So What To Do Now?

[churchward]

 

Keep the canals and you keep the heritage by default. The canals are the heritage. It's the use that changes. I agree that the housing crisis cannot be solved by the cut, the scale simply isn't there. Housing, in ways such as you have suggested, could help save the canals though by bringing more people onto the system with a vested interest in it's continued existence as a navigable resource.

Indeed it should be so but I was thinking about what you said about isolated deeper sections for fish and towpaths for cycling if the system ended up like this I would see that as abject failure for heritage, navigation is a sacred cow for me.

 

I do think Birmingham has a real and largely achievable opportunity to make a difference to the canal network there and benefit the lives of people who would enjoy living on the canals and want low cost housing in the city. I agree with you that do it right the income generated could help the funding of the canal system (and people interested in canal network) in a way not available now.

Edited June 23, 2015 by churchward

[sueb]

Ah, I had noticed you don't post so much/at all these days.

 

Thought you had given up on the forum, that's all.

Nice to see you are still about.

 

Thank you. It's nice to be missed. I started a thread a couple of days ago

Sue

[Rufford]

It takes all sorts to make the character, ambience and charm of the canal.

 

I brought my first boat in 2009, previously my family had owned two boats and we even briefly lived on one for 6 months in between house moves.

 

I have experienced boats as an awestruck kid, a mardy bored teenager and again in my 20's as a 'home owner' planning to stay a few years on a boat to save a deposit for a house.

 

Then in my later 20's with a sizeable 'deposit' I decided that it was the boat life for me.

 

I had always been fascinated by the large old boats I had seen such as Chertsey, Whitby and Darly. With their huge bows and always immaculately turned out.

 

So I looked into them, read what was available on the net, including this forum and then looked at a few old boats and spent my house deposit money on the boat I intend to live on for the rest of my life. Just need to save up again to afford a deposit on a house with end of garden mooring to keep the Mrs happy...

 

I guess my point is that we have all overstayed a little from time to time. We have all come from different backgrounds and we all bring different aspects to the cut.

 

Not everyone who looks for cheap accommodation is a piss taking constant moorer, and of those that stay on the canals for more than one winter I would say that there is something they find special about the canals that they just cannot ever fully say goodbye too.

 

That being said we all do have to play fair and whilst I must admit I do love the little floating communities that spring up, I also agree that bw need to be able to move people on effectively and a good job too otherwise such things can grow stale.

 

I like my mates, they are my mates. But I wouldn't want to live by them all the time!

 

Which is why I get annoyed when people ask bw to define a place and an acceptable cruising routine. Firstly I don't want a routine and secondly I like leaving it down to bw's discretion. They are in my eyes like the barman calling time on the evenings drinkies. However going more 'official and corporate' I can see how this is hard to be consistent and fair with.

 

I do have to say tho that the situation down London does sound squalid. And there seems little point in staying static, a boat has an engine for a reason and it can be so relaxing and joyous to cruise.

 

I might even try bunk off work early and go boating tomorrow. The problem is when you bump into your mate's and have a little drinkies...

 

All the being said I have been following Kris's story for a few months. He does seem to be taking the piss.

[DHutch]

I can see how if your doing doing all the work yourself, while working, on a budget, things take time.

 

However if its going to, or turns out to, take 9 months and your a cc'er then you either need to make sure it doesnt take that long or find another solution such as taking up a mooring.

 

As an example, if I bought a project car and had it on a drive or in the garage I could fix it all I liked. If I lived in a flat with only on-road parking it would need to be taxed and tested so that would be out of the question. Ditto, if I was using the car to get to work, I would have to fix it in a much shorter time frame before by friends got fed up of giving me a lift in without getting a lift back.

 

Obviously the fact its a historic boat has some merit, but I can buy a 1930's car and keep that on the road without tax and test either. Obviously this boat is currently licensed with bss, but my point is that ultimately rules are rules if the are enforced and you fall foul...

 

 

Daniel

[MtB]

All the being said I have been following Kris's story for a few months. He does seem to be taking the piss.

 

 

In defence of Kris88, if I understand him correctly, he is taking advantage of the highlighted bit in the following:

 

(ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.

