Narrow Boat Hit By Trip Boat On Tidal Thames

[nb Innisfree]

Why would you put out a mayday call before?

We always start our cruising with a mayday, just in case...

[RichardN]

If they managed to call out a mayday one has to wonder why they did not hear the passenger vessel.

I was in the boat perhaps 80m in front so know that your comments are not fair. I doubt if they would have heard the Trip Boat but they saw them.

 

As an aside: The most reassuring thing was how well the commercial traffic reacted, bu%%er their schedules, a boat was in trouble and they were there. All fantastically fast.

 

When the Clipper and Tug turned up they offered a rope. Yes it is true, you do get offered a rope bigger then your Tee Stud so have a rope ready in case there is not a small loop at the end of their rope!

[bizzard]

Mayday? Its nearly August.

[fudd]

No headgear, ear defenders and box.

You 'crease' me up.

[magnetman]

Mayday? Its nearly August.

I find it odd that when someone on a boat is in real trouble they start talking French. I thought English was a more important and standard language but it seems not

[ditchcrawler]

If they managed to call out a mayday one has to wonder why they did not hear the passenger vessel.

Maybe the passenger boat didn't call them. The skipper of the one I went on was quite relaxed sitting in his chair steering with his feet

[bizzard]

I find it odd that when someone on a boat is in real trouble they start talking French. I thought English was a more important and standard language but it seems not

Derived from French words. Its very confusing when you make a Mayday call, they keep calling you Roger, you have to keep telling them that your name is not Roger, but they insist that it is. Ok if your name happens to be Roger of course though. They also keep asking if you can read too, rather odd I think when your in distress and need saving.

[Old Son]

Where did I say that?

 

However passenger boats will run on a fairly standard course. Straying over that course in a much smaller boat is silly at best, suicidle at worst.

 

Larger vessels will more often then not radio ahead what their intentions are. On bigger rivers the bigger vessels will want the deeper water which isn't necessarily on the "right" side of the river. In this case they will radio ahead and tell you what side they are going to pass on or telling you to get out of the bloody way.

 

Incidents like these will make the authorities question allowing leisure craft on their waterways. These rivers are there to earn their keep, we just visit for leisure.

 

Get out of the way?

 

Your post #20 said " How did they end up so close to such a large vessel? Surely common sense would say keep well out of the way" The large vessel did the hitting so the narrow boat was the culprit because is should have kept out of the way. Don't you read what you write?

[carlt]

I find it odd that when someone on a boat is in real trouble they start talking French. I thought English was a more important and standard language but it seems not

Likewise "pan-pan" from the French for "broken".

[Naughty Cal]

 

Your post #20 said " How did they end up so close to such a large vessel? Surely common sense would say keep well out of the way" The large vessel did the hitting so the narrow boat was the culprit because is should have kept out of the way. Don't you read what you write?

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

[Timleech]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

 

I don't think you have been on the Thames tideway?

 

It can get quite 'interesting' at busy times, with the numerous bridges and variable one-way navigation through different arches.

 

Tim

[magnetman]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

there are several bridges close together in central London. if you add a few large boats maneouvering and an emptying river with a 3kt tide there's not that much room for error

in a 50ft steel narrow boat with a brick shaped hull with say 45hp engine max achievable speed say 6kt.

different story with a 25ft planing grp cruiser with 150hp or whatever max speed 25kt etc...

[Hawkmoth]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

NC I think you're being a bit unfair there. They weren't in the car park, they were on the road. If a big lorry comes up behind you on the road you don't panic and pull over.

Bob

edit for spelling

Edited July 25, 2013 by lyraboat

[matty40s]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

quite obviously a plastic boat would never hit a bright red bollard in the middle of a large car park either........

[bizzard]

quite obviously a plastic boat would never hit a bright red bollard in the middle of a large car park either........

No they prefer to hit lightships.

[alan_fincher]

How did they end up so close to such a large vessel?

 

Surely common sense would say keep well out of the way.

Far more likely that a large vessel has come so close to them.

 

A typical narrow boat, if it is lucky, can maybe make 5 or 6 mph maximum in addition to anything the tide is doing, and common sense has you largely plugging along on a fairly straight course over to one side.

 

Although the trip boats are meant to limit their speed, many are easily capable og maybe 4 or 5 times the speed of the narrow boats, so if one decides to catch you up rapidly from behind, but then not steer adequately around you, there certainly is little avoiding action you could safely take.

 

Where did I say that?

 

However passenger boats will run on a fairly standard course. Straying over that course in a much smaller boat is silly at best, suicidle at worst.

 

Larger vessels will more often then not radio ahead what their intentions are. On bigger rivers the bigger vessels will want the deeper water which isn't necessarily on the "right" side of the river. In this case they will radio ahead and tell you what side they are going to pass on or telling you to get out of the bloody way.

 

Incidents like these will make the authorities question allowing leisure craft on their waterways. These rivers are there to earn their keep, we just visit for leisure.

 

Get out of the way?

 

So given you can easily be surrounded by 4 trip boats at least, (we encountered one overtaking another in one direction,, at exactly the point two were doing the same thing in the other direction), what are you advising?

 

On the one hand you say "don't weave about", (my paraphrase), but on the other you say "get out of the way"!, which presumably means you should second guess what they are all going to do, and somehow hope they all do, and are not thrown by you changing course.

 

I actually feel most of the time you are better of trying to stay as "out of the way" as possible, and hoping their sweeping manoeuvres as they shuttle from jettys on one side of the river across to those on the other do not involve you!

