i dont want to lose my life savings

[Ally Charlton]

evening all

 

I know no question on this forum hasn't been asked before in some form or another.

 

forgive me :-)

 

I have been looking for a narrowboat to liveaboard (preferably with a chuffing engine in its very own room, one can but dream)

 

I've got my head around running/maintenance costs of living aboard, no problems here.

 

We set a ceiling for purchase of £40k.

 

We've looked at quite a few but found nothing that was right for us.

 

Now, in my folly, I've started to look at £60k boats. It's not that we couldn't afford to buy a £60k boat provided when we sell it its worth £60k. I know that boats depreciate in a way houses don't so we set the £40k figure and said "no more"

 

I've searched the forums (for an answer to my upcoming question) and a couple of comments caught my eye:

 

"A new boat has lost half its value after ten years, and another quarter after another ten. After that it's all down to how well it has been maintained, and how desirable it is"

 

"Age-related depreciation in boats doesn't decline in the same way as it does with cars; it tends to decline more gradually and hit a floor where it will level out, because a good condition well cared for boat of any age will still hold value. After that it's all down to how well it has been maintained, and how desirable it is."

 

Here is my question (don't throw peanuts/beer cans at your laptop screen, screaming "not this question again!!!")

 

So let's assuming we bought a solid boat and maintained it, What kind of age does a boat need to be before buying it alone doesn't cost you a fortune? Or is it just not this simple?

 

I've learnt loads from reading/posting questions on this forum. But I also realise that most of narrowboat living seems to be "suck it and see", that's fine for everything else. but please someone help me to not lose money I've been working for (and specifically saving for a narrowboat) my entire working life..........

 

 

 

 

[Ray T]

Thread on resale values here:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61366&hl=

 

It mainly refers to a wide beam but a lot is applicable to a narrow boat as well.

[Thorfast]

Before we bought our boat someone once described owning a boat as akin to standing in cold water tearing up £20 notes.

 

So we went ahead and we bought a boat over 2 years ago - £40,000

Over the past 2 years we spent some money getting it how we wanted it - £4000

Costs of mooring, licence, insurance, maintenance - £4000 a year

 

So here we are over two years later with a boat. We enjoy it and do not regret our decision to own our own narrowboat.

What is it worth today....probably less than the £40,000 we spent buying it.

That means £12,000 of our savings have been spent......so yes it is like standing in water tearing up £20 notes.

 

However, I think the investment has been worth it........but, YES, YOU WILL LOOSE MONEY

[sueb]

We lived on our boat for 20+ years, we lost £6000.on the purchase price. A bargain

[Phil Ambrose]

We are not minted in any way, tiny pension plus state pension but have never given a thought to how much we lost when we sold our last boat and bought our present boat, just happy to live the life we have.

 

Phil

[MtB]

We set a ceiling for purchase of £40k.

 

We've looked at quite a few but found nothing that was right for us.

 

Now, in my folly, I've started to look at £60k boats.

 

We?? I'm gutted!

 

Ah well never mind. Plenty of fish, and all that....

 

Had you been looking at £60k boats you'd be dreaming of spending £80k. Bad thinking. £40k is plenty enough to buy you an excellent boat in today's market WITH a chuffy engine. Don't buy one without, you'll regret it. Mark my words....

 

Wow this shiraz is good tonight....

 

 

MtB

[mark99]

I suppose on a longer term view........ if you kept the boat for a real long time it could "store" it's value. I other words, inflation will run rife sooner or later (payback for QE and the gov's only realistic tactic to pay off vast national debt is to inflate the debt away).

 

Commodities like boats will maintain pace with inflation where-as cash saved will reduce in value (as it does now daily).

[Richard10002]

In 2011 I was looking for a 45ft boat for around £25k. I bought a 2001 boat for £18,000.

 

During the search I saw boats priced around £25k from around 1985 to 2001, or so. Several of them, older or newer, sold before I considered actually buying any of them.

 

So I would suggest that age related depreciation goes on for about 10 years, or so. After that it's all down to condition.

 

From what you say are your concerns, I'd be looking for a 10-15 year old boat in well maintained condition. If you look after it, you'll likely get most of your purchase price back, (you won't get your "looking after it money" back ).

 

The thing that crosses my mind is how serious are you about narrowboat living if you are worried about the sale price of the boat that you haven't bought yet.

 

Good Luck,

 

Richard.

[Ally Charlton]

ah mike

 

the stella's not bad either.

 

I really do want a chuffy engine. What's a narrowboat without one eh? but as I've said before I'm a sensible girl and as much as I believe that chuffiness is the whole point can I maintain I 50 year old engine? No I can't. I will aspire to this, unless my heart rules my head, which it doesn't usually but probably will in this case

 

However I am non the wiser in response to my original post?

