Boat at Whilton

[lynalldisocvery]

I would love to see Dans response to this thread.

Some sort of underlying threat?

[Alan de Enfield]

There are a number of legal isues / differences to a broker acting on behalf of a seller (private sale) and a 'broker' selling their own boat, or, a boat in 'the course of their business'.

 

When you come to sell a boat the broker will expect you to sign a document saying that you are 'not selling the boat in the course of business' - this absolves the broker from the Sale Of Goods Act.

 

If the 'seller' is a 'business' or the boat is being sold ' in the course of business', then the buyer is a consumer, but, the seller (who is acting in the course of a business) is NOT a consumer himself. As such the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 will be invoked to offer the purchaser protection against goods that are of unsatisfactory quality, which also imposes a fit for purpose requirement.

 

The difficulty comes in where you try to define 'fit for purpose' :-

 

"I ran the engine for two hours but the batteries became flat after an evening watching TV, running the fridge and using the washing machine" - it is obviously not fit for purpose - discuss !!!!

 

Many years ago we purchased a boat from a broker - we heard rumours that it was owned by the broker but they denied this, saying it was owned by the Finance Director and was a 'private sale' We had (shall we say) lots of problems and the boat was definately 'not fit for purpose'. We later heard that in fact the staff of the brokerage used to use it as a 'runabout' and had gone over to Ireland several times in it, breaking down on a number of occasions, once needing a tow from a lifeboat, and on another occasion, to avoid going onto the rocks, a SAR Helicopter 'blowing' them away from the rocks until a resue boat could get a line aboard.

Despite legal efforts it could not be proven that it was not a 'private sale'.

[Captain Fizz]

So it makes a huge amount of difference with regard to a broker wriggling out of liability. Slippery buggers!

[Peter Reed]

Some sort of underlying threat?

What me?

[MtB]

 

Many years ago we purchased a boat from a broker - we heard rumours that it was owned by the broker but they denied this, saying it was owned by the Finance Director and was a 'private sale' We had (shall we say) lots of problems and the boat was definately 'not fit for purpose'. We later heard that in fact the staff of the brokerage used to use it as a 'runabout' and had gone over to Ireland several times in it, breaking down on a number of occasions, once needing a tow from a lifeboat, and on another occasion, to avoid going onto the rocks, a SAR Helicopter 'blowing' them away from the rocks until a resue boat could get a line aboard.

Despite legal efforts it could not be proven that it was not a 'private sale'.

 

Before the days of the internet I bought a car which turned out to have a finance agreement taken out on it minutes after I bought it. The garage claimed it was a director's personal private sale which would have meant the finance co could take it from me.

 

Fortunately I was able to prove I paid the business, and not the director personally for it meaning the finance companies were unable to take the car and sell it to clear the unpaid finance. I'm still not sure why but was very relieved!

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Before the days of the internet I bought a car which turned out to have a finance agreement taken out on it minutes after I bought it. The garage claimed it was a director's personal private sale which would have meant the finance co could take it from me.

 

Fortunately I was able to prove I paid the business, and not the director personally for it meaning the finance companies were unable to take the car and sell it to clear the unpaid finance. I'm still not sure why but was very relieved!

 

MtB

 

Similar story - except with a boat broker you always pay the broker, who then deducts his commission than pays the seller the balance - what we would have needed to do was to prove the broker had in fact paid their employee.

[Neil2]

There are a number of legal isues / differences to a broker acting on behalf of a seller (private sale) and a 'broker' selling their own boat, or, a boat in 'the course of their business'.

 

When you come to sell a boat the broker will expect you to sign a document saying that you are 'not selling the boat in the course of business' - this absolves the broker from the Sale Of Goods Act.

 

If the 'seller' is a 'business' or the boat is being sold ' in the course of business', then the buyer is a consumer, but, the seller (who is acting in the course of a business) is NOT a consumer himself. As such the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 will be invoked to offer the purchaser protection against goods that are of unsatisfactory quality, which also imposes a fit for purpose requirement.

 

The difficulty comes in where you try to define 'fit for purpose' :-

 

"I ran the engine for two hours but the batteries became flat after an evening watching TV, running the fridge and using the washing machine" - it is obviously not fit for purpose - discuss !!!!

 

Many years ago we purchased a boat from a broker - we heard rumours that it was owned by the broker but they denied this, saying it was owned by the Finance Director and was a 'private sale' We had (shall we say) lots of problems and the boat was definately 'not fit for purpose'. We later heard that in fact the staff of the brokerage used to use it as a 'runabout' and had gone over to Ireland several times in it, breaking down on a number of occasions, once needing a tow from a lifeboat, and on another occasion, to avoid going onto the rocks, a SAR Helicopter 'blowing' them away from the rocks until a resue boat could get a line aboard.

Despite legal efforts it could not be proven that it was not a 'private sale'.

That all sounds extremely unfair to me, but at least it underlines the point that when you buy a boat, especially from a broker, the first question should be exactly who am I buying this boat from.

 

I had a similar experience some years ago with a guy who was in the business of building and selling boats, but tried to make out that the boat I was buying was a "private sale" and not covered by the Sale of Goods Act. In fact he went a stage further - when I refused to complete the sale (because the boat was unsatisfactory) he threatened to sue me for breach of contract. The situation was so ridiculous it was almost funny, this guy is/was an absolute clown, but as far as I know he is still trading. You really can't be too careful.

[bigrob]

I have been using their website to look at boats and start a spreadsheet on the 'stuff' we want when we buy a boat.

