Ham Baker paddles/Hatton Lock 34 Open Day Merged

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Entirely true, however that doesn't help the folk who subsequently encounter the broken paddle not those who suffer in other ways due to funds being diverted to repair the broken paddle. It is a 200+ year old system (well, not those paddles admittedly) and it is unhelpful to take a position that the infrastructure should be used as originally intended without a care because CRT have a duty to fix anything that breaks.

There is often a paddle or two out of operation on the Hatton flight. Currently, lock 44 has a paddle gear chained up. Hopefully, it will be fixed before the flight is reopened.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Allan(nb Albert)

[billS]

I went down the Calcutt three last summer with a CRT crew (including a senior chap with a clipboard) who were doing a winter maintenance planning survey. They very kindly worked all the locks, and invariably let the paddle fall under gravity.

 

Since then I have followed suit.

[David Schweizer]

With regard to lowering the paddles, whether or not they have been maintained they are very heavy. Most paddle gear will lower itself but takes minimal effort from the operator to slow or stop this, I should imagine that a smooth running Ham and Baker gear is almost unstoppable, so regardless of whether dropping it damages the paddle attempting to arrest this damages the operator. I know it's anecdotal but I recall a spokesman for a Warwick Hospital saying they got "one or two windlass injuries every week" in summer.

 

I haven't been this way for a while, but I'm sure I used to let them drop and then check they'd gone all the way - not quite finishing was much more common than a loud clang, and potentially much more disruptive. My parents recall accidentally emptying a pound at Hatton in the 60's when there was still regular traffic, a working boatman assured them they weren't the first and wouldn't be the last.

 

Quite the reverse Patrick. Because of the triple gearing, they are very easy to stop with your hand. I have always done it like that, although these days i do prefer to wear a strong glove whilst doing it.

[nicknorman]

Whilst braking by hand seems a little daunting, once you have plucked up the courage to do it it is a bit of a non-event. If there ever were any sharp edges on the spindles, they have long since been worn smooth.

[alan_fincher]

I must be getting a wimp, I think, but I never much like braking the fastest running ones of those with an ungloved hand, (or even my largely unloved hands!).

 

The problem with slowing a lot of them with your hand, is that they then run slow enough that they can't make it all the way own without helping for the final few turns.

 

Left to run free, they might well have done, and very few actually hit the bottom very hard.

 

I have certainly witnessed permanent BW or CRT staff just letting them fall under their own steam in recent years, so I had rather assumed the "wind them down" thing to be a volunteer speciality.

 

I suppose one could approach CRT for a definitive answer, but you would probably end up with the "book" answer as gleaned from Boaters Handbook, or similar, rather than one from someone who really knows to what extent the age of these things, or any missing parts might be causing unplanned damage if they are allowed to fall.

[john6767]

Mooring at Calcutt we use paddles these every time we go out on the boat.

 

Winding them down is not good, but as has been said there are some that do drop faster and stop with more of a "clang" than you would want. There are also some that go down very slowly and stop before fully closed, so I usually put a windlass on when it has run down to make certain it is all the way down.

 

The worst thing about dropping them is the looks you get from some people; often hirers who have of course been told the general rule to not let paddles drop. I suspect the volunteers are working to the same instructions, "always wind them down", with no special regard to this design.

[Theo]

There is enough common ground between the tow topics to warrant merging.

 

N

[magpie patrick]

 

Quite the reverse Patrick. Because of the triple gearing, they are very easy to stop with your hand. I have always done it like that, although these days i do prefer to wear a strong glove whilst doing it.

 

That does surprise me I must admit, and I haven't tried it. But braking them with a gloved hand isn't winding them down is it? Which is where Laurence's post started, it's just a different way of letting them drop, rather like slowing gate paddle gear with the hand on the long connecting spindle.

 

I've slowed conventional ground paddles with my hand, even dropped them completely without a windlass by grabbing the spindle, lifting the gear enough to take the pawl off, and then slowing the descent.

[16csvt]

I also went for a look at lock 34 on Sunday.

Very interesting. I didn't realise the extent of the fresh water mussel problem.

Put a couple of quid in the tin as the paid employees were not able to be overly productive due to having to shepherd the public round.

Lots of public about, the cafe further up must have done a roaring trade.

