Talk me out of a widebeam please

[Albion]

Just for illustrative purposes and to show comparison with Kiwipeter's big-waterway lock pictures here are two pictures of the two deepest locks that we have encountered on the smaller waterways, the ones that are like the Grand Union as has been said. Neither of these locks is in any way difficult (I have had more frightening, rope straining experiences in the shallower locks where the locky has been careless) as they are very smooth to use but I can honestly say that I've never yet experienced locks like these on the Grand Union.

 

 

This is the entry lock coming on to the Canal du Centre from the River Saone at 10.76 metres

 

 

 

This is the lock at Bourg le Comte on the Canal de Roanne a Digoin at 7.2 metres.

Roger

Edited October 16, 2012 by Albion

[Athy]

OO - errr! They do put Somerton "Deep" Lock into perspective.

[Guest]

OO - errr! They do put Somerton "Deep" Lock into perspective.

 

The first one looks about twice as deep as Lemonroyd or Woodlesford lock on the Aire and Calder and the second only about as half as deep again so no great shakes really.

 

ed - should have added - good pictures though as they make for a good comparison with the stuff in the UK.

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Dog House

[boathunter]

OP here. :blush:

 

A little NHS rant first:

I've been in hospital for few days persuading the NHS that I was too ill to be sent home with painkillers and anti-biotics. Finally after 2 days and threatening the general surgeon, that he should be in no doubt that I would be suing his "Trust" when I was proved right, I got to see a specialist who was shocked I'd been fobbed off, spent 5 mins talking to me, 30 seconds examining me then operated IMMEDIATELY so thanks to him. Perspective: 98% of the people working in the hospital from porters to cleaners, meal providers, ordilies, and some nurses doctors and surgeons were nothing short of excellent. The problem was the few grand people who thought they were responsible for their budget rather than their patients health. If I hadn't been treated, I would very likely have been left needing a colostomy (ironically costing them a whole lot more even in the short term) and that would certainly have made me think twice about moving onto a boat. All's well that ends well I suppose. Rant over and back to the topic.

 

To answer one comment, this thread hasn't surprised me, I love all the banter and I love heart-felt opinions.

 

To answer another, claimed not to be aimed at me but actually clearly aimed at me - why suggest that I should have "done my homework" before asking such a basic question? Doh! This is my homework. On just this one thread I've found out everything I need to know, while lying in bed zonked out on huge doses of morphine, half asleep. Yes I could have studied maps and lock sizes (if I could have seen straight), but whenever this comes up half of them are disputed anyway and we're told not to trust the information given on such lists and maps, with many contributers saying they've been along stretches the maps say they can't. Confusing, but I'd rather hear it from boaters who've actualy done it and know how big their boats are as well.

 

I will admit to being a bit of a dunce in not knowing that a few miles from my mooring are several 7ft locks though - whoops. But that wasn't the question I asked if you look back. I'd heard from another newbie wannabe friend who's main boating experience consists of 4 days where she hired a WB NB, then took it back after 2 days and swapped it for a Narrow one, that steering it was difficult and stopping it was a nightmare. I myself have zero experience of narrowboats apart from spending one fairly drunken night on one (mostly in the pub to be honest, but I did fall asleep on it) so I look up to her experienced which are far greater than mine. She put them in my mind for a minute and while browsing ye olde apollo duck I clicked on a couple of wide beam narrow boats, saw within, then posted my simple question.I do have plenty experience in proper boats with sails though (there's another for your x versus y Mike).

 

It was actually answered a few posts in when it was pointed out that the oxford canal would require a crane and a lorry as well, which I don't have. The rest of the thread has been great education on many subjects - thanks to you all. If I want to sail across the sea I'll catch a ride on a friends large catermeran, which has lots of cabin space inside too, more than a NB, though maybe not quite so much as a WB NB. And before you start: Cat versus monohull is for another forum entirely. I like them both BTW.

