Narrow Boat Hit By Trip Boat On Tidal Thames

[Guest]

Can you keep 360 degree vision on your boat 100% of the time?

I know for sure we can't.

Even with two of us we don't have eyes in the back of our heads or up our arses!

Precisely...

 

We have the additional benefit of a dog on board but he only barks if the approaching boat has another dog on it.

[Naughty Cal]

Please do so. i welcome anyone from the forum, all that i ask is that you pm me first as to when I am working and you would like to come along and I will endeavour to get you onboard and ill buy you a beer. Also come into the wheelhouse and get it from our perspective, it can only help to enhance anyones view and experience in their boating.

 

Tim

Had we not been so bloody wet last time when you " snook" up on us we would have accepted your offer!

[mrsmelly]

Had we not been so bloody wet last time when you " snook" up on us we would have accepted your offer!

yes if I recall was a tad damp wasnt it. Hope to see you next time.

 

Cheers

 

Tim

[larryjc]

Sorry I was responding to a post that seemed to say that the skipper accepted that he couldn't see adequately. Of course boats have blind spots its what you do about them that's important and from Tim's subsequent post it seems he has more than adequate palliatives. However as someone who was almost run down in a dive RIB by a Type 45 destroyer in Plymouth sound last year (and being ex RN myself) I have a certain issue with people keeping and adequate lookout!!

[Naughty Cal]

yes if I recall was a tad damp wasnt it. Hope to see you next time.

 

Cheers

 

Tim

Will aim to do so. Will let you know next time we are up that way. Later this year methinks!

[mrsmelly]

Sorry I was responding to a post that seemed to say that the skipper accepted that he couldn't see adequately. Of course boats have blind spots its what you do about them that's important and from Tim's subsequent post it seems he has more than adequate palliatives. However as someone who was almost run down in a dive RIB by a Type 45 destroyer in Plymouth sound last year (and being ex RN myself) I have a certain issue with people keeping and adequate lookout!!

Hi Larry

 

I did a spell in the Andrew myself in the 70s twas very enjoyable indeed.

 

Tim

[howardang]

Many many boats and ships ( In maritime law we are classed as a ship ) have blind spots all around them. I would never turn the boat without a crew member checking either side for me before doing so. The problem here often is that pleasure boaters have no more idea than the man in the moon about our job. Keeping an " Adequate lookout " means just that, it has no bearing on the view of one man from one steering position. Next time you are parked in your car in a car park get a friend to stand about four feet out from the car on the offside just behind the front door pillar then look in your rearview mirror and your righthand mirror and you will not see them. This is known as the " Blind spot " many road accidents on dual carriageways and motorways are caused by idiots who check their main mirror and even their right hand mirror then pull out straight into a thing as big as a car that they have not even seen in their blind spot and that is in a car with nearly 360 deg visibility.

Try standing on the bridge of an oil tanker and see what view the Skipper gets.

 

Tim

Yes, I fully grasp the concept of blind spots and I also understand the requirements of what an adequate lookout means. You might like to read what you posted, especially the second and third lines where you said you could not see anything around you, only to the front. In my book, that sounds like it is difficult to maintain an adequate lookout.

 

I do agree with you that many people on this forum underestimate the limitations of manoeuvrability of larger vessels, especially in close quarters situation and often fail to appreciate their limitations.

 

I appreciate your advice about standing on a tankers bridge (why a tanker) but I'll pass on that for the time being thanks. I think i know what the view from a bridge looks like.

 

Howard

[Naughty Cal]

That is why you have crew as look outs.

 

There are very few , if any vessels that have a full 360 degree clear view from the helm.

[carlt]

I think i know what the view from a bridge looks like.

 

[mrsmelly]

Yes, I fully grasp the concept of blind spots and I also understand the requirements of what an adequate lookout means. You might like to read what you posted, especially the second and third lines where you said you could not see anything around you, only to the front. In my book, that sounds like it is difficult to maintain an adequate lookout.

 

I do agree with you that many people on this forum underestimate the limitations of manoeuvrability of larger vessels, especially in close quarters situation and often fail to appreciate their limitations.

 

I appreciate your advice about standing on a tankers bridge (why a tanker) but I'll pass on that for the time being thanks. I think i know what the view from a bridge looks like.

 

Howard

Hi Howard

 

i too have spent many an hour stood on the bridge of ships. Mainly warships of various sizes. ( Great fun ) I once went on the bridge of the Uss Nimitz which was mind boggling and once and only once on an oil tanker and they can see diddly squat they are that massive, thats why I mentioned a tanker though I am not and never will be an expert on sea going vessels

 

Tim

[carlt]

[mrsmelly]

It had to be you Carl............

 

Tim

Blimey, used to fancy her sommet rotten !!

 

Tim

[fudd]

That is why you have crew as look outs.

 

There are very few , if any vessels that have a full 360 degree clear view from the helm.

Mine has.