 

Kris considers it reasonable in the circumstances because he is saving for posterity a historic L&L boat.

 

 

MtB

[DHutch]

 

Kris considers it reasonable in the circumstances because he is saving for posterity a historic L&L boat.

 

Which brings us round to an very open ended debate.

 

I am not directly aware of the boats location, certainly there is a lot of the L&L where the boat would do no harm for years and in the main if I was CRT a would show a fair wedge of compassion if that where the case. There are also areas where a boat for 9 months would be sticking out like a soar thumb even if on 14 day moorings, and you dont want a 'broken window' syndrome where all of a sudden every man and his dog things its ok to be broken down for a year.

 

 

Daniel

[MtB]

Which brings us round to an very open ended debate.

 

 

Indeed.

 

I have the feeling that it doesn't matter what any of us thinks. What matters is what Kris thinks, what CRT thinks, and who the judge decides is right.

 

Because that's where it's leading. The boat is going to be subject to a Section 8 court case and if Kris sticks to his guns.

[ditchcrawler]

To use an analogy, how many more people would rummage bins if more bins were provided. Before anyone gives me a hard time, I know it's a terrible analogy but it makes my point. It does hinge on the question, how many people would really give up the security, utilities etc of a paid mooring? You think it would be enough to wipe out most marinas, I don't.

 

To flip it back the other way, why didn't winter tow path moorings take off?

I moor in a marina, It is some where to leave the boat in relative safety and not have to worry unduly about it while I am at home. It is also somewhere to leave the car while I am cruising, I know there will be a pontoon waiting for me to moor against when I return. There wont be anyone moored in "my" spot. I will be able to get close to the edge, I wont have to drive stakes in and hope they don't get pulled out by passing boats.

If I could moor online for free, would I? I don't know

[Naughty Cal]

I moor in a marina, It is some where to leave the boat in relative safety and not have to worry unduly about it while I am at home. It is also somewhere to leave the car while I am cruising, I know there will be a pontoon waiting for me to moor against when I return. There wont be anyone moored in "my" spot. I will be able to get close to the edge, I wont have to drive stakes in and hope they don't get pulled out by passing boats.

If I could moor online for free, would I? I don't know

I still don't think we would and for pretty much all of the reasons you mention.

 

It is nice to have some security for the boat, or when we are away the car and know that we have a designated spot that will be free as and when we come back too it.

[Athy]

 

There's more chance of them altering the 1995 Act to totally eliminate CCing, than changing planning law. But I think realistically the chance of both occurring is 0%.

I'm not a statistician , but shurely shome mishtake here?

[larkshall]

Bassplayer,

The point is its every thread!

For a brief moment there was a glimmer of interesting developments when Kris posted his pics, sadly its been lost in the white noise.

I can't believe I'm going to type this.... BUT....

Oh how I miss the old whining about gennys running after 8pm, gas v electric fridges, pump out versus cassette, superior steel boat owners v GRP yogurt pots (that one always got on my wick) shinny boats v scruffy boats, the worth of fake rivets and so on.

Please can we have the old forum back

Deserves a well earned greenie have one

[Paul C]

I'm not a statistician , but shurely shome mishtake here?

 

I rounded down the 0.000000001% and 0.0000000001% respectively.

[bizzard]

Self pump out still not working at B.Stortford. Lots of cross legged folk reeling about up there.

[Athy]

 

I rounded down the 0.000000001% and 0.0000000001% respectively.

Good answer. Have a virtual greeno!

[Southern Star]

I moor in a marina, It is some where to leave the boat in relative safety and not have to worry unduly about it while I am at home. It is also somewhere to leave the car while I am cruising, I know there will be a pontoon waiting for me to moor against when I return. There wont be anyone moored in "my" spot. I will be able to get close to the edge, I wont have to drive stakes in and hope they don't get pulled out by passing boats.

If I could moor online for free, would I? I don't know

Same here, but I feel that if free and unrestricted towpath mooring was to become available then boat living would become a far more attractive proposition to those with no interest in boats, but who simply needed a cheap living option. I feel very sorry for the priced-out generation, but mile upon mile of permanently static boats would not be to the advantage of the waterways network.