 

I'll be living on my NARROWBOAT that will fit on the Oxford canal, and cruising, I hope, for at least half the year, hopefully forever, so the cruising/living arguements are lost on me, I want both. I will however be rather jealous each time I pass a widebeam NB, on the wider bits I'm bound to end up cruising on, as I imagine the comparatively large luxurious space within.

Edited October 16, 2012 by boathunter

[Tuscan]

OP here. :blush:

 

A little NHS rant first:

I've been in hospital for few days persuading the NHS that I was too ill to be sent home with painkillers and anti-biotics. Finally after 2 days and threatening the general surgeon, that he should be in no doubt that I would be suing his "Trust" when I was proved right, I got to see a specialist who was shocked I'd been fobbed off, spent 5 mins talking to me, 30 seconds examining me then operated IMMEDIATELY so thanks to him. Perspective: 98% of the people working in the hospital from porters to cleaners, meal providers, ordilies, and some nurses doctors and surgeons were nothing short of excellent. The problem was the few grand people who thought they were responsible for their budget rather than their patients health. If I hadn't been treated, I would very likely have been left needing a colostomy (ironically costing them a whole lot more even in the short term) and that would certainly have made me think twice about moving onto a boat. All's well that ends well I suppose. Rant over and back to the topic.

 

To answer one comment, this thread hasn't surprised me, I love all the banter and I love heart-felt opinions.

 

To answer another, claimed not to be aimed at me but actually clearly aimed at me - why suggest that I should have "done my homework" before asking such a basic question? Doh! This is my homework. On just this one thread I've found out everything I need to know, while lying in bed zonked out on huge doses of morphine, half asleep. Yes I could have studied maps and lock sizes (if I could have seen straight), but whenever this comes up half of them are disputed anyway and we're told not to trust the information given on such lists and maps, with many contributers saying they've been along stretches the maps say they can't. Confusing, but I'd rather hear it from boaters who've actualy done it and know how big their boats are as well.

 

I will admit to being a bit of a dunce in not knowing that a few miles from my mooring are several 7ft locks though - whoops. But that wasn't the question I asked if you look back. I'd heard from another newbie wannabe friend who's main boating experience consists of 4 days where she hired a WB NB, then took it back after 2 days and swapped it for a Narrow one, that steering it was difficult and stopping it was a nightmare. I myself have zero experience of narrowboats apart from spending one fairly drunken night on one (mostly in the pub to be honest, but I did fall asleep on it) so I look up to her experienced which are far greater than mine. She put them in my mind for a minute and while browsing ye olde apollo duck I clicked on a couple of wide beam narrow boats, saw within, then posted my simple question.I do have plenty experience in proper boats with sails though (there's another for your x versus y Mike).

 

It was actually answered a few posts in when it was pointed out that the oxford canal would require a crane and a lorry as well, which I don't have. The rest of the thread has been great education on many subjects - thanks to you all. If I want to sail across the sea I'll catch a ride on a friends large catermeran, which has lots of cabin space inside too, more than a NB, though maybe not quite so much as a WB NB. And before you start: Cat versus monohull is for another forum entirely. I like them both BTW.

 

I'll be living on my NARROWBOAT that will fit on the Oxford canal, and cruising, I hope, for at least half the year, hopefully forever, so the cruising/living arguements are lost on me, I want both. I will however be rather jealous each time I pass a widebeam NB, on the wider bits I'm bound to end up cruising on, as I imagine the comparatively large luxurious space within.

 

I think you should rent a boat for a week to get a feel for what is involved and the space/cost issues. Right now if you didn't even realise that the Hillmorton flight was narrow you need to get out and about and talk to some of the boaters you see.

[boathunter]

I think you should rent a boat for a week to get a feel for what is involved and the space/cost issues. Right now if you didn't even realise that the Hillmorton flight was narrow you need to get out and about and talk to some of the boaters you see.

I do write generally with my tongue slightly in my cheek. I'm no stranger to roughing it a bit - I like it.

