Absolutely mental mooring price

[jenlyn]

https://www.crtmoorings.com/auctions/full_auction_history.php?vacancy_id=6199

[jonno22]

lkie I just said in another thread, the mooring auctions are a disgrace.

[Athy]

On the face of it, yes. But what would a flat in the area cost? Perhaps more than the £200 a week which the mooring is going to cost lucky ol' Holly Lass.

lkie I just said in another thread, the mooring auctions are a disgrace.

Why? No one is forced to bid.

[junior]

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=65449&page=2#entry1279141

[Starcoaster]

Post 37, this auction is a prime candidate: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57859&page=2

 

Article on moorings auction fraud and upcoming changes in this month's Towpath Talk.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Starcoaster

[jonno22]

 

Why? No one is forced to bid.

because people were bumped off the waiting lists when they'd been waiting for ages in good faith in 2007 who coulndt aford the auction price but could afford and plan for a fixed price

[Athy]

Fair point. As I have never had a BW or CART mooring I didn't know (or had forgotten) that the system used to be different.

[haggis]

Could this "manipulation" of the bidding system not be stopped if all bids were automatically emailed by CRT and the bid only accepted when a confirmation reply (which could include encryption for added security) was received? If the bidding email was false, the creator would not get the email asking for confirmation and the bid would not be taken by CRT. I am probably missing something but that was my first thought (as a long time ago systems designer).

haggis

Edited April 3, 2014 by haggis

[bigcol]

Those prices. isn't it cheaper to moor in a private marina.

Surly there can't be much difference in prices between CRT moorings

and booking into a marina with all the facilities!

 

Col

[magnetman]

Maybe people do actually think they are bidding for a 3 year contract... at the bid value... obviously it is 3x bid value for full term

 

I think the auctions are a Good Thing if CRT get sensible money for prime sites

[churchward]

Those prices. isn't it cheaper to moor in a private marina.

Surly there can't be much difference in prices between CRT moorings

and booking into a marina with all the facilities!

 

Col

In almost all places that must be true but I guess London goes by another paradigm.

 

My marina is £1800 for a 50ft boat.

[jenlyn]

Maybe people do actually think they are bidding for a 3 year contract... at the bid value... obviously it is 3x bid value for full term

I think the auctions are a Good Thing if CRT get sensible money for prime sites

If prices continue like that, I suspect marina's will take advantage.....

[Dave_P]

Post 37, this auction is a prime candidate: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57859&page=2

 

Article on moorings auction fraud and upcoming changes in this month's Towpath Talk.

Starcoaster - enough stealing my ideas now! http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55880&p=1059545 post #9

Edited April 3, 2014 by Dave_P

[churchward]

Maybe people do actually think they are bidding for a 3 year contract... at the bid value... obviously it is 3x bid value for full term

 

I think the auctions are a Good Thing if CRT get sensible money for prime sites

I must admit I am unsure what I think of the mooring auctions process. On one hand if it is all above board and market forces/demand is forcing these kind of bids then one way to look at it is that it is £9K into CRT coffers and a chunk of money not having to be raised by other means so good show.

 

On the other hand if the auction process is being abused then that needs to be addressed to make it fair to everyone.

 

I still think if some Dumdum is prepared to pay £9K per year it help CRTs revenue position but it should be a fair auction.

[Dave_P]

Could this "manipulation" of the bidding system not be stopped if all bids were automatically emailed by CRT and the bid only accepted when a confirmation reply (which could include encryption for added security) was received? If the bidding email was false, the creator would not get the email asking for confirmation and the bid would not be taken by CRT. I am probably missing something but that was my first thought (as a long time ago systems designer).

haggis

The email is real but it's a duplicate address which is virtually untraceable.

This is a particularly suspicious looking auction. The site doesn't even have mooring rings - let alone electricity! If it's been manipulated then the manipulator has created multiple aliases. The way to be sure is to keep and eye on it and see if the winning bid is dramatically revised down in the next couple of months.

[Paul G2]

The email is real but it's a duplicate address which is virtually untraceable.

This is a particularly suspicious looking auction. The site doesn't even have mooring rings - let alone electricity! If it's been manipulated then the manipulator has created multiple aliases. The way to be sure is to keep and eye on it and see if the winning bid is dramatically revised down in the next couple of months.

 

It's interesting too to look at the times that the bidding was taking place. Some of those bids were auto-generated, but others were placed manually. Is the CRT auction website a real-time site where bidders can actually see bids as they happen and respond immediately?