 

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

If a large lorry decides to suddenly come up on your back bumper when you are driving up a motorway in the slowest lane, do you swerve into another one, assuming that is your best chance of survival?

 

I know you think you are the fount of all knowledge on these matters, but your comments tell me you know very little about the river traffic on the Thames, and even less of the capabilities of a narrow boat to somehow stay clear of all comers, even if one apparently fails to see you.

 

I think if one of those big river cruisers gets it wrong, and closes in on you without seeing you in time, options for avoiding action are not that plentiful, and you do actually risk doing something that makes it worse.

 

Not the best example, but here I have been caught up very rapidly as I go through a nominated arch, and the "Clipper" has decided to use the same arch, and close in on me very fast indeed. Obviously you can see he is going around me, but I would argue that in a case where he hadn't recognised my presence, and just forged straight ahead, I would have struggled to know what action to have taken. What if he did then see me at the very last minute, but I have made a decision to turn the way he then decides to? The result could be far worse than me deciding to hold my course.

 

 

I don't think you have been on the Thames tideway?

 

I doubt Rachel has handled many narrow boats either, but hey?!?...................

Edited July 25, 2013 by alan_fincher

[magnetman]

if the clipper accelerated just at that moment and turned to starboard a bit and you ducked he might have gone right over you just taking out your aerial on the way over :rolleyes"

[lockedout]

COLAS Regs - Rule 13

 

Put simply, it is the responsibility of the overtaking boat to keep clear.

 

Best advice as the slower boat being overtaken is to stand on - do not make any course change. Although, the regs state that even if you do change course during an overtake this cannot alter the responsibilities and will never make the overtaking boat a 'crossing' vessel.

 

That's it on paper - always different when actually on the water though.

[RichardN]

But that looks a decent aerial, I have been wondering whether to get a long aerial but have not seen any decent mag mounts, is that a mag mount you have got on a 6'? aerial?

[Tacet]

Far more likely that a large vessel has come so close to them.

 

A typical narrow boat, if it is lucky, can maybe make 5 or 6 mph maximum in addition to anything the tide is doing, and common sense has you largely plugging along on a fairly straight course over to one side.

 

Although the trip boats are meant to limit their speed, many are easily capable og maybe 4 or 5 times the speed of the narrow boats, so if one decides to catch you up rapidly from behind, but then not steer adequately around you, there certainly is little avoiding action you could safely take.

 

I actually feel most of the time you are better of trying to stay as "out of the way" as possible, and hoping their sweeping manoeuvres as they shuttle from jettys on one side of the river across to those on the other do not involve you!

 

If a large lorry decides to suddenly come up on your back bumper when you are driving up a motorway in the slowest lane, do you swerve into another one, assuming that is your best chance of survival?

 

I know you think you are the fount of all knowledge on these matters, but your comments tell me you know very little about the river traffic on the Thames, and even less of the capabilities of a narrow boat to somehow stay clear of all comers, even if one apparently fails to see you.

 

I think if one of those big river cruisers gets it wrong, and closes in on you without seeing you in time, options for avoiding action are not that plentiful, and you do actually risk doing something that makes it worse.

 

 

I agree - other than the speed capabilities of the trip (not clippers) boats.

 

Keep clear of the piers where boats cut in and out, where possible slow (or, less probably, speed up) to avoid a faster boat catching you at a point where passing is awkward - such as a bridge (especially if you are choosing a particular span for photo/fun rather navigational purposes) and generally steer a steady and sensible course.

 

If a much faster boat fails to see you, and is about to run you clean up the stern, I am not sure you can do much more to avoid it.

[blackrose]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

 

You're quite wrong there - have you actually navigated through the pool of London?

 

It can get very busy and because of the numerous bridges, one after the other, with limited width spans and arches it effectively reduces the navigable width. Plus the fact that you're generally travelling with the tide which means you may have limited options if a fast passenger boat pulls off from a jetty and comes up on you from behind very quickly.

Edited July 26, 2013 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

But that looks a decent aerial, I have been wondering whether to get a long aerial but have not seen any decent mag mounts, is that a mag mount you have got on a 6'? aerial?

 

 

It is a "5/8 wave" 2 metre Amateur Band antenna with some of its length trimmed off to tune it for the slightly higher, (but similar), frequencies used on Marine VHF.

 

It is on a bog standard magnetic base.

 

It works very well, and dramatically increases the working range of our Icom hand-held.

[matty40s]

It is a scary stretch on a little narrowboat at 4mph (and by that I man a 70 footer)for the first time, even at 6am before the majority of the boats start moving.

I have no doubt the boat hit had done it before, this doesn't make it any less scary.

Phylis doesnt have a clue about doing the trip from a NB point of view, no doubt she would have stuck it on the plane and evaded said trip boat.

Edited July 25, 2013 by matty40s

[fudd]

If you see a large lorry manoeuvring in a car park do you drive near to it because you can or stay well out of its way?

 

Common sense says that you don't get in a situation where a vessel much larger than your own is able to strike you. It isn't as if there is a shortage of navigable width on the Thames!

Have you been on the tidal Thames lately? The big boats are all over the place. I don't think you know half of what you are talking about because if you did you wouldn't make such I'll informed comments. I was there three weeks ago. What about you?

[oarfish]

+1 on getting an external antenna, the handheld picked up very little except for battersea bridge control.

Edited July 25, 2013 by oarfish