Enforcement on the Bridgewater

[dogless]

Whilst in Castlefield, I spoke to a very pleasant chap who lives on a cream narrow beam dutch barge, and works in the city. He has been moored in Castlefield for quite some time and says he is in negotiation with the enforcement team with a view to paying a licence and mooring fee combined, to cover his continued presence.

 

His C&RT licence expired at the end of May, and he sought confirmation from the enforcement team that the combined mooring and licence scheme IS going to happen, before he allowed his C&RT licence to expire. He was so assured. He is awaiting developments, but clearly appears to have the 'ear' of enforcement.

 

Perhaps Dean should have a chat with this fellow. Sorry for the delay in posting but this is the first day the signal has been up to it.

Either way I hope Dean is able to quickly resolve a frustrating problem.

Regards

Rog

[Richard10002]

Does that mean that Peel will be selling liveaboard licences for Castlefield? I'd find that hard to believe. Although.... given they are currently providing free moorings there with no licence, providing you have their ear, perhaps they will be glad of the money? I think my £1000 licence allows me to stay there for 24 hours, probably per month? Looks like it's one rule for the rule abiders, and another for the rule breakers.

[pearley]

So why can't the two arms with the power bollards be let as permanent Moorings instead of being kept empty?

[frangar]

Given how busy they are with boats in transit I find it really annoying that they are even thinking of letting long term moorings there especially as has been said that there are other arms that could be used.....I might be firing an email off to peel pointing this out!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[dogless]

I didn't post with a view to causing anyone any issues, or to encourage complaints to Peel Holdings. I merely considered the information, which may be totally inaccurate, could be of interest to Dean.

Rog

[frangar]

I didn't post with a view to causing anyone any issues, or to encourage complaints to Peel Holdings. I merely considered the information, which may be totally inaccurate, could be of interest to Dean.

Rog

But you aren't the first person to post this news...dean himself had said much the same....and given the same boats being there and others getting told to move on sounds like something isn't quite kosher. It would be good for all concerned to know what's happening and what the rules...if there are any...are!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[ditchcrawler]

 

Be thankful that you are no longer required to buy a Rochdale Canal licence from the Ducie Street car park attendant.

Been there, done that.

[kevinl]

Given how busy they are with boats in transit I find it really annoying that they are even thinking of letting long term moorings there especially as has been said that there are other arms that could be used.....I might be firing an email off to peel pointing this out!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

What would the email say "I'm using your canal for free and I don't like the way you're running it"? Bridgewater licence holder were all written to and told "We are in the process of reorganising Castlefield as it is not working in its present configuration" part of it is no doubt down to the over stayers but another part is due to the flat dwellers there who have made numerous complaints the noise and the smoke being the main two, so both BCC and Manchester council want something done.

Given that the free access to the Bridgewater is a lot more useful to CRT licence holders than the few miles of canal CRT let me cruise for free I wouldn't go upsetting them, it might just be easier to make you pay for using it.

K

[frangar]

What would the email say "I'm using your canal for free and I don't like the way you're running it"? Bridgewater licence holder were all written to and told "We are in the process of reorganising Castlefield as it is not working in its present configuration" part of it is no doubt down to the over stayers but another part is due to the flat dwellers there who have made numerous complaints the noise and the smoke being the main two, so both BCC and Manchester council want something done.

Given that the free access to the Bridgewater is a lot more useful to CRT licence holders than the few miles of canal CRT let me cruise for free I wouldn't go upsetting them, it might just be easier to make you pay for using it.

K

I would suggest that boats in transit will cause less stress to the flat owners than the overstayers running engines and emptying elsans into the cut. They also probably spend more in the local area.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[DeanS]

Whilst in Castlefield, I spoke to a very pleasant chap who lives on a cream narrow beam dutch barge, and works in the city. He has been moored in Castlefield for quite some time and says he is in negotiation with the enforcement team with a view to paying a licence and mooring fee combined, to cover his continued presence.

 

His C&RT licence expired at the end of May, and he sought confirmation from the enforcement team that the combined mooring and licence scheme IS going to happen, before he allowed his C&RT licence to expire. He was so assured. He is awaiting developments, but clearly appears to have the 'ear' of enforcement.

 

Perhaps Dean should have a chat with this fellow. Sorry for the delay in posting but this is the first day the signal has been up to it.

Either way I hope Dean is able to quickly resolve a frustrating problem.

Regards

Rog

 

I did chat to him..and was astounded..lol

 

So why can't the two arms with the power bollards be let as permanent Moorings instead of being kept empty?

 

I sent photos of those moorings and asked if I could buy one...no answer.

[DeanS]

Bridgewater licence holder were all written to and told "We are in the process of reorganising Castlefield as it is not working in its present configuration"

 

In my conversation some time back with Peel, they insinuated the following:

 

1. Overstaying boats would be removed

2. Moorings will be designated and charged...about £240/mth

 

I said..."great!...put me on the list."

My recent mail asked..."am I on the list"....no answer.