 

I squatted a series of housing association houses in London after the council handed them too many uninhabitable houses for them to cope with in the early eighties. The only way they could maintain them from thieves etc was to more less invite squatters to live in them rent free. We looked after some real gems for a few years.

 

I've also spent the winter in a transit van - that wasn't so great! In fact is was bloody awful - no heating. Fair enough I've grown used to a house while bringing up my family but If I can manage a couple of weeks in a VW camper, a NB is roomy and well equipped in comparison.

 

I have a very nice cheap large privately owned mooring next to a wooded plot and I'm welcome to clear as much fuel from it as I can manage. I have exclusive parking/large plot I can put up a big shed on. I'm not short of funds.

 

Historically I'm a mechanical/electrical/civil consultant engineer, I can use 3D CAD. Now, I'm a semi-retired classic car restorer/mechanic. I can weld and build/ fix/ tune and fault find engines and 12V wiring, prep and paint 2-pac. I can design lightning protection, and power supply circuits, I fix everything at home from washing machine to car, van, plumbing, building bathrooms, moving walls etc. I've gradually chopped all the tree down in my large garden, logged them and burnt them in the fire over the past 15 years. I moved and renovated a 50 year old large hardwood summhouse and fitted it out for an insulated office with heat, telephone, rain-water soakaways etc. I mean I did it - I didn't project manage. I've fitted an eberspacher in my camper as well as a very clever (if I say so myself) bespoke interior.

 

I regularly sail/race dinghies and have all my life. I also trip about round the coast on friends proper sailing boats so I know a little about life on the water and boats in general. My son has a skippers licence of some sort (not the son who'll share the boat unfortuneately).

 

See - not completely green, but I find if I pretend to be a bit thick I get better answers. I wouldn't have actually bought a boat without checking I could get about in it and I honestly I know I'll be as happy as a skylark in a narrowboat even if a wider one would have more comfort. When I look at which parts of my large house I actually use other than for walking between the bits I do use, it's a chair, a shower, a bog, a bed, a fridge and a cooker. Sounds good to me? I'm under no illusion that living on a boat is free and easy, but living in a large crumbling house isn't either.

 

Thanks for your well meaning advice, but don't worry about me - I'm hoping the boat of my dreams turns out to be 100's of miles from my mooring - a good start I think - if it took 6 months to plod home via a series of "adventures" I'd be more happy than if it were round the corner. It's the way I do everything - jump in at the deep end. Hiring one first would somehow spoil the fun. I wouldn't have done much that I've enjoyed most in life if I'd dwelled on the negatives too much. I could look back and see I could have been an unhappy millionaire a few times over if that's what I'd wanted but that's not me. I'm energetic and resourceful and have the confidence and general life experience to jump into boating on a little narrowboat without a worry. If it breaks I'll fix it. If I don't like the layout, I'll change it. I don't have the pressure of time/money for a good ten years even If I do nothing at all to earn. The most challenging thing is to learn the rules of canal living so I'm not a nuisance to anyone. I do love to learn.

 

Bring it on!

[deletedaccount]

If anyone wanted to swap their widebeam for my narrowboat I'd be interested!

[mrsmelly]

If anyone wanted to swap their widebeam for my narrowboat I'd be interested!

 

When I wanted to sell my very nice narrowboat last year to buy a widebeam I put an add on the duck for swop p/x for a widebeam for a couple of weeks or so and not one person enquired. Lots of people move up to widebeam but it seems not many go back to narrow.

 

Tim

[FadeToScarlet]

When I wanted to sell my very nice narrowboat last year to buy a widebeam I put an add on the duck for swop p/x for a widebeam for a couple of weeks or so and not one person enquired. Lots of people move up to widebeam but it seems not many go back to narrow.

 

Tim

 

Once you've had fat, you'll never go back....

[Pykebird]

With skills like you have, boathunter, you will not be short of mates once you get on the cut!

