The latest 'Living on a boat in London'

[RLWP]

They don't last though, sometimes, not even a month, once they realise that electricity isn't a magic thing that just appears, that water tanks aren't infinite, that you can't live permanently in Islington unless you fork out £20k a year for a mooring.

 

Or they do do their research and fail at the 'finding a mooring' stage and realise it's just not a goer. I heard somewhere that as many as 70% of new London ccers manage just six months onboard before leaving. It's one reason why there have been so many rented boats (although these are becoming way less now as tenants don't want to cruise the distances that CRT are enforcing on). People can't wait to leave so they get a tenant and move off asap. It's also the reason why some of these rentals are such a state, some needing major work (such as new engines), the major work needed and the problems it has caused being the reason the newbie gave up.

 

I think we've reached or are about to reach 'peak boat'.

 

That's a fascinating insight, thank you

 

Richard

[Peter X]

Perhaps the nearest TV has got to realistically depicting some of the potential difficulties of boating in London was in the unlikely shape of ... Minder.

In their trip from Greenford to Limehouse, in which they were doing some old-fashioned boating with a purpose, carrying cargo, Arthur and Ray Daley encountered several problems, notably the cold of winter. Arthur really disliked the lack of space aboard too as I recall, and the cost of renting the boat, a very modern problem.

 

Lady Muck is absolutely right that these media articles tend to show "slightly smug young yuppie types". I'd imagine that if enforcement is tightened it may become difficult for them to CC around London in a pattern which would satisfy CRT while holding down a full time office job in say Canary Wharf, unless they devote most of their spare time to the boating, or have a partner aboard who can do it. Even then they'd have to be prepared to commute from a variety of places in the outer zones sometimes, and it could be a long slog into the office.

 

That figure of 10,000 people living on boats on London's waterways sounds quite possible, bearing in mind that many boats could have two or more people, and they may well be including the Thames and marinas along it. "London" might be taken as the postal area, or maybe all of the London boroughs.

[Lady Muck]

Enforcement has been tightened now, yes. There are those of us who are freelance/self employed and/or have our own transport so longer distances aren't too much of an issue. Then there are those who are so well off they can afford people to empty their loo (£12 for your cassette emptied anyone?) fill up their boat with water and have the boat moved to a new location while they are at work.

But none of that means that you can live in a hip central area anymore, permanently, if you try that you end up on a shortened license. October is when the first shortened licenses will be refused (and there are hundreds at the moment under these conditions). The days of shuffling through Hackney and Islington are gone.

This is why I think we've reached peak boat. People base their decision to get a boat on what their mates say, not on the CRT website and now their mates are telling them they have to cruise out of town.

[FadeToScarlet]

Enforcement has been tightened now, yes. There are those of us who are freelance/self employed and/or have our own transport so longer distances aren't too much of an issue. Then there are those who are so well off they can afford people to empty their loo (£12 for your cassette emptied anyone?) fill up their boat with water and have the boat moved to a new location while they are at work.

But none of that means that you can live in a hip central area anymore, permanently, if you try that you end up on a shortened license. October is when the first shortened licenses will be refused (and there are hundreds at the moment under these conditions). The days of shuffling through Hackney and Islington are gone.

This is why I think we've reached peak boat. People base their decision to get a boat on what their mates say, not on the CRT website and now their mates are telling them they have to cruise out of town.

Ah hah, a business opportunity...

[RLWP]

Ah hah, a business opportunity...

 

Gong farmer?

 

Richard

[Emerald Fox]

The answer to the UK's housing crisis is not for people who have no interest in boats to be forced to live on boats, but to launch a massive house building programme, and if that means concreting over the Green Belt and telling the NIMBYs to go do one, then so be it.

 

What's wrong with opening the floodgates and letting all the illegal immigrants at Calais pour into Green Park, Hyde Park, Kensington Park, Hampstead Heath, Regent's Park, Battersea Park, Clapham Common, Greenwich Park, Kensington Gardens and Richmond Park - many seem to have their own tents already.

They could be supplied with more tents from the Public Purse.

They get a nice city in which to work and go clubbing-and-pubbing with their mates, and they get a home in a lovely park.

