Battery Life

[Geoff]

I'm replacing a couple of my batteries and if the price is reasonable like to use my local boatyard to help his trade instead of a "battery supplier"

 

However the boatyards turnover of batteries is probably lower with batteries on the shelf for months, I wondered as a battery probably has a useful life of 4-5 years (depending on use), when does the aging process begin ?

Is it when manufactured, or from when it is put into use ie from when the discharge/charge cycles start ?

 

Any thoughts

 

Geoff

[Robbo]

Manufactured date, battery's discharge without been used.

[jodansgang]

I'll second that notion. Storage conditions are all important too.

[RobinJ]

I'm replacing a couple of my batteries and if the price is reasonable like to use my local boatyard to help his trade instead of a "battery supplier"

 

I wondered as a battery probably has a useful life of 4-5 years (depending on use), when does the aging process begin ?

Is it when manufactured, or from when it is put into use ie from when the discharge/charge cycles start ?

When batteries (lead acid) are manufactured, they are empty!

Once filled they have to be kept charged!

So from when they get filled up?

Who knows when that was, most only have a charge week on them!

[by'eck]

I'm replacing a couple of my batteries and if the price is reasonable like to use my local boatyard to help his trade instead of a "battery supplier"

 

However the boatyards turnover of batteries is probably lower with batteries on the shelf for months, I wondered as a battery probably has a useful life of 4-5 years (depending on use), when does the aging process begin ?

Is it when manufactured, or from when it is put into use ie from when the discharge/charge cycles start ?

 

Any thoughts

 

Geoff

 

Dry charged batteries have a very long shelf life, with the electrolyte supplied separately or obtained from a tyre and battery dealer. This is the state open cell batteries are shipped in.

 

If you can source such you will have no worries.

Edited March 8, 2013 by by'eck

[vicafloat]

I'm replacing a couple of my batteries and if the price is reasonable like to use my local boatyard to help his trade instead of a "battery supplier"

 

However the boatyards turnover of batteries is probably lower with batteries on the shelf for months, I wondered as a battery probably has a useful life of 4-5 years (depending on use), when does the aging process begin ?

Is it when manufactured, or from when it is put into use ie from when the discharge/charge cycles start ?

 

Any thoughts

 

Geoff

The experts say that you should always change the whole bank of domestic batteries,the theory being that any

older batteries may have deteriorated to the extent that they drag any new ones down. The Smartgauge website

has a great deal of good information,and to view prices look at Alpha batteries of Rochdale,they take on-line

orders and deliver quickly (I am not connected with them,apart from being a satisfied customer!)

[Keeping Up]

The experts say that you should always change the whole bank of domestic batteries,the theory being that any

older batteries may have deteriorated to the extent that they drag any new ones down. The Smartgauge website

has a great deal of good information,and to view prices look at Alpha batteries of Rochdale,they take on-line

orders and deliver quickly (I am not connected with them,apart from being a satisfied customer!)

 

 

No they don't.

 

The older batteries will only affect the new ones if they have developed a short-circuited cell. Otherwise, if they are merely aged and suphated, there is no issue other than the fact that the new batteries may be getting no help from the old ones so they may age more quickly than if they were in a full bank,

[Adora Belle]

I currently have sealed maintenance free batteries but I have read the top up ones are better and last longer, we are only weekend and holiday boaters, which would be best?

[nicknorman]

I currently have sealed maintenance free batteries but I have read the top up ones are better and last longer, we are only weekend and holiday boaters, which would be best?

Sealed maintenance free batteries have the advantage that they can probably cope with more extreme angles, and don't need any maintenance. Or rather, can't be maintained. The "top up" ones might spill acid if you take your boat across the channel and it rolls right over, but then that would probably be the least of your worries! They also require a little maintenance in terms of topping them up with distilled water. Depending on your charging system, this is likely to be once a year or less with your usage, so not really very onerous.

 

Therefore I would have "top up" ones every time.