[Paul C]

Post 37, this auction is a prime candidate: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57859&page=2

 

Article on moorings auction fraud and upcoming changes in this month's Towpath Talk.

 

Looks possible in this instance. If its proven to be so, then there should be a more robust way to 1) conduct the auctions in general and 2) determine whether the winner should be the 1st bidder (a low bid, possibly) or void the auction and rerun it.

[Lampyrichard]

 

It's interesting too to look at the times that the bidding was taking place. Some of those bids were auto-generated, but others were placed manually. Is the CRT auction website a real-time site where bidders can actually see bids as they happen and respond immediately?

 

Yes.

 

There's also a 'time out' lock at the end of the process to try to stop 'sniping' type tools. There has to be a clear 15 minutes after the last bid has been paced before the auction can end - the system keeps extending the end time until this has happened.

 

I know this works in practice as that's what happened when I bid on our CRT mooring - 2 of us were bidding against each other as the closing time came around, so the end time kept being extended until there had been 15 minutes with no activity after my last bid.

[Speedwheel]

because people were bumped off the waiting lists when they'd been waiting for ages in good faith in 2007 who coulndt aford the auction price but could afford and plan for a fixed price

 

CaRT have a duty to get best value for their moorings. It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. You wouldn't expect a house to be let for less than it's market value, you wouldn't expect to be able to buy a car for less than market value - so why should they let a mooring for anything less than it's market value?

[Lady Muck]

Could this "manipulation" of the bidding system not be stopped if all bids were automatically emailed by CRT and the bid only accepted when a confirmation reply (which could include encryption for added security) was received? If the bidding email was false, the creator would not get the email asking for confirmation and the bid would not be taken by CRT. I am probably missing something but that was my first thought (as a long time ago systems designer).

haggis

Its not manipulation, its 2 or 3 desperate people bidding against each other, I usually know the people who win these moorings, the last 2 went to cruisers who were in a desperate situation - not in a position to cruise, facing section 8, one of them, my friend, its taken her 5 years of trying to win a mooring here and she had a big budget.

Where we moor is in demand - its near the tube - 20 mins to Oxford Circus. Off street, secure parking, at the site, right next to your boat in most cases and room for big vehicles, campers etc.

Lots of bankside, over there its nice as you're on an island and theres a pretty stream behind the mooring, too, with lots of wildlife.

You can moor a widebeam there.

I know 2 that fell through, one was CRT error (wrong measurements in the ad) and another boater error, pressed wrong button on keyboard, shes gutted as shes not allowed to bid anymore.

Its £1200 a month to rent the nearest flat, go figure it out....

And people will always always prefer up here with no services to swinging about on a pontoon at Limehouse - its the land that comes with it and the privacy and the parking and the proximity to tube for getting into town. You can always get a huge solar array for electric (plus its really windy here so a genny will work)and that is what people do.

I dread to think how much next one will go for on ours, we have water and elec here.

If prices continue like that, I suspect marina's will take advantage.....

Its already about that price at the nearest marina (and thats no elec and unserviced as well). Don't forget the unserviced moorings at Leyton Marsh, being snapped up at £300 a month - more than what I pay for full services!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Lady Muck

[Lady Muck]

Eta this is the nearest apartment to rent to that site.

 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-43700998.html/svr/2705;jsessionid=F3DCA97D908095A15E2215DFE1C8F2D8

 

No pets, no smoking, no kids, need to have a salary, that rules out most boaters up here, can you see why these silly prices happen?

Edited April 3, 2014 by Lady Muck

[luctor et emergo]

What price the revolution?

[Lady Muck]

Yep. There is a man camping in a tent made from a bedspread with sticks for pegs, in the shadow of those flats. Saw him this morning.

[jenlyn]

Eta this is the nearest apartment to rent to that site. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-43700998.html/svr/2705;jsessionid=F3DCA97D908095A15E2215DFE1C8F2D8

No pets, no smoking, no kids, need to have a salary, that rules out most boaters up here, can you see why these silly prices happen?

Electric, hot and cold water, legal protection, maintenance probably inclusive, postal address and electoral role. Thus giving access to credit, Dr's etc etc. No, I don't see the comparison....

[MtB]

I thinbk reality is beginning to dawn and the desirablity of on-line moorings over marina ghettos is beginning to dawn on boaters en masse.

 

Hence the inability of marinas to hike their prices while CRT moorings rocket.

 

I pay more for my online mooring than the marina a mile away because I think it's better value for money. The marina environment is horrid, frankly.

 

 

MtB