 

Is there an age I should look for? as in "buy a boat this old and there's less chance of you loosing a fortune?"

 

Give me a clue you experienced people

[Richard10002]

ah mike

 

the stella's not bad either.

 

I really do want a chuffy engine. What's a narrowboat without one eh? but as I've said before I'm a sensible girl and as much as I believe that chuffiness is the whole point can I maintain I 50 year old engine? No I can't. I will aspire to this, unless my heart rules my head, which it doesn't usually but probably will in this case

 

However I am non the wiser in response to my original post?

 

Is there an age I should look for? as in "buy a boat this old and there's less chance of you loosing a fortune?"

 

Give me a clue you experienced people

Read this, but think boat instead of car:

 

http://www.911virgin.com/porsche/buyingtips/

 

He talks a lot of sense for a salesman.

 

If you look at all the ads for the type/size of boat you are looking for, you will see prices stabilising at a particular age and older.... There will be some exceptions but, on the whole, you should be able to tell. I got a feeling, but you might need a spreadsheet.

[Ally Charlton]

Richard 10002

 

Thank you for your comments they are very useful.

 

it seems to me that living costs vary wildly, depending upon where you are and what you get up to. I am not worried about this. my question was, as a first time boat buyer simply this, boats depreciate. the consensus seems to be that they plateau at a particular age, what is that? and if it's not universal, can someone explain what influences it? I can afford to live on and maintain a boat. I just don't want to loose a fortune when I buy one.

 

I am serious about living aboard but do you really feel that to ask this question implies I am not serious? personally I think trying to ascertain depreciation values would imply that I'm trying to learn (preferably not the hard and expensive way) rather than I'm not serious.

 

good heavens I'm bellicose tonight!!!!

thanks for the second post Richard 100002 :-)

[matty40s]

I had a budget of £45k, looked at many, many boats, and then looked at a £60k boat.

 

I got the guys at the marina where the boat was moored (not at the brokerage)to start the chuffy engine, ..... and put an offer of £57k in....

 

[Kiwidad]

I had a budget of £45k, looked at many, many boats, and then looked at a £60k boat. I got the guys at the marina where the boat was moored (not at the brokerage)to start the chuffy engine, ..... and put an offer of £57k in....

Was the oil in the bilges included free of charge? :-)

[dmr]

i don't think there is an easy answer to your question in terms of best age to minimise depreciation.

Many many other factors will have a more significant influence on resale price.

Depending on the state of the economy when you come to sell the boat you might have to accept a much bigger loss. Boats are luxury items and don't sell well during a recession.

An older boat will depreciate less but if you hit any big maintenance issues during your ownership (which might be more likely with an older boat) these will hit your overall cost of ownership. And that chuffy engine might be costly when it goes wrong.

The chuffy engine will also limit the number of buyers when you come to sell, the vast majority of prospective purchasers will be looking for a nice modern floating caravan style boat with a modern quiet engine and certainly won't want an engine room....but then again the minority who want a real a boat with a real engine may well be more likely to pay a higher price.

and finally, if you are the sort of person who wants to live on a boat with a chuffy engine then the chances are the resale value will be a problem for your children or other beneficiaries rather than yourself!

 

..........Dave

[Tam & Di]

it seems to me that living costs vary wildly, depending upon where you are and what you get up to. I am not worried about this. my question was, as a first time boat buyer simply this, boats depreciate. the consensus seems to be that they plateau at a particular age, what is that? and if it's not universal, can someone explain what influences it? I can afford to live on and maintain a boat. I just don't want to loose a fortune when I buy one.

 

It depends also very largely on luck. If you bought a boat a few years ago when prices were high and looked after it very well, you would still almost certainly lose a lot of money if you wanted to sell it today. Buy one today when prices are low, bring it up to a high standard and maintain it to keep it there and you might get lucky and when you want to sell if prices have risen again. Unless you are talking of buying a brand new boat (which will almost certainly lose value almost immediately) I don't think depreciation should be a major factor in your considerations, any more than it would be if you bought a house.

[MtB]

Anyone worrying about resale values before they've even found the right boat for them, would be better off living in a house...

 

MtB

[bottle]

Ally

 

I honestly do not think there is definite answer to your question.

 

There are so many factors involved, shell builder, fit out, the 'chuffing' engine model, the age, how well maintained and when you want to sell the state of the market, the price you will ask and if anyone wants to buy it.

 

I am probably have a unique thought on this, I had my boat built and I decide then and there that all that money had gone and would not be returned.