[MtB]

I'm not a statistician , but shurely shome mishtake here?

 

I think probability theory is a branch of maths rather than statistics, innit?

[system 4-50]

My take is that Kriss needs a partner to help him manage his life. He has the enterprise, intelligence and hard work to do lots of things but lacks a basic management skill.

Its the best I can do having never met the guy.

 

The interesting question is, can this forum help him find one?!!!

If the basic premise is true then he probably cannot organise this for himself.

But what do I know? He may have 3 already!

[bassplayer]

Deserves a well earned greenie have one

There's always someone who likes to stir up the crap again...

[MtB]

There's always someone who likes to stir up the crap again...

 

 

Pot, kettle...

[bassplayer]

Pot, kettle...

....you can talk

[MtB]

I know. we're as bad as each other at it!

[Lady Muck]

I moor in a marina, It is some where to leave the boat in relative safety and not have to worry unduly about it while I am at home. It is also somewhere to leave the car while I am cruising, I know there will be a pontoon waiting for me to moor against when I return. There wont be anyone moored in "my" spot. I will be able to get close to the edge, I wont have to drive stakes in and hope they don't get pulled out by passing boats.

If I could moor online for free, would I? I don't know

I would not, no way, certainly not in London. I value the security, parking space, shoreline, it is worth the money for me. It's a myth that people are somehow avoiding not paying, the majority would love a mooring, but there are none. I never have any problems getting a ccer to sublet off me when we do a long summer cruise, this year when I put the offer out there I was swamped with offers. Most London ccers manage only 18 months, before giving it up, because its a hard life with lots of inconvenience no security, especially if you're not prepared for it. Yet people attack them for it, people I reckon, if you asked them, theres no way they'd spend two weeks on the towpath in Dalston, or Hackney.

[kris88]

Thanks for the replies,what a lot of words, it takes me along time to read everything that's been posted. I'm not shure it's worth it either as not a lot of it is relevant but hey ho as long as your enjoying yourselves.

Daniel the analogy you used about the cars , if I expand on that surely my boat is liscenced,insured and tested.so actually if it was a car I'd have no problem keeping it at the side of the road.

System 4-50 thanks for the in depth analysis, just from reading posts on a forum wow you must be good. Or do you just work for a dating agency?

Mike is just Mike and can't contain his glee, I expect he'd like to see my boat scraped so he can say I told you so. Proving how right he is.

As for Rachel, forgive me if I'm a bit wary of your new overly friendly forum persona. Once bitten twice shy as it where.

All the people who have expressed concern/interest thank you very much.

Oh yes blizzard thanks very much for the info about bishop storford pump out!

Regards kris

[Naughty Cal]

Thanks for the replies,what a lot of words, it takes me along time to read everything that's been posted. I'm not shure it's worth it either as not a lot of it is relevant but hey ho as long as your enjoying yourselves.

Daniel the analogy you used about the cars , if I expand on that surely my boat is liscenced,insured and tested.so actually if it was a car I'd have no problem keeping it at the side of the road.

System 4-50 thanks for the in depth analysis, just from reading posts on a forum wow you must be good. Or do you just work for a dating agency?

Mike is just Mike and can't contain his glee, I expect he'd like to see my boat scraped so he can say I told you so. Proving how right he is.

As for Rachel, forgive me if I'm a bit wary of your new overly friendly forum persona. Once bitten twice shy as it where.

All the people who have expressed concern/interest thank you very much.

Oh yes blizzard thanks very much for the info about bishop storford pump out!

Regards kris

Kris, we may not see eye to eye on a lot of subjects, including camping out on the towpath for months on end.

 

But, that does not mean that I want to see you lose your boat.

 

I would love, as much as anybody else here, to see you reach some kind of happy medium with CRT so that you can continue to restore your historically important boat whilst satisfying CRT with your intentions to CC. That does however rely on a bit of give and take on your behalf as well.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Oh yes blizzard thanks very much for the info about bishop storford pump out!

Regards kris

A great help wasn't it.