Talk me out of a widebeam please

[Athy]

Yello,

 

Please don't take the bait Athy ...it was purely a reactive, throw away comment.

Blueo,

My response was somewhat tongue-in-cheeko.

[Guest]

Simple answer. They cost twice as much and I and many others dont want to venture to Europe

 

Tim

 

 

 

Mike

 

Cows droppings to you I often go out on my boat and for every widebeam that never moves I can show you ten narrowbeam that never move.

 

Tim

 

Oh and why do ya need to look down the side of the boat entering locks etc I can enter a lock within an inch of the side without the need to move from the tiller either way.

I have to agree that "boats that never move" are not confined to widebeams.

 

If only the locks throughout the country had been built to a sensible width like the L & L, there would be no need for these funny little narrow boats (I'm a narrow boat owner by default.) At least we can breast up our narrow boats on the L&L, whic releases one person for locking.

[Guest]

What do you mean by 'replica'? There are a lot of very nice new build barges and they're a lot less god awful than any new build (replica) narrowboat.

 

My current 'lottery' boat -

 

 

http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=259845

 

PS - note it has a cassette AND a pump-out.....

Edited October 14, 2012 by The Dog House

[mrsmelly]

I don't think opinion on that is so vehemently polarised. Dare I venture to suggest that 90% of boaters favour coal?

 

Naaaaaaaah at least 95%

 

Tim

[Kiwipeter]

Utter rubbish!

 

I looked at several DB designs and builds in my search for a new boat. For the same length a WBNB has much more useable floor space than a DB. All them lovely curves eat into interior space.'

 

I feel you have carefully twisted my 'the (Dutch Barge) usually provides better living space and working space and is much more usable if you want to venture to Europe.' to your 'usable floor space'. Depends on how you measure usable floor space!

 

Those working decks provide very good storage beneath. A wheelhouse might encourage use in bad weather (and makes a good overflow dining room/bunkhouse). The engine room is usually good working and storage space compared to a wide beam. Much safer to work on rivers and through Europe (not for everyone) etc.

 

Everyone to their own opinion, but a friend with a (longer) Liverpool wide beam would tear my arm off if I offered to swap my older Sagar

 

Peter

[MtB]

Thought of two more, added to the list:

 

Widebeam Vs Narrowboat

Pumpout Vs cassette

Ecofans: love Vs hate

Modern engine Vs vintage engine

Best boatpet: dogs Vs cats

 

 

Sorry Spiritofalbion, Coal Vs diesel stoves didn't make the cut!

[MtB]

My current 'lottery' boat -

 

http://barges.apollo...phtml?id=259845

 

PS - note it has a cassette AND a pump-out.....

 

Nah, this is FAR nicer!

 

http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=271420

[Guest]

Nah, this is FAR nicer!

 

http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=271420

 

Not sure TBH - nice looking fit out I agree but I don't think they make as good use of the space as they do in the smaller Sea Otter one, and there is no way I'd want to sleep in that wardrobe affair.

Edited October 14, 2012 by The Dog House

[Magic Potion]

Thought of two more, added to the list:

 

Widebeam Vs Narrowboat

Pumpout Vs cassette

Ecofans: love Vs hate

Modern engine Vs vintage engine

Best boatpet: dogs Vs cats

 

 

Sorry Spiritofalbion, Coal Vs diesel stoves didn't make the cut!

 

Gutted, really I am. When I buy, I'll be going with the majority vote anyway.

[MtB]

Not sure TBH - nice looking fit out I agree but I don't think they make as good use of the space as they do in the smaller Sea Otter one, and there is no way I'd want to sleep in that wardrobe affair.

 

Insides can be changed. Doesn't she look MAGNIFICENT on the outside!!!!

[Guest]

Insides can be changed. Doesn't she look MAGNIFICENT on the outside!!!!

 

No argument there -

[oarfish]

What do you mean by 'replica'? There are a lot of very nice new build barges and they're a lot less god awful than any new build (replica) narrowboat.

 

Yes there are some lovely new dutch barges (like the one I linked to) they tend to be eye wateringly expensive. There are also quite a few horrid looking 'dutch barge style' narrow and wide beam narrowboats.

 

 

1/2 a million worth of lottery boat, bit too big for UK though

 

Dutch barge style lump

Edited October 14, 2012 by oarfish

[RLWP]

You could do better than £500,000. How about £125,000?

