Another eviction

[madcat]

Poplar boater, my post about mental health issues was in connection with the boater in Burton not your neighbour Mr Taylor. I'm sorry confusion arose.

 

I'm also not convinced that a 75year old being cross can be considered aggressive , if your job is to enforce unpopular and unfair decisions taken by your employer then you have to expect cross customers. If you can't handle it then maybe different employment is the answer.

[Graham Davis]

 

All the paper work associated with mooring in a BWML marina can be found here -

 

http://www.bwml.co.uk/customer-info

Sections 7 and 37 of :

http://www.bwml.co.uk/uploads/pdf-docs/1-56-BWML_Terms_and_Conditions_28Version_2011-29_FINAL_01_03_2011.pdf

make interesting reading, but I bet most of the complainants here haven't bothered to read the full documentation linked to here!

Edited February 19, 2014 by Graham Davis

[madcat]

Nick I agree about foreign investors and empty property, successive governments have failed to deal with that one.

 

Moving businesses out of London would also be a very good thing, the rest of the country would benefit greatly .

[nicknorman]

I'm also not convinced that a 75year old being cross can be considered aggressive , if your job is to enforce unpopular and unfair decisions taken by your employer then you have to expect cross customers. If you can't handle it then maybe different employment is the answer.

It is a matter of the degree of aggressiveness. But an employer has a duty of care to their employees which includes protecting them from being upset by abusive customers, hence the proliferation of notices about unacceptable behaviour from customers that one sees.

[RLWP]

Poplar boater, my post about mental health issues was in connection with the boater in Burton not your neighbour Mr Taylor. I'm sorry confusion arose.

 

I'm also not convinced that a 75year old being cross can be considered aggressive , if your job is to enforce unpopular and unfair decisions taken by your employer then you have to expect cross customers. If you can't handle it then maybe different employment is the answer.

 

According to their Harrasment policy, BWML have been generous. They could have terminated the contract immediately

 

Richard

[PoplarBoater]

Poplar boater, my post about mental health issues was in connection with the boater in Burton not your neighbour Mr Taylor. I'm sorry confusion arose.

 

I'm also not convinced that a 75year old being cross can be considered aggressive , if your job is to enforce unpopular and unfair decisions taken by your employer then you have to expect cross customers. If you can't handle it then maybe different employment is the answer.

Hi Madcat, I'm sorry that I misread your post in the first place. I should have looked back to see how the thread developed, but was catching up on a lot of posts. Happy to shake hands, in a virtual sense, and put that behind us.

Thanks for your other comments - knowing Rod as I do, you're right that the emphasis should be on BWML's customer engagement skills. Rod is not an aggressive person at all, and he's been very upset by this comment by Derek Newton.

[RLWP]

You have mentioned Derek Newton again. I'm having difficulty separating out a legal discussion between BWML and it's clients (the moorers) and personal conflicts between Derek Newton and individual moorers

 

How much of this is commercial, how much is personal?

 

Richard

[madcat]

I suppose harassment is a personal thing , maybe the best way to protect staff is to let the boss take the flack for his policies.

 

People will get cross, people have always got cross and had some sharp words to say and anybody dealing with the great British public has to learn to cope with it.

 

Physical violence is not acceptable . A friend was spat at by a disgruntled customer, that is unacceptable and vile too.

[magnetman]

Maybe if we build a train set a bit like the TGV in France linking major uk cities we can address the London house price problem

 

Last time I was on TGV it got 180mph out in the sticks that's Really fast and 1st class is pretty comfy with electric seats

HS2 = lower mooring fees in Zone 2 London

[nicknorman]

I suppose harassment is a personal thing , maybe the best way to protect staff is to let the boss take the flack for his policies.

People will get cross, people have always got cross and had some sharp words to say and anybody dealing with the great British public has to learn to cope with it.

Physical violence is not acceptable . A friend was spat at by a disgruntled customer, that is unacceptable and vile too.

So too for example would be a guy "in your face" ie in your personal space, shouting and swearing at you in obvious control-lost rage, especially if you were female. There doesn't have to be physical contact involved. Not that I am saying thus is how Rod behaved - we don't know.

[PoplarBoater]

You have mentioned Derek Newton again. I'm having difficulty separating out a legal discussion between BWML and it's clients (the moorers) and personal conflicts between Derek Newton and individual moorers

 

How much of this is commercial, how much is personal?

 

Richard

I'd like to see Mr. Newton's answer to your question.

I mention him because he wrote the Termination Notice, and in any case the buck stops with him as MD of BWML.

My own answer is that I don't accept the binary choice - it's a matter of social justice. Nit-picking over legal niceties is avoiding the fact that Rod followed the prescribed complaints procedure, and is being evicted because of this.

[Naughty Cal]

I'd like to see Mr. Newton's answer to your question.

I mention him because he wrote the Termination Notice, and in any case the buck stops with him as MD of BWML.

My own answer is that I don't accept the binary choice - it's a matter of social justice. Nit-picking over legal niceties is avoiding the fact that Rod followed the prescribed complaints procedure, and is being evicted because of this.