You see, there IS room!

[craftycarper]

Enforcement has been tightened now, yes. There are those of us who are freelance/self employed and/or have our own transport so longer distances aren't too much of an issue. Then there are those who are so well off they can afford people to empty their loo (£12 for your cassette emptied anyone?) fill up their boat with water and have the boat moved to a new location while they are at work.

But none of that means that you can live in a hip central area anymore, permanently, if you try that you end up on a shortened license. October is when the first shortened licenses will be refused (and there are hundreds at the moment under these conditions). The days of shuffling through Hackney and Islington are gone.

This is why I think we've reached peak boat. People base their decision to get a boat on what their mates say, not on the CRT website and now their mates are telling them they have to cruise out of town.

 

starting to sound like there may be a few cheap boats around soon, might be time to upgrade the yoghurt pot ,

[Emerald Fox]

I think you have to get to certain stage in life to realise excessive personal possessions = clutter that fills up houses, reducing clutter increases living space.

 

Rowan Atkinson, said to be worth £71million, owns an impressive collection that includes a Honda NSX, a Jaguar Mk7, an Aston Martin DB2, a vintage Ford Falcon, a 1939 BMW 328 and a Rolls-Royce Phantom Coupe.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3115331/Rowan-Atkinson-sells-8million-McLaren-F1-supercar-one-Britain-s-biggest-car-deals-crashed-twice.html

 

(71 million could buy an awful lot of nice tents, and few nice narrowboats...)

[Peter X]

It's interesting to speculate as to what happens when many London boaters react to CRT's changes, by cruising slowly from Watford to Hertford or Bishop's Stortford and back? That would appear to comply, while still keeping them within some sort of commuting distance of central London using a zones 1-6 Travelcard, and the net effect may be that with the existing boats more evenly spread around London, there's room for a few more to join in? If so, we might not quite be at "peak boat" yet? The famous shortage of water points might become the limiting factor.

 

Some of these people who start cruising out of town might develop a taste for it, I went along the GU from Iver to Watford earlier this month and found it pleasant, it has flats and other buildings along it but quite a rural feel in places.

 

I find the notion of people making a living as London boat crews, doing all the shuffling along and filling and emptying of tanks while the owners go off to work, somewhat amusing. Here we have the prospect of a partial revival of the number of people earning a living on the canals, driven not by the meaningful purpose of moving cargo, but by the need to stay within the law put in place in 1995 by using an exception whose intention was to permit the remaining CC'ing boats to go about their business. It's all a little farcical really, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was a bad thing. The gongoozlers will like it, because in the coming years we may expect to see more boats on the move on the London canals at any given time.

 

ETA: Actually to be precise, I don't think zone 6 goes quite as far out as the places I mentioned, but other tickets are available, or I suppose boats could wind at the end of zone 6 while still covering an adequate range in a year to keep CRT happy.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Peter X

[Emerald Fox]

To add: if 70% of new boaters in London last just 6 months living aboard, it suggests that 30% are happy to carry on for longer. Rents of 20K/year (385 Pounds/week) seem to show that the streets of London are indeed paved with gold, and there are some very nice jobs to be had. Otherwise, how could people afford such high rents?

 

It could be that the world is overpopulated by humans. Or is it?

When you see the amount of vehicles burning diesel and petrol, and all the people at airports off to sunny Greece and to visit the Grand Canyon, and all the sports teams flying around the globe in the name of 'sport' (ie. competition/advertising/big business), it seems hard to believe that 'there is no money'. Britain does seem to be run in a very inefficient way. I can't think of other countries that are run better, though. (We're all doomed, etc. etc.)

 

If this is true, that boaters are being forced to get their engines fired up and chug out of London into the countryside (where that? Grand Union? Lea/Stort? Can't think of other escape routes!), that would probably mean that many will abandon their boats, have to sell them. Living on the edge, then being pushed over that edge. There will then be a lot of rusty old hulks to buy that need re-wiring (electrics) and re-plumbing and engines pulled out and renovated, and hulls that have rusted to 1mm. What will happen to these boats? What happens if the owners/sellers can't find buyers? What if the buyers are deliberately holding back so that the prices plummet?