 

 

http://www.boatwizardwebsolutions.co.uk/pls/tingdene.php?rPage=/privatelabel/listing/pl_boat_detail_handler.jsp?slim=pp283435&units=Feet&boat_id=2251053&primary_photo_id=1&primary_photo_url=http%3A%2F%2Fnewimages.yachtworld.com%2Fresize%2F1%2F22%2F35%2F3272235_20120412013757_1_LARGE.jpg&back=%2Fprivatelabel%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Fpl_search_results.jsp%3Fslim%3Dpp283435%26so%3D4%26sm%3D3%26is%3Dfalse%26ywoid%3D112847%26cit%3Dtrue&searchtype=buy

 

Richard

[Guest]

You could do better than £500,000. How about £125,000?

 

 

 

Richard

 

Man U or Middlesbrough supporters need only apply ....

[alan_fincher]

I can't imagine why people buy a widebeam rather than a UK compatible dutch barge - the latter usually provides better living space and working space and is much more usable if you want to venture to Europe.

 

Peter

In my opinion, one major reason why a lot of the "widebeam narrow boats", (what a ludicrous description!), work better on many of the "broad" canals than other wide-beam boats is that they are more likely to be tiller steered.

 

Yes, I'm aware that a number of people will pop up saying I have no trouble maneuvering my long wheel steered boat, (either narrow or wide), into locks and through bridges, but from my observation over a number of years, very few people are able to control a long wheel-steered steel boat with anything like the accuracy that is achieved by tiller steering.

 

I have seen several big wide-beams where they have elected to go wheel-steered, and where those in charge are totally clueless about doing anywhere without bouncing off things on first one side of the cut, and then the other. Indeed I have seen much the same with wheel steered narrowboats, but to a lesser degree. I suspect this may be because on narrowboats the wheel is usually placed close enough to one side that the skipper has a chance of sighting down that side as an aid to following a straight line.

 

I'll quickly add that two of the few people I have seen steer a long wheel-steered boat well are forum owner Dan, and his grandad Tom, with their Emily Ann, so it can be done, with a sensible set-up, and the right skills.

[GUMPY]

Its nothing to do with wheel or tiller its all down to the muppet in control or not as the case may be.

 

Having said that a properly set up wheel system is a doddle to steer where you want to.

 

Coming back to tiller steering I find I need to concentrate far more after 10 years of wheel steering.

[Albion]

Its nothing to do with wheel or tiller its all down to the muppet in control or not as the case may be.

 

Having said that a properly set up wheel system is a doddle to steer where you want to.

 

Coming back to tiller steering I find I need to concentrate far more after 10 years of wheel steering.

To some extent your first sentence is true however, having had experience of both systems, the thing that you miss with wheel steering (hydraulically actuated rudder I'm talking now) is feedback. With a properly sized and installed tiller/rudder system you get constant feedback by the pressure resisting your effort to move it. There is no significant feedback with a wheel system and that is why you have rudder position indicators on a lot of hydraulically operated rudder systems; and very useful they are too. However, until you get used to a wheel you do tend to zig-zag slightly due to the deadness of feel and lack of feedback and this is why some people will look like muppets. How long they remain like muppets will depend on their natural skills, learning skills and intelligence

Roger

Edited October 14, 2012 by Albion

[GUMPY]

I guess that getting a sagar cured your zig zag problems :-)

[Albion]

I guess that getting a sagar cured your zig zag problems :-)

The previous wheel steered heap of carp had a tendency to wander off where it liked with no warning.........however we fixed that before we sold it with extensive mods to the underwater steelwork. The present Sagar steers like a dream thank you very much

Both the tiller steered nbs that we've owned have been easy to handle and particularly the last one.

Roger (en France)

[mattlad]

Thought of two more, added to the list:

 

Widebeam Vs Narrowboat

Pumpout Vs cassette

Ecofans: love Vs hate

Modern engine Vs vintage engine

Best boatpet: dogs Vs cats

 

 

Sorry Spiritofalbion, Coal Vs diesel stoves didn't make the cut!

 

Engine room vs under the counter......

 

Gas vs gas free......

[Kiwipeter]

I agree the feedback/instant response of a tiller is better but after a few months experience wheel/hydraulic steering is fine (I exclude chain rudders which I haven't used).