Edited October 18, 2012 by pykebird

[boathunter]

With skills like you have, boathunter, you will not be short of mates once you get on the cut!

That's what I hope PB - duck and dive.

[FidoDido]

Your mooring is on a narrow lock canal... You would have to crane it in, and never move it. Might as well buy a house, or static.

 

Back to narrow boats

 

Nottingham boat sales have two colecraft ones which look good.. Pillings lock might have a suitable one too..

Edited October 18, 2012 by FidoDido

[Biggles]

Once you've had fat, you'll never go back....

 

 

Only where boats are concerned.

[boathunter]

Your mooring is on a narrow lock canal... You would have to crane it in, and never move it. Might as well buy a house, or static.

 

Back to narrow boats

 

Nottingham boat sales have two colecraft ones which look good.. Pillings lock might have a suitable one too..

Thanks Rob, I got that quite a few posts ago. Out of action right now after a 3 day fight with unexpected visit to Addenbrookes and everything's on hold for a few weeks (if I'm lucky). Not even looking at boat ads for a while as I can't go and check them out. Hey-ho.

 

Only where boats are concerned.

Edited October 18, 2012 by boathunter

[Starcoaster]

The standard 'hire a boat' and the other staple 'find a boat to hire and live on one in the winter for as long as possible before buying if you can' thing, really is good advice.

 

However, this time last year, the amount of money I had to buy a boat with was so little that I was only actually looking at steel narrow boats as a nice abstract idea, and had more or less resigned myself to having to buy a small GRP cruiser, should I even be able to afford that. I certainly didn't have 1k to throw down on a week's hire first, much less being able to live aboard on a rented boat for a much longer period of time before making my ultimate decision to buy. I have been thinking a lot about the time I have spent living on my boat of late, being as it will be my one year anniversary on Halloween.

 

I suppose I am basically a kind of cautionary tale on how not to do things... From the boating background of absolutely nothing, I made a mad throwaway bid on a narrow boat on Ebay and won it for about half of the 'going rate' as it was established to be at the time, sight unseen, and nearly committed an anal hygiene violation when I won it; I had pretty much only placed a bid on it at all knowing that I didn't stand a chance of getting it on my budget.

 

And so, the first time that I set foot aboard a narrow boat in my life was the day that I went to pay the deposit on it after the survey, and the first night I spent aboard any kind of boat was the night that I moved onto this, my own boat, having just handed over all of the money I had in the world to buy it, in cash.

And I'd joined this forum and done a total of about three weeks of research before making my purchase. On Ebay, FFS. Do not do that, it's mad. I still get antsy now when I think about just how wrong that could potentially have turned out for me.

 

But I knew, I knew, in that way that you know something with absolute certainty just once or twice over the course of your life, that it was the right choice for me, I was meant to have this particular boat, and if I didn't do it at that precise point, it wasn't going to happen.

 

The day I moved in, I'd sold all of my furniture (in the main part furniture that I had bought brand new within the last six months, and subsequently made a huge loss on), reduced the amount of 'stuff' I had to the bare minimum, got to the boat, and promptly realised I couldn't fit everything in. Standing on the pontoon at dusk, with the removal van motoring off into the distance, it would be hard to overstate how alone and panicky I felt at that point.

When I got my head together and ponied up, I had to deal with the fact that the boat was filthy inside, the windows had been leaking for months and had ruined all the bench seats, and I had no bed, which wasn't a problem as such as I had no space to sleep on anyway. By 11pm I had not one clear foot of floor, cupboard or worktop space left inside, nowhere to sleep, half of my stuff still on the roof, my cats were pissed off, it had started to rain, the windows were peeing in water, the fridge didn't work, I couldn't light the gas to even make tea, there was no one around for miles (so I thought at the time) and I was sitting on the floor by my cold stove drinking wine from a bottle that I'd had to smash the neck of to get into, crying my eyes out.