 

I would much rather live in Whitby, or Penrith, or Richmond (North Yorks) or - indeed! - Slaithwaite rather than London. Anyway, here's a nice clip from Youtube about London to show people who want to live there what it's like - I like the music, feels like a Sunday morning:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavST-6lfL8

[Southern Star]

 

What's wrong with opening the floodgates and letting all the illegal immigrants at Calais pour into Green Park, Hyde Park, Kensington Park, Hampstead Heath, Regent's Park, Battersea Park, Clapham Common, Greenwich Park, Kensington Gardens and Richmond Park - many seem to have their own tents already.

They could be supplied with more tents from the Public Purse.

They get a nice city in which to work and go clubbing-and-pubbing with their mates, and they get a home in a lovely park.

You see, there IS room!

Greenie for that- the irony is that there are more than a few members on here who will take it as a literal post and nod their heads in agreement.

[Emerald Fox]

Sometimes it's hard to tell if I'm joking or not

With me, there are 4 grains of truth in a bucket of tripe - you just have to put your arm in and grope around a bit to find 'em

 

Quite honestly, the world generally just carries on as it always has done, and I have noticed that not looking at all at the News for a few weeks and being ignorant makes for a happier life.

 

I keep seeing "Victoria's Secret" shops at airports, and wonder if Mrs Beckham's Secret is that she has been buying some very nice tents to house the homeless in their back garden...

Edited August 17, 2015 by Emerald Fox

[Emerald Fox]

Someone was mentioning the Minder episode, The Cruel Canal, where they chug off to Limehouse, just watched it on Youtube:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ittr09IHM

[Lady Muck]

It's interesting to speculate as to what happens when many London boaters react to CRT's changes, by cruising slowly from Watford to Hertford or Bishop's Stortford and back? That would appear to comply, while still keeping them within some sort of commuting distance of central London using a zones 1-6 Travelcard, and the net effect may be that with the existing boats more evenly spread around London, there's room for a few more to join in? If so, we might not quite be at "peak boat" yet? The famous shortage of water points might become the limiting factor.

 

Some of these people who start cruising out of town might develop a taste for it, I went along the GU from Iver to Watford earlier this month and found it pleasant, it has flats and other buildings along it but quite a rural feel in places.

 

I find the notion of people making a living as London boat crews, doing all the shuffling along and filling and emptying of tanks while the owners go off to work, somewhat amusing. Here we have the prospect of a partial revival of the number of people earning a living on the canals, driven not by the meaningful purpose of moving cargo, but by the need to stay within the law put in place in 1995 by using an exception whose intention was to permit the remaining CC'ing boats to go about their business. It's all a little farcical really, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was a bad thing. The gongoozlers will like it, because in the coming years we may expect to see more boats on the move on the London canals at any given time.

 

ETA: Actually to be precise, I don't think zone 6 goes quite as far out as the places I mentioned, but other tickets are available, or I suppose boats could wind at the end of zone 6 while still covering an adequate range in a year to keep CRT happy.

It becomes unaffordable to most once you get past Zone 6 - can be £40 or more a day for a train ticket at peak times. I've only had to come back into town a few times this summer, but in one week I spent £400 on trains and cabs, fortunately all could be claimed back. Thing is, many are not that well off so training it in from well out of town or paying a boat mover just isn't affordable. So a few I know have had to sell up, which is sad. But yes, many are out of town, half a dozen of us at Cropredy, we spent time with friends who have left to cc the midlands, I stayed with another young couple in Manchester, both used to cc London, they are now on the Llangollen, some more friends are on the Nene. Overall, its great, we have a whole new generation of canal enthusiasts that we didn't have before all of this.

[Lady Muck]

To add: if 70% of new boaters in London last just 6 months living aboard, it suggests that 30% are happy to carry on for longer. Rents of 20K/year (385 Pounds/week) seem to show that the streets of London are indeed paved with gold, and there are some very nice jobs to be had. Otherwise, how could people afford such high rents?

