So What To Do Now?

[Sabcat]

As the boat's out of the water in those pictures he's clearly moved it. Unless he caused a breach where ever he is to avoid the cost of craning/docking

[NilesMI]

Just the same long term rate as everyone else ashore.

 

Well, that sounds like a bargain then.

 

He would have saved the cost of the licence and if that roughly equates to the long term staorage rate, would be no worse off financially, but without the enforcement hassle he has endured so far and will continue to endure if he persists with the current arrangement.

 

I hope, having asked for advice here, Kris let's us know what course of action he does eventually take and that if it is to renew his licence under CC terms for the 3 months CRT have offered, how he intends to comply with the CC requirements.

[bassplayer]

Again it would be useful to look at the numbers before making any judgement opn whether removing the 14 day rule would be sensible or not. Do you know how much is spent on enforcing the 14 day rule, specifically, as opposed to enforcing all the other licence requirements?

 

Then what would be the effect of removing the blanket 14 day rule? Would all moorings other than those already designated as less than 14 days become time unlimited? Or, would some moorings which are currently not specifically time limited need to be designated as 14 days or some other time between 14 days and inifinity? If so what would be the one-off cost of establishing those restrictions (signage, publication) and what would be the ongoing cost of enforcing those restrictions?

 

Would the derestricting of towpath moorings create the possibility that a particular stretch of toiwpath could be nominated as a boat's home mooring, being a place where the boat can be kept when not being used for navigation? Given the way the Act isd written, it wopuld be hard to argue that it couldn't be so designated. If so, what effect would that have on those who currently pay for a home mooring, whether or not they are live aboards?

 

I ask the questions not to be argumentative, because like you I can think of many places where having boats moored for longer than 14 days would not cause a problem of any kind and there may be scope for relaxing or even removing the 14 day restriction in those places. But the devil, as always, is in the detail.

It would be interesting to find out how they came up with 14 days as the default limit. Was is regarded as a typical max duration some might be away from the boat (e.g holidays)? Was it based on how long it's reasonable to visit somewhere?

 

I'm guessing it's to discourage perceived 'vagrants' from settling in the same spot. Rightly or wrongly, the authorities don't like people who don't play by the system. National security seems to be the main excuse these days, again rightly or wrongly.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Well, that sounds like a bargain then.

 

He would have saved the cost of the licence and if that roughly equates to the long term staorage rate, would be no worse off financially, but without the enforcement hassle he has endured so far and will continue to endure if he persists with the current arrangement.

 

I hope, having asked for advice here, Kris let's us know what course of action he does eventually take and that if it is to renew his licence under CC terms for the 3 months CRT have offered, how he intends to comply with the CC requirements.

Their rates really are not that bad.

 

£80 plus VAT per month plus £1.20 per day electric. Works out at about £133 per month.

 

Obviously lift in and lift out on top of that as well.

[ditchcrawler]

Here is some photos of the recent work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope these are linked to for the people who have expressed an interest in recent work on the boat

That is an interesting rudder arrangement the way the shaft doesn't run right through

[Naughty Cal]

Kris. I'm not sure of this has been mentioned before or not but have you considered registering the boat on the Historic Ships Register?

 

http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/index.php

 

They may be able to help with some funding.

[kris88]

Thanks for all the offers of help, what would be really handy would be if someone could tell me how to flash the exciter field, on pramac p6000 without the avr. That would be really useful.

regards kris

[Theo]

Why change a habit of a lifetime? :-)

Just stick to your flawed, generalistic & 'whatever suits my opinion' views !

 

Watch it, mate! Stick to the discussion rather than dish out insults.

 

N

 

what does my head in on these threads is - genuine questions and interest, plus advice gets lost in the bickering posts, give it a break guys, its not good when your interested in a topic and come back from work to find 9 pages to go through to pick out the revevant posts.

 

This is exactly the problem, clearly stated and why we have to keep banging on about what is basically normal good manners.

[dccruiser]

;000;0

Ok, so how come there aren't 24,000 live aboards in London then? Just maybe because it's already reached saturation point and that in itself puts people off doing it.

Or it could be that they are becoming aware that it isnt as easy to be a CMer as it used to be

 

Rick

[kris88]

As for the person who started the rumour Im installing a beta 43, go and wash your mouth out I've never been so insulted in my life.

