Two, Irishmans, Sweeps, Five Paddle Lock.

The last one only lost the nameplate off the Garden gate in the last 10 years.

Guess that most only know them by their new official names.

[Laurence Hogg]

Up 'ere "Cut end" is still used for Autherley Jcn, "Top of Hampton" for Wolverhampton top lock and some still call the southern half of the Staffs & Worcs "The brook".

Many local terms are now alas just history.

[GUMPY]

Arm End is another one that springs to mind.

Even place names have gone how many remember Maffers?

[Ray T]

Calcutt Locks - Wigram's 3 ; Cape's 2 ; the Twenty-One - Hatton Flight ; of course Hawkesbury Junction - Sutton Stop.

 

Winkwell, Sewerage, Broadwater, Gas Two, Bushes & Cowroast,

lock 46.

 

As a matter interest the Barlow's captain I visit often says "You are using names for places I don't recognise." One example Grantham's Bridge for the Hillmorton Locks.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Ray T

[Southern Star]

The cognoscente seem to know exaclty how many rivets there are in a big Northwich, but to what extent have boatmen's names for locks and bridges and other features survived?

Hawkesbury Junction is probably equally as well known as Sutton Stop, after the Sutton family.

[swift1894]

I believe the "Straight Mile" in Burnley was actually known as "Burnley VAL" amongst the working boatmen. No idea why.

[koukouvagia]

These two lists were compiled by Liza Merchant who, with her husband Ike, worked for FMC. My wife and I got to know her well before she died and she'd have many stories to tell of her time on the boats.

Although barely literate she wrote out for me a short autobiography which included the names of all the locks between Birmingham and Brentford - a journey she made made times.

 

 

 

[Laurie Booth]

I believe the "Straight Mile" in Burnley was actually known as "Burnley VAL" amongst the working boatmen. No idea why.

Because it was built across the Calder Valley.

[Phoenix_V]

Picketts lock on the Lee has been renamed Alfie's lock in honour of the retired lockeepr who still lives there

[Derek R.]

I recognise all the names on Liza Merchant's list save two - Ricky lock for Batchworth, which of course is in Rickmansworth, and Stoke Hammond - not the three, but the one beyond (going North) looks like Alberts in the list.

[Tam & Di]

Ricky lock for Batchworth, which of course is in Rickmansworth, and Stoke Hammond - not the three, but the one beyond (going North) looks like Alberts in the list.

 

We know Batchworth as Ricky Lock. Albert's 2 are the two in the parks (Cassiobury Park) above Iron Bridge and Casey Bridge. Liza's names lump all the Brentford locks together, where we had Dock Head and Clitheroes too. My recollection of Picketts is of a lock keeper called Alfie some 30 years ago - not the same one surely? (or my memory's astray of course).

 

Rodney is a strange name/term. As far as I understood it talking with boat pople we knew they were itinerants? who helped the boat people, running up ahead to get the locks ready in the hope of some recompense as Archie57 suggests. One length was from Uxbridge to Hunton Change. I also came across the term in a book about West Country barges, where Rodneys served a similar unofficial function for them. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book. I have faint recollection of the term being used for itinant workers more generally too, on farms perhaps, but can't find any immediate reference to it.

 

A quick look on the internet says the name Rodney means 'famous' after Admiral Baron Rodney. However it is also used for an upper class twit (usage I can remember from school), and of course Rodney is the Only Fools & Horses (not so upper class) plonker. None of this seems to relate to the "country" usage.

[mark99]

What about a "Rodney Boat".

[magnetman]

Just don't look up Rodney on the Urban Dictionary

[Tam & Di]

Yes, I found the Rodney Boat and Urban dictionary definition when I checked to see if there was anything corresponding to what I thought a rodney was. I hesitated to put the urban dictionary meaning down for fear of upsetting anyone named Rodney on CWDF - they certainly do turn up from time to time in their figurative sense though, don't they

[colinwilks]

Hawkesbury Junction is probably equally as well known as Sutton Stop, after the Sutton family.