 

[howardang]

Mine has.

So has mine:-)

 

Howard

[Ange]

Hi Ange

 

Yes assumptions are no use to anyone. I must say though that you have been in the wheelhouse of my daily drive and if you remember i cannot see anything around me only to the front. If something as small as say a narrowboat comes along one side of me and pulls in front of me I will not see it until probably too late as I am far too high up to see it down either side. It is much like the large wagons on the road that have idiot signs on the back reading " If you cant see my mirrors I cannot see you " but wallies still tailgate them often with dire consequences.

Since the Marchioness disaster of which I am well versed legislation has been hugely tightened up and since 2007 a much stricter test has been introduced which invalidates Boatmasters licences pre 2007 for many craft, and definately for anything above 24 metres which is a completely different ballgame.

Myself and colleagues dont even sniff the barmaids apron whilst a t work, I kid you not.

 

Tim

Hey Tim

 

I can see where you're coming from but I still want to know the full facts before we make assumptions. If the NB did sneak alongside the big boat and then cut in front of it that's a very different matter to if the big boat just steamed into the NB - we just don't know which is true.

 

Good to hear the tightening up of the boatmasters licences - I was shocked that the captain could admit to having drank five pints of lager and still keep his. Having had the pleasure of travelling on the Princess I've witnessed firsthand your sobriety while we were downing our beers

 

I wonder if we'll ever get the full story on this?

[carlt]

Hey Tim

 

I can see where you're coming from

It's not surprising, considering the size of his boat.

[Lockie Junior]

[fudd]

So has mine:-)

 

Howard

Yes,but that ones mine!? Edited July 27, 2013 by fudd

[Ange]

It's not surprising, considering the size of his boat.

 

Set meself up for that one didn't I!

[GUMPY]

 

 

 

Good to hear the tightening up of the boatmasters licences - I was shocked that the captain could admit to having drank five pints of lager and still keep his. Having had the pleasure of travelling on the Princess I've witnessed firsthand your sobriety while we were downing our beers

 

I wonder if we'll ever get the full story on this?

One thing to point out is he had his 5 pints at lunchtime abd the accident happened some 7hours later. Don't suppose anyone here had had 5 pints at night and driven the next morning.

There were many other factors that caused the accident many of which were nothing to do with the Bow-belle or her skipper.

[Ange]

One thing to point out is he had his 5 pints at lunchtime abd the accident happened some 7hours later. Don't suppose anyone here had had 5 pints at night and driven the next morning.

There were many other factors that caused the accident many of which were nothing to do with the Bow-belle or her skipper.

7 hours isn't enough time to get rid of 5 pints - your comment about driving the morning after the night before is irrelevant - two wrongs don't make a right.

 

And yes, I know there were other factors, I just chose to comment on one.

[howardang]

7 hours isn't enough time to get rid of 5 pints - your comment about driving the morning after the night before is irrelevant - two wrongs don't make a right.

 

And yes, I know there were other factors, I just chose to comment on one.

Just a point about your earlier comments abut the Boatmasters licence and the master of Bowbelle. He didn't hold a Boatmasters certificate, but as far as I remember he held a Class 1 certificate (master mariner). This in no way excuses the fact that he supposedly drank 5 pints of lager in the afternoon before sailing in the evening which in my opinion is asking for trouble. One other point about this incident which is relevant to the limited visibility mentioned by Tim; the court of enquiry were unhappy about the limited visibility from the wheelhouse of some trip boats on the Thames, including Marchioness.

 

Howard

Edited July 28, 2013 by howardang

[Guest]

7 hours isn't enough time to get rid of 5 pints - your comment about driving the morning after the night before is irrelevant - two wrongs don't make a right.

 

And yes, I know there were other factors, I just chose to comment on one.

A lot depends on the recipients tolerance to alcohol, their body weight and their gender.

 

In some circumstances 7 hours after the last drink drunk could, though not always be long enough to dissipate 5 pints.

 

Back then beers and lagers would be weaker than what we are familiar with so it may very well be possible to be under the limit for drink driving which is why he probably got away with it.

 

Of course whether he was wise to skipper such a vessel with any alcohol in his blood is a different matter.

[carlt]

 

Back then beers and lagers would be weaker than what we are familiar with so it may very well be possible to be under the limit for drink driving which is why he probably got away with it.

 

 

"Back then" was only 1989 and your experience may be different but I was having no problems obtaining strong ales in the 80s even in London (where admittedly they had to import decent beer from up North).

[Ange]

"Back then" was only 1989 and your experience may be different but I was having no problems obtaining strong ales in the 80s even in London (where admittedly they had to import decent beer from up North).

Our "beer" of choice in the '80s was Hurlimanns (which we use to nickname Hooligans), a Shepherd Neame brewery lager 4.8%

 

Mixing Hurlimanns with strong cider was also a favourite at the time, though some landlords refused to serve this particular type of snakebite.