BCN Christmas challenge

[NB Alton]

Sorry I cannot help physically, but it sounds like a similar problem I had on Alton quite a few years back, where as others have said the rudder was jammed against the skeg. I tried for hours with crow bars, ropes, scissor jacks but to no avail. In the end a friend came out with a very compact but strong trolley jack that we used under the bottom of the swans neck / Z iron & this just popped it back up. To avoid it happening again we placed a loose piece over the rudder stock so the the rudder could not fall so far as to jam against the skeg (George's good idea).

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Cheers, Brian

[davidg]

Have you tried lifting the collar out of the top of the rudder tube? If it is like mine (and see the photo of Fulbourne) there sufficient room to lift the collar clear of the tube which gives much more wiggle room at the top of the rudder stock & should clear any jamming.

 

Lifting the collar might involve wooden wedges & a hammer or find something to lever it up under the lip which normally overhangs the top of the rudder tube.

 

Watch your fingers because if it does unjam the rudder & rams head is likely to drop a bit.

[Mike Todd]

If all of the sugestions so far for lifting and turning, where you are, have failed then it definitely sounds more complex with a probability of damage. It seems to me v unlikely that you will be able to work out what has happened by speculation - too many options. You need to ascertain where the rudder, skeg and boat are in relation to each other. Two choices: either you remove the water from around the boat and the traditional way was to cill it. (I have done this once very very many moons ago in a boat before weed hatches were fitted and picked up a large coil of barbed wire but it is safer to do it with at least one helper as you need to do things v slowly but be prepared to act fast if things go astray) You need to make sure you have a lock with sufficient cill to go under the hull and not just catch the skeg, thus bending it even more!.

 

The other choice is to get into the water, at least in a way that will enable you to feel with your hand (yes I know it is v cold!) what has happened.

 

Only when you have established the present situation can you sort out a useful course of action (all the obvious ones having by now being eliminated)

 

If the damage is significant then you may have to get a tow - or a very long bow haul - to a dry dock.

 

Lifting the rudder last happened to us a year ago, reversing out of a small marina and catching the sloping stones on the side of the North Oxford. The very helpful chaps at the marina we were just exiting were able to manipulate it back in but it did seem to me that they had a much better mental map of the invisible situation below water than I had! Comes from experience, I guess . . .

[matty40s]

 

Looking at all the helpful suggestions above, a big thank you.

Baldock tiller arm usually sits at 250 degrees, so sitting at 270, the rudder has obviously moved forward and jammed at an angle on the skeg.

Car jack here, moving boat down to the stop lock now.

P&J have just come under the same bridge and had a very big rock and roll so it is definitely something large under there, according to the great crew at the Harris &Moore Fine Art Centre, it is a regular dumping site.

[bassplayer]

 

Looking at all the helpful suggestions above, a big thank you.

Baldock tiller arm usually sits at 250 degrees, so sitting at 270, the rudder has obviously moved forward and jammed at an angle on the skeg.

Car jack here, moving boat down to the stop lock now.

P&J have just come under the same bridge and had a very big rock and roll so it is definitely something large under there, according to the great crew at the Harris &Moore Fine Art Centre, it is a regular dumping site.

If that rear fender has loads of rotten strands hanging down (like it did on ours once), it might be worth pulling them off in case they foul things up. Good luck Matty, I'd be really interested to see what it looks like.

[matty40s]

Engine will not start, fuel lines full of water And gunge, off to get new filters, then drain day tank to see if that's full of water too.

[Tim Lewis]

I've tried blowing up the photos of Fulbourne and it looks as though the skeg is actually flat on top. I've looked at photos of mine (probably not relevant) when it was out for blacking and it is a T-shaped piece of metal, flat on top with a cross piece welded underneath to give stiffness. If you were travelling forwards when it happened it seems odd that the rudder would have dislodged onto the front edge of the cup, I would have thought if it were going to dislodge it would go onto the rear of the cup. That said, it seems odd that you were able to go for 50 yards before it jammed solid. I'm not disputing anything that you are saying though, just thinking out loud. Along with the comment of Alan F I can't think of what would jam the rudder solid, when they come out of the cup they can be a real pig but they do still move (a bit!)

 

 

Picture of Fulbourne's skeg:

 

 

Tim

[b0atman]

Grass looks like you missed last cut of the season I shall ring Richard Parry for you

[alan_fincher]

 

 

 

This looks slightly odd to my eye, although I don't have Harland and Wolff boats.

 

It looks to me like that big red disk is solid attached to the rudder shaft, rather than being a loose cap in which it rotates, (and which it would slip down through, if dislodged).

 

Can you confirm the twoo are, as they appera, all joined together.

 

If so, has it settled down on to whatever is underneath that, or is there any space below it?

 

I'm not convinced it is "original equipment", or even like original equipment, but I don't know how H&W boats work.