 

The only thing that spoilt it / annoyed me was getting professionally 'chugged' on the way from lock34 to the cafe.

It wouldn't have been quite so bad if only the chugger had some knowledge of the canals.

 

Regards to all

Kevin

Now then Big BobW, about these dogs, and the 8 acre problem

[Alan Saunders]

It is nearly twenty years (1995) since I first descended Hatton. On a very hot day, I waited nearly an hour for another boat to join us to save water; my 12 year old daughter was competant crew and my eight year old son could hold ropes etc. Joined by a marvellous, efficient, couple who said that opening a single paddle only cost five minutes per lock. They emptied their porta-potti at one lock and bought ice-creams for both of my children at another (despite my protest that they had already had an ice-cream that day) all without impeding our progress. The waterways need more knowledgeable, friendly, helpful boaters like them and less know-it-all, arrogant, non-boating CRT employees and volunteers.

 

Those paddles were hard work to raise on a hot day. Did we 'drop them' - probably. Did we ensure that they were fully closed - always, as with every other paddle of whatever design.

 

N.B. On most other paddle gear the closed limit is reached when the 'paddle' reaches the bottom of its recess. The ratchet on the Ham Baker gear appears to be of inadequate depth, so that when worn it might slip but then grab the rapidly descending paddle and break the cast iron pawl pivot. Alternatvely, an operator may have let go of the pawl, as you can with most paddle gear. 200 years of development have failed to produce 'boater-proof', let alone idiot-proof, reliable paddle gear.

 

Alan

[nicknorman]

The ratchet on the Ham Baker gear appears to be of inadequate depth, so that when worn it might slip but then grab the rapidly descending paddle and break the cast iron pawl pivot. Alternatvely, an operator may have let go of the pawl, as you can with most paddle gear. 200 years of development have failed to produce 'boater-proof', let alone idiot-proof, reliable paddle gear.

 

Alan

??? What "ratchet" or "cast iron pawl pivot"?

 

But I agree with the rest of your points.

[Laurence Hogg]

It is nearly twenty years (1995) since I first descended Hatton. On a very hot day, I waited nearly an hour for another boat to join us to save water; my 12 year old daughter was competant crew and my eight year old son could hold ropes etc. Joined by a marvellous, efficient, couple who said that opening a single paddle only cost five minutes per lock. They emptied their porta-potti at one lock and bought ice-creams for both of my children at another (despite my protest that they had already had an ice-cream that day) all without impeding our progress. The waterways need more knowledgeable, friendly, helpful boaters like them and less know-it-all, arrogant, non-boating CRT employees and volunteers.

 

Those paddles were hard work to raise on a hot day. Did we 'drop them' - probably. Did we ensure that they were fully closed - always, as with every other paddle of whatever design.

 

N.B. On most other paddle gear the closed limit is reached when the 'paddle' reaches the bottom of its recess. The ratchet on the Ham Baker gear appears to be of inadequate depth, so that when worn it might slip but then grab the rapidly descending paddle and break the cast iron pawl pivot. Alternatvely, an operator may have let go of the pawl, as you can with most paddle gear. 200 years of development have failed to produce 'boater-proof', let alone idiot-proof, reliable paddle gear.

 

Alan

 

Don't think your memory is serving you well, there is no ratchet on Ham Baker gear, just a clamp on a chain to keep them up, the original locking devices have all gone years ago and they were not ratchets either.

[Mal in Somerset]

I came down Hatton today. When lowering the paddles I used a windlass with a soft grip to see whether they would self drop. Most descended but needed a little help towards the bottom. None dropped uncontrollably.

.

[madcat]

I wind them down for purely selfish reasons , the exercise is good for my grumpy shoulder. It's a lot better but needs a bit of looking after.

[Laurence Hogg]

I wind them down for purely selfish reasons , the exercise is good for my grumpy shoulder. It's a lot better but needs a bit of looking after.

You get one "run away" and you will have a grumpy arm!

[Laurie Booth]

Yes I asked him about the Hahn Baker (sp?) paddle gear. He was not aware that it was designed to be dropped, and said spares were increasigly scarce.

Well CRT must stop using Halford's for spares.

[Mal in Somerset]

Also we came down breasted up. The lockkeepers did point out that there was a problem with the gate at lock 43 however we were already through that lock by then and we got through without touching either gate.