Regards kris

[Southern Star]

Here's just a random idea. I understand this is a boat of historical interest. How about setting up a funding page, posting some photos etc, then publicising it, you might well get sufficient donations to pay for a few months moorings, which would get you off the radar for the time being?

[Arthur Marshall]

As for the person who started the rumour Im installing a beta 43, go and wash your mouth out I've never been so insulted in my life.

Regards kris

Whatever it is (and I'd still like to know out of interest), it obviously wasn't just a straightforward engine breakdown and you waiting for a part. Looks more like most of the back end gave up the ghost. Although that being said, if we hadn't managed to bodge the coupling on my Lister I'd have had to replace the propshaft when fixing the clutch (or whatever equivalent Listers have).

[dccruiser]

None of those I have spoken to, no. One person did get as far as looking at a couple of boats with the view of living on one, then gave up. There are many further steps to take before someone actually gets as far as living on one.

Yes, like find and secure a permanent mooring before buying the boat or having the funds and lack of ties to one area to go c'cing around the system

 

Rick

[bassplayer]

...and lack of ties to one area to go c'cing around the system

 

Rick

I'm trying to remember, did you always keep a mooring when you set off travelling? Or did you let it go for while?

 

I'm asking this because I was wondering how you feel about CC'ers leaving their boat for a few days whilst visiting family, freinds or keeping medical appointments? Do they count as ties?

[BruceinSanity]

As for the person who started the rumour Im installing a beta 43, go and wash your mouth out I've never been so insulted in my life.

Regards kris

Yeah, I owe you an apology for that. I was confusing you with another very similar thread running at the same time which did feature one.

 

Doesn't change the fact that you're gonna have to cruise or moor, though.

[Tam & Di]

It's not a question I often bring up with live aboards as they are already doing it. It is something I tend to discuss with those who take an interest in my life style. That's about as far as it gets...particularly after they've been on the boat for a day or two. I'm being genuinely truthful, I've not met anyone other than those who already live on a boat who wants to do it. Some are attracted to the idea.

 

My gripe is how the 'London problem' gets expanded into a 'national problem'. There is plenty of space, just not in the heart of London and a few other hot spots. Point taken though, I'll leave the London problem to those who are living there. You're right in saying it would only be in the lsrger towns and cities, but the reaction would be coming from those with far bigger sticks than CRT and would ultimately affect all users.

 

But you are talking to people with at least some interest in boating. If all mooring restrictions (and charges) were scrapped how long do you think it would be before those with no interest whatsoever in canals or boats but who simply wanted/needed some cheap/free hole to doss in would seize the opportunity. There would be plenty of others looking to make an easy buck from them by providing floating hovels too.

 

You're right that it would be happening in the larger towns and cities, but the reaction would come from those with far larger sticks than C&RT and would soon reflect on all users, the good the bad and the ugly.

 

edit as my post got itself truncated when I posted it

Edited June 23, 2015 by Tam & Di

[bassplayer]

But you are talking to people with at least some interest in boating. If all mooring restrictions (and charges) were scrapped how long do you think it would be before those with no interest whatsoever in canals or boats but who simply wanted/needed some cheap/free hole to doss in would seize the opportunity. There would be plenty of others looking to make an easy buck from them by providing floating hovels too.

 

You're right that it would be happening in the larger towns and cities, but the reaction would come from those with far larger sticks than C&RT and would soon reflect on all users, the good the bad and the ugly.

 

edit as my post got itself truncated when I posted it

Oh dear. I never suggested scrapping all mooring restrictions and charges (where did that come from?).

 

I suggested scrapping the default 14 day law. Especially outside hot spots. It won't happen though, so don't worry. As for VM's, it might be good to create more now.

[dccruiser]

I'm trying to remember, did you always keep a mooring when you set off travelling? Or did you let it go for while?

 

I'm asking this because I was wondering how you feel about CC'ers leaving their boat for a few days whilst visiting family, freinds or keeping medical appointments? Do they count as ties?

Yes, i have a residential mooring even though i have just come back from a few weeks out and am leaving tomorrow for another month or so....

 

Come spring i am going C'Cing full time in which case when i need to go home for a few days i will leave my boat in the nearest marina( my choice for reasons of security) i will also return to the marina for a month through xmas/ new year, but barring this i will be continually cruising the waterways.

