Gas installation

[lewisericeric]

Hi Guys

 

Just wondering, I need to get a gas pipe installed to my hob on the boat (still using camping stoves at the minute)

 

How much am I roughly looking at for this, where do I get gas bottles from and do I need a specialist boat fitter who is gas certified to fit it?

 

Ta

[the grinch]

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/registersearch/FindBusiness.aspx?type=byname&returnurl=..%2fDefault.aspx&returnname=Menu+Page

 

gas type = lpg

area of work = boats

 

take your pick!

[bag 'o' bones]

Hi Guys

 

Just wondering, I need to get a gas pipe installed to my hob on the boat (still using camping stoves at the minute)

 

How much am I roughly looking at for this, where do I get gas bottles from and do I need a specialist boat fitter who is gas certified to fit it?

 

Ta

Fitting a gas pipe in your boat is resonably straight forward for a competant DIYer just be sure to follow the BBS recommendations to the letter. There is no legal requirement for it to be installed by a professional.

 

You can get gas bottles from:

 

Any gas supplier (expensive)

Ebay

Try your local scrap yard. There always being left in vans (this where we got hold of one)

The local skip - although elf and safety usually gets in the way.

From experience even if you obtain larger bottle for free (must be of the same supplier), you can still exchange it for a bottle of the right size. The same goes for exchanging butane for propane.

Keep a look out for bottles that have been discarded.

Calor seems to be the most commonly stocked supplier.

[blackrose]

If you ask your local fuel boat where you can get a couple of gas bottles, and he/she is aware that you will become a regular customer, they might sell you a couple of full bottles and only charge you for the gas and not the bottles. My supplier gave me 3 bottles.

[Dominic M]

If you ask your local fuel boat where you can get a couple of gas bottles, and he/she is aware that you will become a regular customer, they might sell you a couple of full bottles and only charge you for the gas and not the bottles. My supplier gave me 3 bottles.

I'm not sure how they do that. I flog Calor, and I must match each delivery bottle for bottle with empties (don't have to be the same size or colour, but must be Calor), or with a completed form that Calor supply showing that I took a £25.99 deposit if the buyer didn't have an empty to exchange. Otherwise I get charged £25.99 for each missing bottle.

[Phoenix_V]

I'm not sure how they do that. I flog Calor, and I must match each delivery bottle for bottle with empties (don't have to be the same size or colour, but must be Calor), or with a completed form that Calor supply showing that I took a £25.99 deposit if the buyer didn't have an empty to exchange. Otherwise I get charged £25.99 for each missing bottle.

Flogas are a bit more flexible

[alan_fincher]

Flogas are a bit more flexible

Yes, unlike Calor, I have in the past been supplied a cylinder to start using Flogas at zero cost beyond the normal refill charge. (Not for boat use, as it happened).

 

It wasn't a very good deal for them, as I have never once exchanged that cylinder, so they have only sold me one lot of gas, but had to stand the cost of a cylinder!

[ChrisPy]

I'm not sure how they do that. I flog Calor, and I must match each delivery bottle for bottle with empties (don't have to be the same size or colour, but must be Calor), or with a completed form that Calor supply showing that I took a £25.99 deposit if the buyer didn't have an empty to exchange. Otherwise I get charged £25.99 for each missing bottle.

Some suppliers inherit discarded bottles, for example in the boatyard at my local marina.

[dor]

Just about every canalside gas supplier uses Calor. You must have a calor cylinder to exchange. You can't take in a Say Flogas and exchange it for a Calor.

[Phoenix_V]

Just about every canalside gas supplier uses Calor. You must have a calor cylinder to exchange. You can't take in a Say Flogas and exchange it for a Calor.

true but most garages sell flogas and if you join a scheme such as the RBOA they will deliver to you

[lewisericeric]

Thanks for your advice guys. Just been looking at Flogas who offer a 19KG cylinder for £30 but take a "non return fee" of £23.99 too. DOes that sound about right?