 

The only person to complain was a boater coming up who claimed we were holding him up????!!!

[Iain_S]

On our recent trip, we descended Knowle and Hatton, and ascended the Stockton flight.

 

Some of the paddles (mostly on Hatton) had notices stuck on them, stating that paddles were to be wound down, and not dropped. I found that, contrary to the last time we passed that way, the majority of the paddles, if dropped, tended to descend rather violently, rather than the slow descent expected. I found that winding the paddles down was a bit tricky, as the windlass tends to come off the square spindle. 

 

Knowle was noticeably better than Hatton or Stockton, and I suspect the root problem is lack of maintenance, which would surely  be cheaper in the long run than the busted paddles which seem inevitable if the issue is not addressed, and save the time taken to print out notices, laminate them, and stick them on the occasional paddle!

 

 

 

[john6767]

1 minute ago, Iain_S said:

On our recent trip, we descended Knowle and Hatton, and ascended the Stockton flight.

 

Some of the paddles (mostly on Hatton) had notices stuck on them, stating that paddles were to be wound down, and not dropped. I found that, contrary to the last time we passed that way, the majority of the paddles, if dropped, tended to descend rather violently, rather than the slow descent expected. I found that winding the paddles down was a bit tricky, as the windlass tends to come off the square spindle. 

 

Knowle was noticeably better than Hatton or Stockton, and I suspect the root problem is lack of maintenance, which would surely  be cheaper in the long run than the busted paddles which seem inevitable if the issue is not addressed, and save the time taken to print out notices, laminate them, and stick them on the occasional paddle!

 

 

 

Yes I would agree with that, we wind them down now as too many of them now go down too fast, and the buffer is missing when they get to the bottom.  Not done Knowle for a few years now, but that gets considerably less use than the others, so it is reasonable to think that it is not deteriorating as fast.

[RLWP]

I tend to brake them with my hand

 

For me the problem isn't the ones that drop to quickly, it's the ones that don't drop at all!

 

Richard

[X Alan W]

On 15/02/2015 at 22:28, Ray T said:

Bunbury Shuffle at Chester:

 

 

 

Video by Bargeeboy.

Why is it called the BUNBURY SHUFFLE & not the NORTH GATE SHUFFLE ? It could be carrierd out in BUNBURY

[john6767]

11 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Why is it called the BUNBURY SHUFFLE & not the NORTH GATE SHUFFLE ? It could be carrierd out in BUNBURY

Presumably after Bunbury staircase, which is a wide two lock staircase so you can shuffle 3 boats through it.

[X Alan W]

Regarding the Ham/Baker lock being closed I have no idea if they are still present but "Back in the day" a white painted sight indicator rod rose out of the top of the paddle gear body when you wound up the paddle giving an indication on how much paddle was drawn Any rod showing denoted paddle was not fully closed. Used for at a distance checking up close you can view the threaded paddle rod is fully seated on the bump rubber if still there through the sight window in the gear body around the windlass spigot

[john6767]

1 minute ago, X Alan W said:

Regarding the Ham/Baker lock being closed I have no idea if they are still present but "Back in the day" a white painted sight indicator rod rose out of the top of the paddle gear body when you wound up the paddle giving an indication on how much paddle was drawn Any rod showing denoted paddle was not fully closed. Used for at a distance checking up close you can view the threaded paddle rod is fully seated on the bump rubber if still there through the sight window in the gear body around the windlass spigot

The rod is there on all the locks, with varying amounts of white paint.  Someof them also have a U shaped piece of metal on the end of the rod, also painted white, so there is more to see.  It is not that hard to spot when one has been left up, like when we followed 2 hire boats down Stockton and the left both bottom gates open and both paddles up, nice work.

[Ray T]

4 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Regarding the Ham/Baker lock being closed I have no idea if they are still present but "Back in the day" a white painted sight indicator rod rose out of the top of the paddle gear body when you wound up the paddle giving an indication on how much paddle was drawn Any rod showing denoted paddle was not fully closed. Used for at a distance checking up close you can view the threaded paddle rod is fully seated on the bump rubber if still there through the sight window in the gear body around the windlass spigot

Rod still there on all I have seen. Some have an inverted U bracket on top of the rod which fits over the top of the "candle stick" when closed

 

Crossed post with John.

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Ray T