[Ex- Member]

I currently have sealed maintenance free batteries but I have read the top up ones are better and last longer, we are only weekend and holiday boaters, which would be best?

 

Stick with sealed for light use IMO Wet lead acid are good for frequent discharging and recharging heavy use. If you're only weekending then you're not going to be hammering the batteries like that of a live aboard.

[dor]

Stick with sealed for light use IMO Wet lead acid are good for frequent discharging and recharging heavy use. If you're only weekending then you're not going to be hammering the batteries like that of a live aboard.

 

I disagree to some extent with the second part here. The problem with just weekending is that you use the batteries quite a bit, then, unless you are cruising for a long day on the last day you are leaving the battery only partly charged. The next weekend you come along and use the batteries some more and they are left for the following week even less well charged.

 

However there are two ways round this: one is if you are in a marina then a multistage charger can be left on all week which will fully recharge the batteries. The other is to fit a solar panel to do the same job. The solar panel in winter however will still struggle to get your batteries full over the several days you are away.

[nicknorman]

Stick with sealed for light use IMO Wet lead acid are good for frequent discharging and recharging heavy use. If you're only weekending then you're not going to be hammering the batteries like that of a live aboard.

Or to put it another way, if you have a cassette toilet you should have sealed batteries. If you have a pumpout you should have flooded wet cells.

[bottle]

I have read the top up ones are better and last longer,

 

Only if you treat them better than the sealed ones.

 

Batteries will last as long as they last, if they are charged correctly and not discharged excessively they will last for some years.

 

If not correctly charged and excessively discharged they may only last a few weeks.

 

Check with the manufacturer as to what your batteries need, voltage for instance.

[Naughty Cal]

No they don't.

 

The older batteries will only affect the new ones if they have developed a short-circuited cell. Otherwise, if they are merely aged and suphated, there is no issue other than the fact that the new batteries may be getting no help from the old ones so they may age more quickly than if they were in a full bank,

 

Is that true?

 

I thought that mixing batteries was a bad idea because the new ones would never get to 100% SOC as the older ones would limit the amount of charge they recieved hence dragging them down and vastly shortening their lifespan.

 

If one or two batteries in a bank are on their way out it is surely a sign that the rest wont be far behind. You can often get a better price for buying more batteries at once so why not just change the whole bank and start afresh?

[RobinJ]

Is that true?

 

I thought that mixing batteries was a bad idea because the new ones would never get to 100% SOC as the older ones would limit the amount of charge they recieved hence dragging them down and vastly shortening their lifespan.

I think its because an older battery with reduced capacity causes more cycling of the newer ones and in theory reduces their life, not because they don't get to 100%?

Plus, as the batteries will take different times to reach full charge you could have differential water loss!

[smileypete]

I'm replacing a couple of my batteries and if the price is reasonable like to use my local boatyard to help his trade instead of a "battery supplier"

 

However the boatyards turnover of batteries is probably lower with batteries on the shelf for months, I wondered as a battery probably has a useful life of 4-5 years (depending on use), when does the aging process begin ?

Is it when manufactured, or from when it is put into use ie from when the discharge/charge cycles start ?

Going back to the OPs question, for unsealed batts it's worth checking the terminal voltage and specific gravity (acid strength) on purchase, and noting it down. If the batt has an acid strength outside the range 1.265-1.285, or the cells show a lot of variation within this, I'd query it with the supplier.

 

Also for unsealed batts there's usually a lip or bar or something in the 'fill well' to indicate the topping up level, if the acid level is below this again I'd query it with the supplier.

 

cheers, Pete

~smpt~

[kittsy]

lead acid every time sealed do not last and will not discharge as much as a lead acid they simply do not recover THINK ABOUT IT THE WORDS MAINTENANCE FREE THATS WOT YOU WILL EXPECT far from it they need closer attention as to discharge or it will cost you again and you can forget warranty it wont count if you have discharged them beyond there limit a simple test will show this with a pulse tester so in conclusion LEAD ACID EVERY TIME and a good charging system and alternator

[DHutch]

... This is the state open cell batteries are shipped in.