I’m not going to say that it miraculously came right for me in some kind of sudden epiphany, because that would involve glossing over some very low points and minimising the genuine feelings of isolation and stupidity at what I had done that I felt for a lot of the time during my first week on the boat. But I got out of bed (or rather, rolled off of the bench seat which I was sleeping on) each day, and went out, and talked to people and connected with a whole community of real people, both online and in person, of other boaters who had all done just what I had done at some point (albeit generally better prepared)! And who were able to help me get to grips with the reality of living on a boat, and teach me to laugh at myself, not sweat the small stuff, manage what I had, and see how things were in the greater scheme of things, and generally just get on with dealing with the life of the average boater, day by day.

 

I woke up one day towards the end of my first week on the boat, and realised that I was ON A BOAT that I OWNED. A tiny, scruffy boat with a whole load of problems, filthy and leaking and full of crap and with no bed, shower or water, nothing to cook on and no heat, but it was MY BOAT. So it’s fair to say it got better fast.

After about a week, I got the fridge sussed (note to OP- 12v fridges don't have an internal light, nor do they make a noise... this does not mean, as I thought for a week, that they don't work! ) got the gas on, got on with it. People on the cut, and on the forum, WILL help you, even if you've made a really stupid rookie error or ask something really stupid- you just have to ask. And be prepared for a fair amount of good natured piss taking too.

 

I spent the whole of last winter with no bed, no mattress, no inside plumbing, having to walk ten minutes each way on a daily basis to shower and fill up water bottles, and I didn't care. Now that I have a water tank, fixed double bed, mattress, running taps and holy shit, a bathroom, I am amazed that I managed as philosophically as I did, but hey, you make your choices and you deal with the results, no? I was as happy as the proverbial pig in shit on MY BOAT.

 

What I am basically saying is this. It might not be easy to do, depending on where you're coming from and what you class as 'hardship.' Knowing that in advance is VITAL. If you can't deal with emptying your own bog and collecting your own fuel and having to spend time every week thinking about where your water supply is going to come from, then you're going to hate it.

But if you know that all of this shit is just part of the great game, and that humanity can and does manage with a hell of a lot less than we in the modern Western world are used to dealing with- and I don't think it's any bad thing to have to think about where your water comes from, where your waste goes, and how much fuel you use, but it's certainly not for everyone- then you will be ok.

 

For sure, don't be a div about it- learn what you can now, while you can make a fairly informed decision, and see off a lot of your potential rookie mistakes and errors before you commit to a purchase, and you're clearly already doing that- you're way better informed than I was at the same stage, plus you also have a really useful range of skills which will translate over into your boating life which I personally do not have, which will make things easier for you as you go along.

 

So yeah, hiring boats and stuff IS useful, and if you have the time and money to do it, I'd totally say go for it.

But lots of us got here without being able to do that, and made it work.

You said you’ve spent times in squats and living in an unheated van etc., and that is clearly a much greater level of potential work just to get by and fulfil your basic needs on a daily basis by modern standards than living on a boat should ever be.

I spent about a third of my childhood on and off on the road living under the catch-all title of being a 'gypsy' child, so I dunno, maybe I had a head start. You've not been posting here long, but from what I have seen so far, you have the right end of the stick in terms of how you view things and how it'll go for you.

 

Attitude is everything, and will eventually dictate how you get on or don't get on with a boat.

 

I think you will do fine, and that the cut will, in time, become that much richer for your presence on it- wide beam, narrow boat, pumpout, cassette, whatever.

 

But seriously, narrow boat and cassette is the way to go.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Starcoaster

[Ange]

I always love your story Starry - I'm loving that it's all worked out for you

 

I know my lowest point after we bought Iona was when we discovered that the stainless steel water tank had a leak that filled the bottom of the boat - we found it out just before we left her for the first time and found the bottom of the boat was full of all the water that we'd been happily filling the water tank with, and which took hours of back breaking work to empty with a jug in a very confined area.