No he isnt

[RLWP]

I should have Googled Derek Newton, then I would have known he is a BWML director

 

Richard

[Pen n Ink]

Rod followed the prescribed complaints procedure, and is being evicted because of this.

 

Rot.

 

He's being evicted because he seems to have demonstrated a continuing reluctance to accept the conclusions of the entire complaints process and the courts, and has thus shown himself to be someone who cannot be dealt with by reasonable means. Last resorts are therefore called for and justified.

[Mike Todd]

This was done to death under the last government when harmonisation between RM and Tenancies on land was proposed, however even that would not make it secure.

You just have to accept that moorings have no security of tenure, fight as much as you like it won't change.

Interestingly some moorings are sold with 25year terms these usually do have security of tenure.

people at Pillings Lock might not agree . . .

[magnetman]

A taste of boats for sale in Docklands showing the sort of premium attached to a boat with a good value mooring

http://houseboats.apolloduck.co.uk/dealer.phtml?bid=362

[dor]

I've read through this thread and some of the linked information. I've no great love for "big business", especially when they use bullying tactics against "the little man". However in this case, It seems to me that BWML and / or C&RT have gone out of their way to accommodate this man and yet somehow he thinks that the rules shouldn't apply to him.

 

We hear calls that C&RT should be more helpful towards people who are disadvantaged or in difficult situations, and in my experience they generally are when approached in a reasonable manner. However they are not part of our Social Services and have no requirement to act as an unpaid housing association. If there were to, the vast majority of C&RT customers will be the ones to lose out.

 

We can all feel some sympathy for someone falling on hard times or finding themselves in a difficult situation, but at the end of they day they either have to sort themselves out or get help from the appropriate authorities. Which is not C&RT.

[nicknorman]

?.. it's a matter of social justice. Nit-picking over legal niceties is avoiding the fact...

What is this social justice to which you refer? Can you show me where it is prescribed? Perhaps it all about his Human Rights? (There is a Human Right to a cheap mooring in London, you know.)

 

So what you are saying is, never mind the law, it's all SO UNFAIR (in a Kevin the teenager voice, complete with flounce). Perhaps you are an anarchist and don't believe in the law? Or more likely, someone who only wants to apply those bits of the law that suit them.

[Machpoint005]

>>We can all feel some sympathy for someone falling on hard times or finding themselves in a difficult situation, but at the end of they day they either have to sort themselves out or get help from the appropriate authorities. Which is not C&RT.<<

Spot on, Dor.

[GUMPY]

people at Pillings Lock might not agree . . .

I did say usually and PL is not the only marina to offer long leases.

[jelunga]

Pure speculation in this case, but, could this be the background ?

 

A lot of BWML moorers have been paying for grade 1 moorings (high usage) but have been using them for 'full residential'. A letter was sent out from BWML some time ago (last summer ?) regarding that any users of Grade 1 moorings that were found to be using them as residential must move up a grade to residential and, pay the correct tarrif for a residential mooring (considerably higher than a Grade 1 mooring).

 

Could this explain the 'vast increase' in mooring fees ?

This was because manageds of BWML marinas were telling people that with a grade 1 leisure moorjng you could stay on your boat 365/365 days a year provided uou moved it off the mooring now and then for short cruises, pumpouts and refueling.

But now the market has picked up, and they have more residential moorings cost up to £1000pa for a very simikar service, they want to max their income and convert peeps ti resi now it SUITS BWML TO GET MORE MONEY!

[MtB]

I did say usually and PL is not the only marina to offer long leases.

 

Pillings didn't sell moorings with long leases, they sold car parking spaces with the benefit of free mooring. Not quite the same!

 

Which other marinas have sold long term mooring leases then? Pillings say it couldn't be done, which is why they sold car park spaces with a right to moor in the lake.

[Mike Todd]

I did say usually and PL is not the only marina to offer long leases.

My comment was more to do with whether the full length of the lease will remain usable . . .

This was because manageds of BWML marinas were telling people that with a grade 1 leisure moorjng you could stay on your boat 365/365 days a year provided uou moved it off the mooring now and then for short cruises, pumpouts and refueling.

But now the market has picked up, and they have more residential moorings cost up to £1000pa for a very simikar service, they want to max their income and convert peeps ti resi now it SUITS BWML TO GET MORE MONEY!

Also important to note that the long standing ambiguity about residential moorings at a number of marinas, BWML included, was evetually resolved - or more perhaps that a truce was agreed - which has chnagedf the commercial context for this. Until then it was not always clear that BWML could classify some of the moorings as residential even though their 'leisure' users stayed put 365/365. As I understand it, BWML led the way in resolving the matter to the long term benefit of the moorers affected.

[GUMPY]

 

Pillings didn't sell moorings with long leases, they sold car parking spaces with the benefit of free mooring. Not quite the same!

 

Which other marinas have sold long term mooring leases then? Pillings say it couldn't be done, which is why they sold car park spaces with a right to moor in the lake.

Pyrford marina on the River Wey that has/had long leases not sure how it pans out now as its part of Tingdene.

[jenlyn]

I suspect we are talking about Waterways Ombudsman's case number 563

 

Just had a message that this is a different case Alan.