 

So if I do have to sell whatever I get will be a bonus.

 

ps, have no plans to sell until I have been to the crematorium and then it will be my inheritors that will sell.it.

[Bee]

If you have skills you can add value to a tired boat with a refit but what you really want is the `worst house on the best street` i.e. a boat by a good builder that has got a bit tired, kind of hard to find but that way you will learn a lot and increase the value. good luck.

[Tuscan]

As per bottle and he's not unique, we spent money getting the boat right to our spec in the full knowledge we would never recover our investment. We would be lucky to recover 50% of what we spent but WTF it was never an investment but a lifestyle choice. If you want an investment put your £40k down on a flat.

[Charlotte Burnett]

Ally - check your PMs. As for maintaining ancient, leaky lumps of iron that run on obsolete parts.....if you want one, you will learn damn quickly the skills to maintain it. Believe in karma and the power of a set of Whitworth spanners. I've never broken down and remained that way for too long....someone, generally, I admit, of a certain age, with a beard of a certain length.....has wandered past the swearing emanating from the engine room doors and offered their expertise in return for tea. As for obsolete parts, these can usually be made on a lathe by again, generally someone of a certain age with a certain beard for less money than you think, because they enjoy a challenge. The exception is head gaskets, these are apparently made by a man in Thailand. Head gaskets are over rated anyway, you need a good dab of hylomar!

 

<This message is brought to you in no order at all thanks to Diane @ Wharf House (it's your fault and I love you for it) Jono at UCC (thanks for lending me the spanners, answering the phone and talking me though it when I'm in a mess and generally being amazing) David and Jenny on Vectis, (thanks for the coffee, sandwiches, beer, endless advice and good humour) Tim Wood, who only laughed a little bit when he watched me use nail polish like engineers blue and patiently explained that when setting tappet clearances, I need to decompress the engine, Tim the man with the random tap that fit, the guy in Stoke Bruene who told me what a Bowman tube was and then found plastic bags in it.>

 

I often forget how much I like Bombay Sapphire...

 

As to age, pre 2000 and perhaps 2003, you are paying for condition and quality. Post that, sellers will be saying "but it's pretty new..." I'd rather have good steel than new steel but what do I know?

[Richard10002]

3 years ago, we paid £25k more, ( over 10% ), for our house than any house had ever sold for on our road. It was/is better than the previous high on the street, but £25k ???

 

I was umming and ahhing about it for weeks when a friend of mine asked how long we were likely to live there, and was it what we really wanted, compared to anything else for sale at the time.

 

If we keep it for say, 10 years, and say, £15k of the price is a premium over its actual value, then it will have cost us an extra £15k to have lived there. That's about £4 per day to be where we want to be - that put it in perspective for me, so we bought it, and we love it!

 

Do the same sum on a boat, using the amount you might lose, and the time you might keep it, and see how it feels.

 

I will repeat that at around 10 years old and older, it's more about condition and specification, than age.

[Phil Ambrose]

Ally

 

I honestly do not think there is definite answer to your question.

 

There are so many factors involved, shell builder, fit out, the 'chuffing' engine model, the age, how well maintained and when you want to sell the state of the market, the price you will ask and if anyone wants to buy it.

 

I am probably have a unique thought on this, I had my boat built and I decide then and there that all that money had gone and would not be returned.

 

So if I do have to sell whatever I get will be a bonus.

 

ps, have no plans to sell until I have been to the crematorium and then it will be my inheritors that will sell.it.

Yeah I'm with you on this.

 

Phil

[DeanS]

I spent £36000 on a brand new widebeam sailaway and £4000 fitting it out. I wonder how much it will sell for in 5yrs time....About the same I would imagine?

[Neil2]

Sheeeeesh... if I had £40,000 I would have the boat of my dreams by now.

 

As MTB said, this is more than enough to buy a decent boat. What you lack is experience.

 

Buy something cheap and sail around on it for a while. You will then find out that you don't need to spend £60,000 to get what you want.

 

And forget all that chuffy engine nonsense. Silence is golden.

 

I prefer uisge beatha myself.

[mrsmelly]

We are not minted in any way, tiny pension plus state pension but have never given a thought to how much we lost when we sold our last boat and bought our present boat, just happy to live the life we have.

 

Phil

 

And there lies the problem Phil. I like you live aboard as a first class for us lifestyle choice. We have never considered cost it simply doesnt come into it though in our case in our 24 years boat ownership to date we are many thousands UP on purchase and resale of ours.

Living on the boat costs us considerably more than living in our last house but for us its a no brainer, the boat every time.

 

Tim