 

We shall probably go and have a look around Whilton, as from what has been said here, you can get the keys and look round in private.

 

It may be wise after reading all 11 pages here to actually buy from elsewhere though.

[KevMc]

I have been using their website to look at boats and start a spreadsheet on the 'stuff' we want when we buy a boat.

 

We shall probably go and have a look around Whilton, as from what has been said here, you can get the keys and look round in private.

 

It may be wise after reading all 11 pages here to actually buy from elsewhere though.

 

But if you find the boat of your dreams there it wont be for sale anywhere else :-(

[Nightwatch]

There's a forum member in the process of buying,in my opinion, a very nice boat, from Whilton.

 

If you are aware of potential 'hickups' that may or may not occur then you go in with eyes wide open, as I'm sure the above mentioned buyer is doing.

 

Martyn

[Phil Ambrose]

I bought my last boat from Whilton and had no complaints.

Phil

[churchward]

 

But if you find the boat of your dreams there it wont be for sale anywhere else :-(

Quite so. As you say if the boat you really want is at Whilton then what can you do?

 

In my view they are certainly not the best of brokers but in my experience more through their professionalism than anything underhand.

[lynalldisocvery]

What me?

Peter no not aimed at you or anyone else on here for that matter, in fact i cant remember what it was aimed at, probably in reference to one of the posts directly before it.

To lazy to go and look!

[MtB]

I bought my last boat from Whilton and had no complaints.

Phil

 

The sweetest cons are when the punter doesn't even realise...

 

 

MtB

 

 

(Only teasin' Phill!!!)

[station tug]

i was looking at one of there servays.lots of talk of hull being 5.5mm and with the pit it made it less than 4mm so uninsurable blar blar, boat needs over plating and it will be better than new, so they get the job to plate it then the commision to sell it, all horror oh my god my boats a knacker sort of stuff, when in actual fact the few pits that were on that boat could of been filled in with weld and the boat would of been worth more than a boat thats been over plated.....very naughty and misleading, the way the fella was talking he was a sales man and had little idea as regards boats.........no plate is 6mm thick it always veries as it comes through the rollers at the mill......

[bigcol]

Hang on a minute

 

do you still get free mince pies, a soup and or a coffee

its a nice afternoon out

be nosey, and get fed and watered

 

 

col xxxx ps merry Christmas folks

[MtB]

i was looking at one of there servays.lots of talk of hull being 5.5mm and with the pit it made it less than 4mm so uninsurable blar blar, boat needs over plating and it will be better than new, so they get the job to plate it then the commision to sell it, all horror oh my god my boats a knacker sort of stuff, when in actual fact the few pits that were on that boat could of been filled in with weld and the boat would of been worth more than a boat thats been over plated.....very naughty and misleading, the way the fella was talking he was a sales man and had little idea as regards boats.........no plate is 6mm thick it always veries as it comes through the rollers at the mill......

 

 

Sodding hell, you can see how Mr and Mrs Normal get so wound up about hull thickness and overpalting.

 

In reality, there's no chance of the bote sinking until the hull thickness gets down to 0.00mm.

 

AND, that commentator looks just like the salesman at Wilton who refused to pass on my £40k offer on a £47k bote telling me it was 'insulting'....

 

 

MtB

[matty40s]

Yes, you do.

Looked round at a few boats a couple of weeks ago with a prospective buyer. I couldn't believe what a mess some of the boats are( and I am not just talking bargain basement ones). Unfinished fitouts in bog standard hulls with premium prices.

the buyer was shown the many negatives on their shortlisted boats and was glad of the advice. We managed to find two very good boats in the same price range with proper engines too). We were given 3 sets of keys and viewed 9 boats, the rest were either unlocked or easily accessible through rear hatches.

 

oh, and the Hudson at £96k is a real mess, needs a complete repaint.

Edited December 19, 2013 by matty40s

[MtB]

Yes, you do.

Looked round at a few boats a couple of weeks ago with a prospective buyer. I couldn't believe what a mess some of the boats are( and I am not just talking bargain basement ones). Unfinished fitouts in bog standard hulls with premium prices.

the buyer was shown the many negatives on their shortlisted boats and was glad of the advice. We managed to find two very good boats in the same price range with proper engines too). We were given 3 sets of keys and viewed 9 boats, the rest were either unlocked or easily accessible through rear hatches.

 

My experience there too.

 

I've often thought that if one were ever homeless, Wilton might be a really good place to go. It could be weeks or months before they sussed out one was living in their stock.

 

MtB

P.S. Mr Finch, I hope you are reading this!

[Phil Ambrose]

When we were shopping for our first boat we went to a Richardson's yard and were told to have a look at 3 boats in a corner....,one had a squatter in it!

Of the other two, one had a tree growing out of it while the 3rd had the stern stoved in.

Phil

[station tug]

alot of brokerages seem to be the same these days anything from poor security, leaving lights on so it destroys your battery bank to recomending work that really isnt needed.less than 4mm??? many springers are still on the water at a good age and were only ever made out of 3mm plate, the industry has gone daft and so have many of the customers,servayors treated like demi gods to affraid to pass boats with minor issues, ...we had a 2005 tug from a well respected building moored next to us that was failed because in the servayers opinion it only had 15 years left before it would need replating and it was probably built from two different batches of steel. for the life of me i cant understand how he could of came to this conclusion without taking steel samples and sending them off,his report missed the fact the boat hadnt had any paint or primer on the inside of the hull,from new......common sense should come into play with all parties...