 

On a very pleasant note i suggest with respect you do let your beef with bwb go and not continue it with CART . i have every reason to have just as much of a gripe as i had a section 8 slapped on a boat through circumstances beyond my control, i was serving overseas and a 3 month tour turned into 6 months, in the meantime my licence expired and i hadnt paid for my online mooring and just to help things along my boat sank to the gunnels as the bilge pump packed up, so when i arrived back in the uk i had 24 hours to float, licence and move it, ... this is why i now ensure i do everything within the rules and i can afford to cover the costs of boat ownership.

 

Rick

[bassplayer]

Yes, i have a residential mooring even though i have just come back from a few weeks out and am leaving tomorrow for another month or so....

 

Come spring i am going C'Cing full time in which case when i need to go home for a few days i will leave my boat in the nearest marina( my choice for reasons of security) i will also return to the marina for a month through xmas/ new year, but barring this i will be continually cruising the waterways.

 

On a very pleasant note i suggest with respect you do let your beef with bwb go and not continue it with CART . i have every reason to have just as much of a gripe as i had a section 8 slapped on a boat through circumstances beyond my control, i was serving overseas and a 3 month tour turned into 6 months, in the meantime my licence expired and i hadnt paid for my online mooring and just to help things along my boat sank to the gunnels as the bilge pump packed up, so when i arrived back in the uk i had 24 hours to float, licence and move it, ... this is why i now ensure i do everything within the rules and i can afford to cover the costs of boat ownership.

 

Rick

That didn't sound like a great experience. I'm glad the experience didn't put you off boating for life. Mine nearly did.

 

I'm still interested whether you think friends, family and medical appointments count as ties which don't qualify CC'ers in your book.

Here's just a random idea. I understand this is a boat of historical interest. How about setting up a funding page, posting some photos etc, then publicising it, you might well get sufficient donations to pay for a few months moorings, which would get you off the radar for the time being?

That's a good idea. You might get practical help as well as money....if Kris wants it!

[dccruiser]

That didn't sound like a great experience. I'm glad the experience didn't put you off boating for life. Mine nearly did.

 

I'm still interested whether you think friends, family and medical appointments count as ties which don't qualify CC'ers in your book.

 

That's a good idea. You might get practical help as well as money....if Kris wants it!

When cruising i keep in touch with friends and family by phone, email or skype in the case of grandkids, they also have the option to meet us and stay over, Appointments with my doctor are monthly, so i just pull in a marina for a day or two as anywhere on the system is only a couple of hours away by train.

Should i need to stay in a particular area i would do as i currently do and maintain a home mooring.

 

Rick

[Tam & Di]

Oh dear. I never suggested scrapping all mooring restrictions and charges (where did that come from?).

 

I suggested scrapping the default 14 day law. Especially outside hot spots. It won't happen though, so don't worry. As for VM's, it might be good to create more now.

 

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but if what you call the "14 day law" is scrapped, what replaces it? I took you to mean that anyone could moor as long as they wished, but perhaps you mean something else. As for "free", that is de facto what the OP wants and I took it that you sympathise with that view. Do you mean there should in fact be a charge?

[mark99]

 

But you are talking to people with at least some interest in boating. If all mooring restrictions (and charges) were scrapped how long do you think it would be before those with no interest whatsoever in canals or boats but who simply wanted/needed some cheap/free hole to doss in would seize the opportunity. There would be plenty of others looking to make an easy buck from them by providing floating hovels too.

 

You're right that it would be happening in the larger towns and cities, but the reaction would come from those with far larger sticks than C&RT and would soon reflect on all users, the good the bad and the ugly.

 

edit as my post got itself truncated when I posted it

My thoughts exactly. Put people who have no choice (sad thought that may be) a choice to doss on the waterways without consequence and this tired old repetitive argument of a free for all falls flat. Edited June 23, 2015 by mark99

[bassplayer]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but if what you call the "14 day law" is scrapped, what replaces it? I took you to mean that anyone could moor as long as they wished, but perhaps you mean something else. As for "free", that is de facto what the OP wants and I took it that you sympathise with that view. Do you mean there should in fact be a charge?