 

Also, where will my gas be kept? Can the bottle just be kept on the front deck in the corner or does it *need* to be in some sort of locker? Can it be in the storage compartment on the front of the deck (currently keep my coal there )

[dor]

Also, where will my gas be kept? Can the bottle just be kept on the front deck in the corner

NO! Most definitely no.

 

Read up on the BSS regs regarding gas lockers, gas pipes, passing pipes through bulkheads etc. etc.

 

There are very specific requirements for gas on boats. Don't rely on a domestic gas fitter for advice as boat lpg installation has lots of special requiremnts.

[Speedwheel]

Boat Safety Scheme Part 7. Clicky.

[alan_fincher]

Just been looking at Flogas who offer a 19KG cylinder for £30 but take a "non return fee" of £23.99 too. DOes that sound about right?

As it has to be kept in a properly constructed locker, where it can only vent overboard, it is fairly unlikely, unless your boat is an unusual design, that you will able to be able to accommodate a 19KG cylinder.

 

The "normal" 13KG (Propane) / 15 KG (Butane) Calor cylinder is the largest that most narrow boat bow lockers can fit, and some can't manage that, and you have to use smaller cylinders, (where the gas costs far more per kilo).

 

Note that usually Flogas put less gas in the same sized cylinder as Calor (I think 11kG instead of 13KG for Propane, and 13KG instead of 15KG for Butane), so whilst their refill prices may be cheaper than Calor, if you work out a "per kilo" price, they are not as different as you might first imagine.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks for your advice guys. Just been looking at Flogas ...

 

 

One other thing to consider is getting refills.

If you are cruising and the gas runs out you will need to find another flogas supplier. From my (limited) experience the only brand that is consistently available is "Calor"

 

Calor does tend to be a few pennies more than some of the 'newcomers' in the market - but what's it worth for the security of being able to get a refill anywhere ?

[lewisericeric]

Thanks for the link - Ive been looking at the BSS chapters - it's ridiculous how many bloody pages there are just to have my bleedin hob and oven installed. Why is nothing *SIMPLE* in this day and age?!!

 

I dont have a clue now who I'm supposed to get in with dor stating not to get a domestic gas fitter - I'm not even near any boat fitters or anything for advice at the moment and they're not going to come out to where I am moored at the moment!

 

Dont understand why it cannot go in the front storage locker where my coal is at the moment) as there is even an LPG sticker on there and it is vented which I thought would have been good so any leaking gas can escape, but looking at the regs, it looks as though the locker has to be gas tight too?

 

Am I missing something? Is it not more dangerous to be having the gas building up in a gas tight locker rather than having it vented to allow the gas to disperse?

[alan_fincher]

If a gas fitter cocks up on gas in a house, or a householder is sufficiently incautious, there is a reasonable chance still that the gas may find its way outside, or get dispersed with no serious consequences.

 

In a boat, because it is denser than air, so heads downwards, there is every prospect of filling your bilges with an explosive mix, that could have serious consequences to those on board, and perhaps even those not on board. There is no way for LPG to drain out of the bottom of a boat if it ends up there.

 

There are very good reasons why the installation of gas on boats is now taken very seriously, although it is perfectly safe if installed, maintained, and operated correctly.

 

The advice to only use a GasSafe registered engineer if they have the correct certifications for LPG and boats is entirely correct. A domestic gas fitter is not qualified to do LPG work on boats, and you would use one at your risk.

[Alan de Enfield]

I would have thought that any "GasSafe" engineer worthy of being called a "GasSafe" engineer who did not have a 'ticket' for Boat LPG systems would have refused to do the job - Liability insurance would no doubt be invalid.

 

I have a (GasSafe)friend that I asked to help put in a system into a cruiser - he said he would help put it in but it would need to be certified by someone with a "boat LPG ticket"

[David Mack]

I dont have a clue now who I'm supposed to get in with dor stating not to get a domestic gas fitter - I'm not even near any boat fitters or anything for advice at the moment and they're not going to come out to where I am moored at the moment!

 

Was covered here only yesterday!

 

David

[WotEver]

I dont have a clue now who I'm supposed to get in...

Post #2. Your first reply.