There is a recording of Joe Skinner in the exhibit of the remains of Friendship at Ellesmere Port Museum in which he refers to the builders of Friendship as being "Sephtons, near Hawkesbury Stop".

[Ray T]

Here is a Rodney Boat

Edited October 17, 2015 by Ray T

[Derek R.]

 

We know Batchworth as Ricky Lock. Albert's 2 are the two in the parks (Cassiobury Park) above Iron Bridge and Casey Bridge. (snipped)

 

Albert's two in the Parks, but Liza's list shows an Albert's 1 between Finny and Stoke three, the one known as Stoke Hammond lock.

 

Aah - no, I'm mis-reading Liza's handwriting - it's Talbot's not Albert's!

[Ray T]

Does Tusses Bridge called after the fishing tackle shop count? Mike H always refers to it as Tusses.

 

https://www.prestoninnovations.com/Dealers/Shopinfo/145-TUSSES-FISHING-TACKLE

 

This is opposite the backyard full of old cars mentioned in another thread.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Ray T

[Tam & Di]

Does Tusses Bridge called after the fishing tackle shop count?

 

 

That's a bit more to the point of my query. Di and I were wondering how today's canal users referred to canal structures if they need to identify a location they are talking about - do they use the names used by the working boat people, do they have their own names, or do they use the names/numbers in whatever canal guides they have. One advantage of the boatmen's names is that they are (were) well known enough to positively identify the location to a widely dispersed group of users. I've no idea where Tusses bridge might be, but as long as it is a widely used name by today's users that would serve.

 

Tam

[GUMPY]

Does Tusses Bridge called after the fishing tackle shop count? Mike H always refers to it as Tusses.

 

.

Is the shop that old?

Its called Tusses bridge in my 1975 Shell guide......

I knew the name but had to look up where it was.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Loddon

[Ray T]

 

That's a bit more to the point of my query. Di and I were wondering how today's canal users referred to canal structures if they need to identify a location they are talking about - do they use the names used by the working boat people, do they have their own names, or do they use the names/numbers in whatever canal guides they have. One advantage of the boatmen's names is that they are (were) well known enough to positively identify the location to a widely dispersed group of users. I've no idea where Tusses bridge might be, but as long as it is a widely used name by today's users that would serve.

 

Tam

 

Tusses Bridge is on the North Oxford Canal about 1/2 a mile from Sutton Stop. I do not think that boaters today use that name - I certainly didn't until I met Mike, it was just bridge number what ever it is.

My guess would be that the majority of canal boaters today use names and or the numbers in either Pearson's or Collins / Nicholson's guides. One example I quoted earlier being Grantham's Bridge for Hillmorton Locks. A family named Grantham lived in the house between the yard and the bottom pair of locks. Mike never knew it as Grantham's Bridge. I am led to believe this was a deliberate proof reading error which went unnoticed.

 

I am only aware of the working boaters names for places through extensive reading and from What Mike tells me.

 

Also as the majority of the boat people were illiterate the named places were from what they heard or were told, as everything had to be committed to memory.

[FadeToScarlet]

When we were held up by a fallen (live!) 25kv cable at the bottom of the Rushall flight, by the junction with the Tame Valley, the firemen we called out (after the end of the cable earthed itself and started a fire!) were referring to it as "Ganseys", and didn't know the modern name. The fire was well out by the time they worked out how to get to us, luckily.

[John Brightley]

Does Tusses Bridge called after the fishing tackle shop count? .

 

 

 

The shop was called after the bridge, not the other way round. The bridge has been called that name for at least 50 years - the shop is much newer.

 

Edit: Tusses Bridge is named as such on the 1888 Ordnance Survey map.

 

And I'm pretty certain 'Grantham's Bridge' at Hillmorton has only been called that for the last 20 years.

Edited October 17, 2015 by John Brightley