It depends what you determine as 'shipped' im sure 98% of marina have there batteries arrive wet and charged. At which point, if they have been on the shelf for a year, and not changed since delivery...

Obviously it depends on the marina and there staff, they may have good stock rotation, and change there batteries from time to time. Else they may not.

 

 

Daniel

[alan_fincher]

lead acid every time sealed do not last and will not discharge as much as a lead acid they simply do not recover THINK ABOUT IT THE WORDS MAINTENANCE FREE THATS WOT YOU WILL EXPECT far from it they need closer attention as to discharge or it will cost you again and you can forget warranty it wont count if you have discharged them beyond there limit a simple test will show this with a pulse tester so in conclusion LEAD ACID EVERY TIME and a good charging system and alternator

Surely, either way, we are only talking about lead acid batteries, whether sealed or unsealed?

 

Even a normal "sealed battery is still bog standard lead acid technology, isn't it?

 

Although no expert, I've always assumed there is little great difference other that on one type you can take the caps off, and on the others they are glued in!

 

I'm sure the experts will be along to say if I'm working from a complete misunderstanding, though!

[Keeping Up]

The sealed ones tend to have things added to reduce the amount of gassing. Calcium is one of the technologies used, and is also used in some unsealed batteries now. I am beginning to have grave doubts about Calcium technology in leisure batteries; I'd never had any problems until it came along, since then I've had 3 sets of problematic Calcium batteries in 2 years (both sealed and unsealed). I am now spending this summer doing some detailed research of voltage readings taken many times every day, with a borrowed set of batteries from my supplier who is understandibly reluctant to give me a 4th set under guarantee until he knows why I keep killing them.

 

One suggestion is that the small amount of gassing which batteries normally experience, is a very good thing because it disturbs the sulphate as it forms. Adding Calcium stops the gassing, which is useful if you want to seal the batteries, but this means that they sulphate more quickly. The only way around it seems to be to increase the charge voltage to get more gassing, which rather defeats the purpose of the Calcium and is a somewhat risky practice when the batteries are sealed.

[bizzard]

Sealeb leab acib batteries are just orbinary batteries with a little extra electrolite space above the plates anb are filleb slightly more than a top upable one in the hope that the battery will see its life out before it shoulb neeb topping up.

You can usually gently break the glue anb lever up the top oblong cell cover to reveal the normal six filler holes for topping up.

[ditchcrawler]

Sealeb leab acib batteries are just orbinary batteries with a little extra electrolite space above the plates anb are filleb slightly more than a top upable one in the hope that the battery will see its life out before it shoulb neeb topping up.

You can usually gently break the glue anb lever up the top oblong cell cover to reveal the normal six filler holes for topping up.

I did my keyboard with a little battery powered vacuum cleaner like this http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/120993484462?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0

[bizzard]

I did my keyboard with a little battery powered vacuum cleaner like this http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/120993484462?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla&crdt=0

Yes B.C, I cleareb mine last week like that when I had a crumb unber my P key. This is a new crumb which if I press harb enough boes work but makes a horrib crunching sounb like when you treab on a snail, I'll have to bo it again in a minute.

[alan_fincher]

Yes B.C, I cleareb mine last week like that when I had a crumb unber my P key. This is a new crumb which if I press harb enough boes work but makes a horrib crunching sounb like when you treab on a snail, I'll have to bo it again in a minute.

Don't you mean your "B key" or did you just press hard at that point!

[ditchcrawler]

Yes B.C, I cleareb mine last week like that when I had a crumb unber my P key. This is a new crumb which if I press harb enough boes work but makes a horrib crunching sounb like when you treab on a snail, I'll have to bo it again in a minute.

I also bought a sheet of silicon from the pound shop that sticks over the keyboard to keep fresh crumbs out http://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-Silicone-Keyboard-Protector-Netbook/dp/B004ISBMRU