 

...although maybe it's because I asked if I could stay for free, like the others...who were also seemingly..."on the list"....and that I was confused why I was being chased...when others seemed to be left alone. It's all a bit strange......difficult to know what's going on, what the plans are...who is on the list or not....etc etc

[Northernboater]

You have a real problem a while ago you had everyone on here having a go at you over Marcus you constantly have a go at me i think you need to go and get a life. For your information I stop at johnathon Wilsons moorings only stayed a few times on CV moorings and also you need to read my post few months not every month. I was there yesterday having a drink with friends didnt see your boat there either

 

Peter

Were you??? your boat was at Jonathan's this week??? As for Marcus why don't you ask your friends at Jonathan's what they think of that situation, especially the Lady who sold him the boat, as your close friend's. Peterboat are you off to answer his plea and the big charity crusade for cheap labour and help for his inexperienced cause? I have a holed Canadian maple canoe if anyone wants to pick it up fix and return for free, come on HELP

[nicknorman]

Were you??? your boat was at Jonathan's this week??? As for Marcus why don't you ask your friends at Jonathan's what they think of that situation, especially the Lady who sold him the boat, as your close friend's. Peterboat are you off to answer his plea and the big charity crusade for cheap labour and help for his inexperienced cause? I have a holed Canadian maple canoe if anyone wants to pick it up fix and return for free, come on HELP

There's only one thing worse than bickering and point scoring between two forumites, and that is bickering and point scoring with 7 days between each post! Too slow, man!

[kevinl]

and going off topic slagging other people off for no point

[Mac of Cygnet]

And almost totally incomprehensible as well.

[Dave Clinton]

And almost totally incomprehensible as well.

They are too busy spitting teeth to form a comprehensible or cogent paragraph.

 

I think what the knuckle-dragger is trying to say is that Marcus Wharry bought a bit of a pup from a woman of their ( he and Peterboat) acquaintance and ( I extrapolate) he would rather he do the Severn without a pilot than pursue his rather innovative attempt to raise finance and labour to restore a beautiful old launch.

 

(a service from Clinton's Translations Ltd. )

[Mac of Cygnet]

They are too busy spitting teeth to form a comprehensible or cogent paragraph.

 

I think what the knuckle-dragger is trying to say is that Marcus Wharry bought a bit of a pup from a woman of their ( he and Peterboat) acquaintance and ( I extrapolate) he would rather he do the Severn without a pilot than pursue his rather innovative attempt to raise finance and labour to restore a beautiful old launch.

 

(a service from Clinton's Translations Ltd. )

Thank you. I've always liked your birthday cards, but didn't know you did translations as well

[etrix123]

Hi, All.

Before I start I would just like to explain that I do not express any opinion but would just like to state what I as a Bridgewater licence holder have been told by the Enforcement officer and other canal users.

Mike Web, who was the Enforcement officer ( among other things) retired and a new officer was appointed his name is ”Sonny” He lives in a caravan at Preston Brook Marina where his wife is the manager, Preston Brook Marina is in the process of increasing the amount of moorings to include residential moorings.

Sonny`s remit is to try and get as many liveaboards into the marina as possible and off the Bridgewater Some may say this is a conflict of interest as his wife is the manager and his son deputy Sonny used to be the manager before taking the Enforcement job.

To date some forty boats have left the marina due to the management.

Sonny has been dropped into the canal and has had a black eye due to hi, some would say aggressive attitude.

Changes have been made to the rules and more are on the way.

In future any CRT boat that overstays the seven consecutive days in ONE YEAR will get a patrol notice, failure to leave the Bridgewater will leave the owner liable to a £250.00 fine if it is not paid it will be attached to the CRT licence renewal, paying the £15.00 and transferring ownership to someone else to avoid the fine will not be accepted.

Sonny intends to erect notices at all the honey spots stating that the mooring is for Bridgewater licence holders only this includes places like Lymm and some spaces at Castlefield.

Sonny is not just hounding CRT boaters he is making things awkward for Bridgewater boaters also.

With regard to wide beams there is no all out policy to bar them, one has just been licenced at Pickring Bridge Moorings, the boat has been on the Bridgewater for a number of years moored at Ootringham without a licence, the boat is still at Ootringham the owner has no intention of using the mooring, he just wanted a licence.

There are boats in Castlefield that have been on the Bridgewater for over five years, no licence or number it would seem that if your face fits….. maybe I should stop there!

Again I am just a live aboard boater on the Bridgewater that just wants to continue living there without all the hassle.

This is my opinion, If the Bridgewater Company have never enforced the rules for over 50 years, how can they just start now is there not some rule called “Custom and Practice” ?

With regard to the funny looking Dutch green boat that was moored at sale it has been on the Bridgwater for 4 years, no licence or number it got a patrol notice at Sale it was moved but not because of the patrol notice it was moved to a boat yard to have work carried out.

Please don`t shoot the messenger ! I am only telling it like it is.

Hi, All.

Before I start I would just like to explain that I do not express any opinion but would just like to state what I as a Bridgewater licence holder have been told by the Enforcement officer and other canal users.

Mike Web, who was the Enforcement officer ( among other things) retired and a new officer was appointed his name is ”Sonny” He lives in a caravan at Preston Brook Marina where his wife is the manager, Preston Brook Marina is in the process of increasing the amount of moorings to include residential moorings.