I'm in a bit of a rock and hard place here because on one hand I'm being accused of churning out the same old rhetoric but at the same time not hearing many sensible counter arguments and have to repeat myself a lot because some people don't read the whole thread to get the context (I've done it myself mind). I'm always happy to be persuaded otherwise but recent insults make me wonder if there is any point.. Post 150 kind of summarises how I got here in relation to Kris's situation BTW.

 

The hot spots like London have a unique demand. I suggested that more official paid moorings could be created to accommodate this demand and benefits used accordingly. I'm keeping out of that discussion now as there are indeed many people in a better position to comment. Maybe it is a daft idea.

 

As regards 14 day spots where most of us wouldn't bother mooring, where existing CM'ers moor to keep out of our way, why not abolish the 14 day restriction? If a live aboard can cope with the lack of access and facilities and pay the licence fee, why not leave them to it? At least they are are still contributing and if they are not moving they are not adding to lock queues or using VM's.

 

The main argument against the idea is that marinas (and CRT to a degree) would lose business due to boaters taking their boats off a paid mooring and dumping it in one of these spots. I'm not convinced by this because they aren't just paying for a mooring, they are paying for security, utilities, social facilities etc. How many non-CC'ers would really give up their mooring for this? How many current non boat owners would actually go through with it and stuck with it?

 

There are advantages to this. Less money spent on enforcement (although some still required for VM's). Less boats moving around for no reason. Less boats using VM's. It might even encourage a few hardened live aboards out of the hot spots! A Ghetto? I doubt it....

[Paul C]

I'm in a bit of a rock and hard place here because on one hand I'm being accused of churning out the same old rhetoric but at the same time not hearing many sensible counter arguments and have to repeat myself a lot because some people don't read the whole thread to get the context (I've done it myself mind). I'm always happy to be persuaded otherwise but recent insults make me wonder if there is any point.. Post 150 kind of summarises how I got here in relation to Kris's situation BTW.

 

The hot spots like London have a unique demand. I suggested that more official paid moorings could be created to accommodate this demand and benefits used accordingly. I'm keeping out of that discussion now as there are indeed many people in a better position to comment. Maybe it is a daft idea.

 

As regards 14 day spots where most of us wouldn't bother mooring, where existing CM'ers moor to keep out of our way, why not abolish the 14 day restriction? If a live aboard can cope with the lack of access and facilities and pay the licence fee, why not leave them to it? At least they are are still contributing and if they are not moving they are not adding to lock queues or using VM's.

 

The main argument against the idea is that marinas (and CRT to a degree) would lose business due to boaters taking their boats off a paid mooring and dumping it in one of these spots. I'm not convinced by this because they aren't just paying for a mooring, they are paying for security, utilities, social facilities etc. How many non-CC'ers would really give up their mooring for this? How many current non boat owners would actually go through with it and stuck with it?

 

There are advantages to this. Less money spent on enforcement (although some still required for VM's). Less boats moving around for no reason. Less boats using VM's. It might even encourage a few hardened live aboards out of the hot spots! A Ghetto? I doubt it....

 

The main problem is Planning Law. Not even a national organisation as large as CRT can simply ignore planning law, everyone has to abide by it.

[Paul C]

Its not really about marinas losing business. Things can & do happen (changes in legislation, decisions by OFT, ombudsmen, etc) where businesses, or a large sector of a business type, overnight becomes unprofitable (or profitable). Yes if your idea actually occurred it would be a monumental step change in the provision of moorings, but this isn't a reason in itself to not do it - CRT don't "owe" marinas anything in that respect.

 

There's also the implication that because CRT indirectly receives quite a significant sum of money from boaters via moorings (EOG moorings, its own marinas and online moorings, and the NAA agreement), there would be a cost-neutral adjustment to some other income stream directly/indirectly from boaters. For example if they lost substantial income, a substantial increase in the licence fee would not be out of the question. You can imagine, genuine CCers who stay in one place far less than 14 days in spring/summer/autumn time, would be adversely affected by this, along with all other boaters. Another knock on effect would be that previously sustainable marina businesses would probably become unsustainable. Yes, a few marinas would still remain, but certainly not all, or not even most. This would leave those who still wanted a marina with less choice too - they'd have to choose a (probably further) marina, or the towpath. And I imagine the effect on online mooring providers, especially at the lower end, would be even greater.