[matty40s]

the fuel tank, day tank and fuel lines were full of gunge, as were the filters. Off to get filters and marine 16. Back on board, rob continued with the fuel system whilst I tackled the rudder. One destroyed car jack later and the sledge hammer with mooring spike method of gentle persuasion was used.

By using blocks of wood as a lever point, steadily banging from beneath the cup raised the tiller until it unnamed and we managed to rest it on the skeg. Picture above.

fuel system purged, and then engine started properly.

so next, down to the bridge by typhoo turn, a lucky cracking in the concrete managed to hold a mooring spike, with back end directly under bridge rails.

[RLWP]

Very stuck then

 

There's an excellent Indian Restaurant in Digbeth

 

Richard

Edited December 20, 2014 by RLWP

[Barry]

There is too!

[ChimneyChain]

Why don't you cill the boat to see what's needed. (Obviously if there's a lock nearby)

 

Darren

[matty40s]

 

we used a rope through the rudder eye, looped it and then tried to lift with the ratchet. After 20 minutes of doing this, Rob cleverly spotted that we were trying to lift Baldock with a ratchet, the rudder must have been touching the uxter plate! !

so loosen off the ratchet, use the block and tackle instead , so we can raise and lower easily.after another 10 minutes, Kerplunnk, tiller in the 'ole.

 

so it was reverse back to the laser Arts boats to drop Robs kit off and then a swift ascent of the Ashtead flight as dark descended.

[Barry]

Weyhey! All sorted then?

 

Its been quite exciting following this

[dave moore]

Well done! Hope you'll have less hassle for the rest of the trip, I could touch base by car tomorrow if you need anything, just pm me.

 

Dave

[matty40s]

A massive thanks to p6Rob of this forum and his young lad Dominic who came to help today. Also to Alison and all her friends at Da Vinci Crafts who assisted in every way possible.
..and to all on here with all your good advice and helpful pic's, and for keeping the forum going while I was busy!!
Lastly, thanks to Kathy for the lift and just being wonderful.

Edited December 20, 2014 by matty40s

[bizzard]

I think that the round disc is a weight to help reduce tiller vibration. I've seen quite a few. In fact moored in front of me at the mo is an ex Alvechurch hire boat with a small weight lifters bar weight in the same place.

Must be a lot of lopsided weight lifters knocking about hunting for missing weights.

Edited December 20, 2014 by bizzard

[p6rob]

That was an interesting experience. First time aboard a boat with an engine room and first time getting a full length boat through locks.

Despite no lift pump, the fuel system was dead easy to bleed and seemed to run really nicely once the water contamination was dealt with.

Learned a lot too, which is always a bonus.

[David Mack]

I've tried blowing up the photos of Fulbourne and it looks as though the skeg is actually flat on top. I've looked at photos of mine (probably not relevant) when it was out for blacking and it is a T-shaped piece of metal, flat on top with a cross piece welded underneath to give stiffness.

As Tim's photo (and the photos of Sculptor) shows, the skeg is part of a larger casting which includes the the stern post to which the side plates are rivetted. The cup is part of the casting. On modern boats the skeg is usually a rectangular or box or T section welded to the bottom of the hull, with a short piece of tube welded to the top to form the cup.

 

That certainly isn't the original fitting. The Z iron looks to be new - or at least the bottom piece which attaches to the rudder shaft is. The collar also is a different shape to others I have seen. Does the shaft rotate in that collar - there doesn't look to be a gap? If the whole collar rotates with the rudder shaft I would expect a lot more frictional resistance which will make steering heavy..

[kathleen bridget]

A massive thanks to p6Rob of this forum and his young lad Dominic who came to help today. Also to Alison and all her friends at Da Vinci Crafts who assisted in every way possible.

..and to all on here with all your good advice and helpful pic's, and for keeping the forum going while I was busy!!

Lastly, thanks to Kathy for the lift and just being wonderful.

You are very welcomen so glad that you and Rob fixed the problems

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Glad that you managed to get the problem sorted, sorry I didn't get there to assist, it took me longer in Nuneaton than I originally planned. When I got back to Brum it was starting to get late and to be honest I don't know the roads here very well (I can find my way round the canals!). Three attempts to find Typhoo Wharf by road kept bringing me back to The Bullring. When I later then found myself at Snow Hill Station I decided that I really ought to get a map

[Dave_P]

That'll teach me to forget to come on the forum for a couple of days! Sorry! I was in Digbeth yesterday anyway! Glad you got it sorted. Any similar problems, pm me.

[matty40s]

Ah, it was all going so well....

A few practice pieces of clothing up farmers bridge flight, and now rubber tubing and cable outer sheaths,, been doing this an hour and have only got 6 feet off it so far....

[RLWP]

<Richard enjoys the smug satisfaction of owning a weedhatch>