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Dangerous new stainless steel water points

Ian Mac

By Ian Mac
in General Boating

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bottle Veteran II

bottle

Posted
Posted

I have only seen one in the flesh and did not give it a close inspection but it was fitted close to a wall and the openiing of the top (fully) would not be possible.

 

How long before the lock fixing on the upright is levered off or just bent out of the way.

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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Although I really don't want to find fault with these new things, there is a long term spin off which needs to be considered. The manufacturer of these says the following:

 

NOTE: Although this unit has been designed to accommodate fluctuations in severe weather conditions, it is recommended that in extreme cold weather the unit should be drained to avoid frost damage.

 

In France, they switch off the water supply to outside taps in parks etc, for months of the year. They even remove the tap heads. If these new water points cant insulate properly, and pipes start bursting, I'm hoping that instead of taking a decision to "drain"these points over winter "(leaving many boaters without services) that CRT will instead insulate them better. The truth is they probably are already well insulated, hopefully. Has anyone looked inside one of those bases...:)

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Guest

Guest

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So one of the design faults is corrected by welding on anther bit of metal? Who designed this thing, Heath Robinson?

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

No idea you'd have to ask the manufacturer.

 

I'm just clarifying why I think it is there.

Although I really don't want to find fault with these new things, there is a long term spin off which needs to be considered. The manufacturer of these says the following:

 

NOTE: Although this unit has been designed to accommodate fluctuations in severe weather conditions, it is recommended that in extreme cold weather the unit should be drained to avoid frost damage.

 

In France, they switch off the water supply to outside taps in parks etc, for months of the year. They even remove the tap heads. If these new water points cant insulate properly, and pipes start bursting, I'm hoping that instead of taking a decision to "drain"these points over winter "(leaving many boaters without services) that CRT will instead insulate them better. The truth is they probably are already well insulated, hopefully. Has anyone looked inside one of those bases...smile.png

 

The manufacturer claims they are OK down to -5 degrees C.

 

How low can the existing taps resist freezing? I ask because I honestly don't know.

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Higgs Influencer

Higgs

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Posted

 

Possibly - but as I asked are they any worse or better than the ones they replace, I have no idea.

 

In one respect, they've certainly not wasted much thought on reinforcing a sense of heritage, but have gone for pure, boring utility.

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Guest

Posted
Posted

 

In one respect, they've certainly not wasted much thought on reinforcing a sense of heritage, but have gone for pure, boring utility.

 

I meant in respect of the ability to resist the tendency for the water to freeze.

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furnessvale Influencer

furnessvale

Posted
Posted

 

In one respect, they've certainly not wasted much thought on reinforcing a sense of heritage, but have gone for pure, boring utility.

I agree with you there. At least the old ones have a sort of Victorian style about them and can blend in with an old stone warehouse, for example.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

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Guest

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I agree with you there. At least the old ones have a sort of Victorian style about them and can blend in with an old stone warehouse, for example.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

You need to read Tim's link about the ones they are replacing and the ones they are not and why not.

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Mac of Cygnet Veteran II

Mac of CygnetDonate to Canal World

Posted
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Just to get some accuracy into this (if CRT are to be believed!

 

 


We’ve tried to retain as many cast iron heritage water points as possible. The majority of those non-compliant (about 790 out of the 1,000) have been saved and upgraded to modern standards. Where refurbishment of heritage cast iron water points has not been possible, as was the case for 25 of them, they have been replaced with modern cast iron versions.

In a small number (about 180) of places, mainly where basic standpipes have been replaced and where there are no heritage implications, a much cheaper standard stainless steel water point unit has been installed.

 

So apparently very few 'heritage' cast iron water points have been actually replaced with the new stainless steel type, it being mostly basic standpipes that have had the makeover. Surely anything would be better insulated than a basic standpipe?

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Higgs Influencer

Higgs

Posted
Posted

Just to get some accuracy into this (if CRT are to be believed!

 

 

 

So apparently very few 'heritage' cast iron water points have been actually replaced with the new stainless steel type, it being mostly basic standpipes that have had the makeover. Surely anything would be better insulated than a basic standpipe?

 

Ok, no point in being too hard on them, then.

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Iain_S Influencer

Iain_S

Posted
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(snip)

The manufacturer claims they are OK down to -5 degrees C.

 

How low can the existing taps resist freezing? I ask because I honestly don't know.

 

I don't know how the manufacturer can claim that!

 

If the temperature is below freezing for long enough, then, no matter how good the insulation, eventually the water in the pipe will freeze. (although the water in the actual tap will freeze first) Better insulation gives more time before this happens.

 

The "freezing clock" can be wound back a bit by running water from the tap, so that the (almost) freezing water in the standpipe is replaced by slightly warmer water from below the ground, where the temperature stays a few degrees above zero. (In the UK, anyway tongue.png )

 

Iain

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

 

I don't know how the manufacturer can claim that!

 

If the temperature is below freezing for long enough, then, no matter how good the insulation, eventually the water in the pipe will freeze. (although the water in the actual tap will freeze first) Better insulation gives more time before this happens.

 

The "freezing clock" can be wound back a bit by running water from the tap, so that the (almost) freezing water in the standpipe is replaced by slightly warmer water from below the ground, where the temperature stays a few degrees above zero. (In the UK, anyway tongue.png )

 

Iain

 

 

Possibly - But a better chance of not freezing in a shorter cold snap , or it taking longer to freeze than the existing taps they replace perhaps? - nobody seems to be able to refute that.

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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

Posted
Posted

 

 

Possibly - But a better chance of not freezing in a shorter cold snap , or it taking longer to freeze than the existing taps they replace perhaps? - nobody seems to be able to refute that.

 

I don't believe anyone has tried, it's just that the 'OK to -5C' is pretty meaningless, without more information.

 

Tim

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ditchcrawler Veteran II

ditchcrawlerDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

I have only seen one in the flesh and did not give it a close inspection but it was fitted close to a wall and the openiing of the top (fully) would not be possible.

 

How long before the lock fixing on the upright is levered off or just bent out of the way.

I have not found one that is locked yet and only seen one with the lock still there. If you want a good quality brass lock its quite tempting.

Although I really don't want to find fault with these new things, there is a long term spin off which needs to be considered. The manufacturer of these says the following:

 

NOTE: Although this unit has been designed to accommodate fluctuations in severe weather conditions, it is recommended that in extreme cold weather the unit should be drained to avoid frost damage.

 

In France, they switch off the water supply to outside taps in parks etc, for months of the year. They even remove the tap heads. If these new water points cant insulate properly, and pipes start bursting, I'm hoping that instead of taking a decision to "drain"these points over winter "(leaving many boaters without services) that CRT will instead insulate them better. The truth is they probably are already well insulated, hopefully. Has anyone looked inside one of those bases...smile.png

Sounds like Braunston Marina, they switch most of theirs off for the winter months. The actual tap has no frost protection at all, if they had fitted lagging in the lift up lid it may help.

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carlt Veteran II

carlt

Posted
Posted

I think we're all (me included) making a mountain out of a molehill smile.png

Am I alone when I say....

 

I have no issues with them beyond the discussion.

 

I really don't care that much.

...then?

 

Apart from one incident involving nasty spiteful comments that made my OH cry I don't think I have ever lost sleep over anything said on this forum and, usually, not even thought about it once logging off.

 

I don't think "we are all" doing anything because, like me, I suspect that most forum contributors don't really care enough to make even a small hillock out of a molehill.

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