Sonny`s remit is to try and get as many liveaboards into the marina as possible and off the Bridgewater Some may say this is a conflict of interest as his wife is the manager and his son deputy Sonny used to be the manager before taking the Enforcement job.

To date some forty boats have left the marina due to the management.

Sonny has been dropped into the canal and has had a black eye due to hi, some would say aggressive attitude.

Changes have been made to the rules and more are on the way.

In future any CRT boat that overstays the seven consecutive days in ONE YEAR will get a patrol notice, failure to leave the Bridgewater will leave the owner liable to a £250.00 fine if it is not paid it will be attached to the CRT licence renewal, paying the £15.00 and transferring ownership to someone else to avoid the fine will not be accepted.

Sonny intends to erect notices at all the honey spots stating that the mooring is for Bridgewater licence holders only this includes places like Lymm and some spaces at Castlefield.

Sonny is not just hounding CRT boaters he is making things awkward for Bridgewater boaters also.

With regard to wide beams there is no all out policy to bar them, one has just been licenced at Pickring Bridge Moorings, the boat has been on the Bridgewater for a number of years moored at Ottringham without a licence, the boat is still at Ottringham the owner has no intention of using the mooring, he just wanted a licence.... if your face fits, maybe I should stop there!

There are boats in Castlefield that have been on the Bridgewater for over five years, no licence or number it would seem that if your face fits….. I`ll stop there!

Again I am just a live aboard boater on the Bridgewater that just wants to continue living there without all the hassle.

This is my opinion, If the Bridgewater Company have never enforced the rules for over 50 years, how can they just start now is there not some rule called “Custom and Practice” ?

With regard to the funny looking Dutch green boat that was moored at sale it has been on the Bridgwater for 4 years, no licence or number it got a patrol notice at Sale it was moved but not because of the patrol notice it was moved to a boat yard to have work carried out.

Please don`t shoot the messenger ! I am only telling it like it is.

Sorry but I cannot put a name to this for Obvious reasons!

[Paul C]

etrix123 - firstly, welcome to the forum.

 

I would be interested in the underlying legislation which allows the type of enforcement suggested in the above. For example, I don't know the exact details of the wording on the Bridgewater legislation but I do know that CRT are legally unable to "attach" fines to next year's licence renewal, of course they might try to not issue a licence then a judicial review process must be taken against them (for which legal aid isn't possible....and costs about the same as a CRT licence....) Also, I can't understand why CRT would act as debt collector and be willing to do this on behalf of another navigation authority - after all its basically illegal.

 

If he is acting without legal authority then he is (in theory) exposed to comeback in the courts. Would be an interesting one to see what happens here.

[frangar]

Seven days in a year makes through transits to Liverpool and the Lancaster and return amusing...,,oh well if I ever get back off the Lancaster I may well be putting this to the test!.....there is a problem with overstaying in certain places like Castlefield and Lymm but as has been said like certain boats on CRT waters they seem to be untouchable!

 

Edited to add

 

Limiting the moorings to Bridgewater licence holders at certain places would be less than helpful given the lack of suitable other moorings especially now the towpath has all been "improved".

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Edited August 1, 2015 by frangar

[Paul C]

Seven days in a year makes through transits to Liverpool and the Lancaster and return amusing...,,oh well if I ever get back off the Lancaster I may well be putting this to the test!.....there is a problem with overstaying in certain places like Castlefield and Lymm but as has been said like certain boats on CRT waters they seem to be untouchable!

 

Edited to add

 

Limiting the moorings to Bridgewater licence holders at certain places would be less than helpful given the lack of suitable other moorings especially now the towpath has all been "improved".

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

AFAIK the reciprocal agreement is just that - an agreement. Its not protected by law or anything. So, the Bridgewater management could theoretically tear it up. They'd be unable to effectively enforce it though....after all its not like there's toll booths etc.

[MisterDave]

In future any CRT boat that overstays the seven consecutive days in ONE YEAR will get a patrol notice, failure to leave the Bridgewater will leave the owner liable to a £250.00 fine if it is not paid it will be attached to the CRT licence renewal, paying the £15.00 and transferring ownership to someone else to avoid the fine will not be accepted.

 

 

So Peel think they can transfer the "debt" onto the new owner of a boat? Is this in writing anywhere? Sounds pretty unrealistic to me!

[AndrewIC]

FOI request to CRT for the exact terms of the agreement, perhaps?

[Paul C]

FOI request to CRT for the exact terms of the agreement, perhaps?

 

The exact terms of the agreement (as it relates to the boater) is AFAIK published on the Bridgewater Canal website - worth a save of this with date/time. Whether there's any underlying contracts that aren't published, between them, who knows? I'd like to see examples of the debt passed between navigation authorities before I can actually believe CRT (can) do this, since they can't even for their own "debts" - and its quite clear in law they can't.

[furnessvale]

FOI request to CRT for the exact terms of the agreement, perhaps?

Are CRT any better at replying to FOI requests than BW were?

 

George ex nb Alton retired