 

Tony

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Thanks for the link - Ive been looking at the BSS chapters - it's ridiculous how many bloody pages there are just to have my bleedin hob and oven installed. Why is nothing *SIMPLE* in this day and age?!!

 

Ah, gas hob!

That reminds me of a DIY gas installation in London - a real gash job using rubbish components. This is from the News Shopper local paper at the time

 

Gas explosion could have been prevented

A CARPENTER who worked on his boat in a 24-year "labour of love" died after a gas explosion on board, an inquest heard.

 

Tony Wood, 65, of Aldeburgh Street, Greenwich, suffered 50 per cent burns and a fractured skull on April 17 this year, dying eight days later at the Frenchay Hospital, Bristol.

 

A fire investigation revealed gas piping on the 40ft sailing boat, the MV Allwood, which was docked at Baltic Quay Marina, in Rotherhithe, had

become disconnected, Southwark Coroner's Court heard.

 

A statement from a friend of Mr Wood, Sarah Core, said she was cooking a meal on his boat when she spotted the gas flame starting to roll over the

edges of the hob and jumped into the water.

 

Dominic Freeman, who was on a nearby boat, told the court: "I heard a loud blast. There were pieces of debris flying everywhere and I could hear a

female screaming."

Paramedics took Miss Core to hospital...'

 

He had a fractured skull because he was blown clear out of the boat and the cabin was made from lovely solid mahogany, the pictures of the cracks in the wood were astounding.

 

If you want to know more about Ms Core's experience - I found her story here on CNN

 

Similarly on a theme of incorrectly installed gas cookers, some folks hereabouts may remember this incident as written up in the Northwich Guardian.

 

The force of this explosion lifted the whole cabin which when it fell back down, trapped the unfortunate victim.

 

There will be always be a range of views as to whether it is a simple or complicated matter having a gas hob installed correctly, however the key point is that it is vital that your gas appliances are installed competently.

 

Dont understand why it cannot go in the front storage locker where my coal is at the moment) as there is even an LPG sticker on there and it is vented which I thought would have been good so any leaking gas can escape, but looking at the regs, it looks as though the locker has to be gas tight too?

 

Am I missing something? Is it not more dangerous to be having the gas building up in a gas tight locker rather than having it vented to allow the gas to disperse?

 

I think if you can brew up a nice big mug of tea and take a moment to sit down and read Chapter 7 on the BSS gas requirements once again, you will see that what you need a gas locker that is gas tight all the way up to the top of the cylinder and regulator... ... apart from the vent or drain hole in the bottom to let any leaked gas escape. Furthermore you will see how you are supposed to store your camping stove, when not in use, and its butane cannisters in there too.

 

We have also published some advice about using camping stoves on boats, naturally I recommend you have a read of that as well. There's a chance it could prevent a trip to A&E.

 

Just in case you missed the signs to read the good advice in Post #2, you should find it helpful to go to www.gassaferegister.co.uk and use the site's search facility for LPG and boats and the post code location of your boat.

 

Kind regards

Rob

Edited October 27, 2011 by Rob@BSSOffice

[J R ALSOP]

If I was you I would sell the boat and by a tent.

[ditchcrawler]

If I was you I would sell the boat and by a tent.

Even that is not safe and its not the only one see here and yet another

[Guest]

NO! Most definitely no.

 

Read up on the BSS regs regarding gas lockers, gas pipes, passing pipes through bulkheads etc. etc.

 

There are very specific requirements for gas on boats. Don't rely on a domestic gas fitter for advice as boat lpg installation has lots of special requiremnts.

Indeed. A boat we once had surveyed had all soldered joints on the gas pipes. The owner of the boat was livid when the surveyor condemned the installation, probably not helped by the fact that we knocked the boat back.

[bizzard]

Indeed. A boat we once had surveyed had all soldered joints on the gas pipes. The owner of the boat was livid when the surveyor condemned the installation, probably not helped by the fact that we knocked the boat back.

Someone here had his brother a plumber install all his main gas pipes in 15mm and Yorkshire fittings.A big head and wouldn't believe me when i warned him of what could happen. ''It failed the BSS exam''.