 

Peter

[Biggles]

 

 

I looked at several DB designs and builds in my search for a new boat. For the same length a WBNB has much more useable floor space than a DB. All them lovely curves eat into interior space.'

 

 

I feel you have carefully twisted my 'the (Dutch Barge) usually provides better living space and working space and is much more usable if you want to venture to Europe.' to your 'usable floor space'. Depends on how you measure usable floor space!

 

Those working decks provide very good storage beneath. A wheelhouse might encourage use in bad weather (and makes a good overflow dining room/bunkhouse). The engine room is usually good working and storage space compared to a wide beam. Much safer to work on rivers and through Europe (not for everyone) etc.

 

Everyone to their own opinion, but a friend with a (longer) Liverpool wide beam would tear my arm off if I offered to swap my older Sagar

 

Peter

 

Well it's a Liverpool that would make sense. Mine is wheel steered from the rear, and while I agree the wheel house does make a good space the cruiser stern which is 11x 8 is no cramped social area and under a pram hood which becomes an open air in under 2 minutes. As for engine room space, I have the engine, generator, toilet tank and a massive battery box oh and the CH boiler in there and I can still easily move around each side to access the remaining storage space which currently holds wet vac,pressure washed and a mass of tools to. And of course I still have the front deck which can seat 6 people comfortably and provide an additional entrance and exit. Under the seats there is additional storage and I have a forward locker too. I have storage in my BT locker and 2200l water tank. I also have 6'6"" of headroom throughout most of the cabin space with an air draft canopy down of 1.4m and a draft of .8m.

 

So on balance I think I have much more usable space for my diamentions. And I probably weigh in at 8 tones under the equivalent DB.

 

Finally i have a chined hull so it has pretty good stability and directional stability. It will be going to France.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Biggles

[billS]

I ain't never - no never, seen fake rivets on a widebeam.

 

Thats all I like

[Ex- Member]

Interesting thread

 

Personally lots of narrowboats look aweful and some look quite good. The same goes for widebeams. Lots do look aweful and have little finesse but others can look really good as we of course think ours does.

 

A the end of the day if you buy a boat with the intention of living on it full time, a n/b is a poor choice for someone my size It simply would have a detrimental effect on my health especially with regard to back pain and the effects of that into the future. Lynn although much smaller than me but I would consider her an average build had the same problem when trying out a n/b Ok for a short period but after a week was sttruggling with aches and pains.

 

So when we decided to buy a boat it was definitely going to be a wide beam, but all along we didn't want to go tthe 12/6 or even 13 f/t route, to us this was simply to difficult to comfortably navigate and hroughout our search for a w/b never came across anything that looked asthetically pleasing at that width. At one point we had decided on 8.6 or 9 f/t as we had seen an 60 f/t x 8.6 boat in Lincoln and at first glance thought it was a normal n/b In comparison to a n/b it was really spacious with just that couple of extra feet.

 

Anyway we evenually ended up going 10.6 I just so happened our builder had a 10.6 partially finished and when me and Lynn had a good look and feel of the space available we decided that was the size for us. We could well have gone 12.6 for a pittance of extra money, but seeing this boat we both knew this would be easily managable for navigation and give us ample living accomodation.

 

When we eventually got it on the canal we had little problem in manouvring turning and very little hassle in locks. My brother who purchased a 60f/t N/b at the same time from the same builder tried our boat out on a few occasions and was extremely surprised at how well it handled considering it's size to his in comparison.

 

Ok we can't navigate the entire network of canals but there's plenty we can especially if we decide to go up North or even France.

 

For anyone considering buying a wide beam to CC I would urge them to try something a bit narrower as it might make the actual manouvring of the craft a more pleasant experience.

 

We did note on the K&A that W/B boaters at full width did become a pain especially when passing mored boats and other full width wide beams and many of the skippers we observed seem to be struggling with their craft in tricky areas and locks.

[Pykebird]

Having been "lucky" enough to have lived for several years on both a wide beam and a narrow boat, each have their different good and bad points.The wide beam had a tiller with hydrolic steering and then we fitted a wheel. I found the tiller much easier to deal with. She did swim quite well and we spent most of the time driving backwards in the dark! (don't ask, it's a man thing). But I do prefer my narrow boat, maybe something to do with the company on the widebeam!!!