 

There was no way of finding where the leak in the stainless steel tank came from, so Dave got under the front deck with an angle grinder and cut it out, then commissioned a plastic water tank to replace it.

 

In the meantime we moved aboard, cruising from below Milton Keynes to Lancashire. We had two aquarolls from our caravanning days and used them to ferry water from the nearest water point to the boat on a daily basis for about three months.

 

When the plastic water tank was fitted there was still a number of electrical stuff that had been buggered by the water, which most importantly meant we didn't have an operational shower for about a year due to a combination of lack of funds and expertise.

 

Thankfully the boat is equipped with a pump out loo so we only had to worry about that waste every couple of months.

 

[boathunter]

Starcoaster, you're a star - you're attitude is spot on - chuck yourself at it and deal with it. What a brilliant story.

 

I'm willing to bet you're a whole lot happier with your life aboard for having gone through all that than you would have been if you'd turned up, neatly stowed your stuff in dry cupboards and found everything watertight and functioning. For sure it sounds like you went through hell but what doesn't kill you makes you stronger?

 

In a way if it all goes smoothly, I'm just going to feel unsettled and slightly fraudulant if you see what I mean. I already do to an extent just because I have a mooring! I'm regretting that a little, it might have been more fun to have circumstances twist my arm into cruising, but I'm too sissy to reject a fantastic cheap mooring. I am doing my homework, but only because my money is tied up in my house - if it weren't there have been 2 boats I'd have bought then and there. There's still going to be a whole heap of surprises and calamities to overcome - I hope so otherwise I'm going to be bored. The one thing I do have on my side is being able to chuckle at my folly and not have to rush to sort things out. I won't have to crack on at the weekends so I can go to work on Monday. I've worked for myself for 25 years, I haven't set the alarm clock in all that time and indeed don't have one or a watch, though there is a clock in the car I think. Things take as long as they take, no point in trying to measure it.

 

I'm guessing you're a generation younger than I am though! When I was younger I'd have behaved as you did. Jump in and deal with it is a thrill not a worry. I'll admit my level of roughing it isn't what it was, but it's basic life I'm looking for. I want to have to do all the day to day stuff rather than sweat doing something I don't like in order to pay someone else to do it for me as we're forced to do living in a house. I'm not materialistic, but I like to be cosy and comfortable and feel happier if I have to work for that rather than set a timer and come into a warm house.

 

Hiring's not for me. Waste of money like renting a house. Must be my dad's Scottish blood! £1000? That's my first year's mooring!

[Athy]

Starry, your (appropriately) meteoric rise from tremulous tyro to contented boater and waterways media star, all in under a year, has been a heartening story and will I'm sure give other potential boat owners, such as Mr. Hunter, great encouragement. What further adventures lie ahead in Year Two? I'm sure you'll keep us informed.

A greeno for the Euphemism Of The Week, "Anal hygiene violation".

[cl@rkey]

I was sitting on the floor by my cold stove drinking wine from a bottle that I'd had to smash the neck off to get into, crying my eyes out.

Wow, that image is going to stay with me! Thanks for sharing something so personal.

[Starcoaster]

Yes, I paint quite the picture of the stylish, well rounded lady who deals with every minor difficulty with grace and elegance, don't I!

[carlt]

Talk me out of a widebeam please

 

 

 

Don't buy a widebeam.

 

 

 

NEXT!!!

[boathunter]

Don't buy a widebeam.

 

 

 

NEXT!!!

OK

[Biggles]

Don't buy a widebeam.

 

 

 

NEXT!!!

 

Do buy a widebeam.

 

NEXT!!!

 

Oh! And DO make sure it has a pump out toilet and a bow thruster.

[simon&jan]

Yes ,do buy a widebeam

[boathunter]

Read ze thread, I cannot WB unless I limit my cruising to a few miles so the choice is made by circumstances without the need to think too hard. Not to worry, it was just a passing fancy...