 

Housing benefit and tax credits, although migrant workers don't qualify and if on low wages cannot afford it, so they rent beds, see them rented in Tottenham, two sets of bunk beds in a double room, £200 a month for a bed. Kids on minimum wage still live at home, they don't move out.

[Athy]

The answer to the UK's housing crisis is not for people who have no interest in boats to be forced to live on boats,

Are you suggesting that everyone who lives in a house has a keen interest in architecture?

[MtB]

Are you suggesting that everyone who lives in a house has a keen interest in architecture?

 

 

Surely only those who are 'forced' to live in them!

[Peter X]

...

 

Anyway, here's a nice clip from Youtube about London to show people who want to live there what it's like - I like the music, feels like a Sunday morning:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lavST-6lfL8

That YouTube clip gives no idea what it's like in London, because it very much looks as if it was shot on a Sunday morning; it has very few vehicles and people. One person on the Millenium Bridge, a trickle of traffic on Tower Bridge, and Ludgate Hill looked really empty.

[Emerald Fox]

The canals of London are like a "badly run pub":

 

 

Is this any better than the first clip? What a cheery lot!:

 

[cuthound]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWGgNHZbR00

Thanks EF, you have just reminded what was a daily event for most of my working career. Much nicer watching the boats, ducks & swans pass by slowly here in Amington!

[lampini]

starting to sound like there may be a few cheap boats around soon, might be time to upgrade the yoghurt pot ,

 

Trouble with that is, many neglect/fail totally to do/are ignorant of the most basic maintenance; and it's mostly (but not all) these boats which will be up for sale!

 

I honestly thought it was a "boater myth", the new owner not understanding the very basics, until a friend of a friend messaged me. She was confused that she couldn't see a water point from her boat, she thought they were every few yards all along the cut! The same poor lass could not get her head around the fact that she would have to move the boat to get to a pump-out and had honestly thought she could permanently moor at mile end... When i asked her where she had got all these ideas from, it was apparently the guy who had sold her the boat! It was when she asked me if there was any way of stopping the boat "moving all the time" that i gave up..

 

So when we come to buy a boat; January onwards i think, we won't be looking at many from London... having said that, never say never!

 

Edited August 19, 2015 by lampini

[mark99]

Phroah - That reporter Emilia! lovely.

Edited August 22, 2015 by mark99

[Phil Ambrose]

All this reminds me of why it took me 40 years to move out of London and 30 years on still no regrets, cannot for the life of me think why people are scrambling to live in the place. When we visit, after 24 hours we have had enough.

Phil

[magnetman]

Nah. It's getting over this "I need a 3 bedroom house for me and the cat" thing.

 

My mum was one of 9 children, and grew up in a smaller house than I, my wife and my cat live in.

 

All three of us are happier living on the boat than in the house - it's about a quarter of the size (volume) of our lounge.

 

If we accept as a society that we don't need to avoid our fellows at all costs, we might be able to start a saner conversation about housing.

The answer to London's housing crisis is compulsory purchase of all the old terraced houses with more than 2 bedrooms, ribbon demolition and rebuilding with rows of 3 story blocks of flats.

 

That way there would be space for everyone..

 

Its terribly silly how we have old retired couples rattling about in 5 bedroom houses while working people with families are forced to live further out and commute on overly busy commuter trains

 

I know it won't happen but London's old housing stock is completely inefficient in modern times.

 

Of course the BTL landlords are happy so that's ok screw all the others

[GreyLady]

The answer to London's housing crisis is compulsory purchase of all the old terraced houses with more than 2 bedrooms, ribbon demolition and rebuilding with rows of 3 story blocks of flats.

That way there would be space for everyone..

Its terribly silly how we have old retired couples rattling about in 5 bedroom houses while working people with families are forced to live further out and commute on overly busy commuter trains

I know it won't happen but London's old housing stock is completely inefficient in modern times.

Of course the BTL landlords are happy so that's ok screw all the others

I agree

 

Its like a bad game of monopoly.

 

Their is definitely an element of look how much space we have darling compared to those poor people, did'nt we do well.

 

Snobby very snobby and selfish imo only.

Edited August 22, 2015 by grumpy146