How do you use the Bollards?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I'm not sure that about that animation. Is the process to pull a bight under the standing line and drop it over the bollard, draw tight and then do it again the other way?

 

Richard

 

Having an "anorak" interest in knots, I attempted to do some research into this hitch a while ago. Unfortunately, it is not one of the almost 4000 knots, bends or hitches in the knotting "bible" - The Ashley Book of Knots - and is poorly documented elsewhere.

 

The two bends shown on this thread are slightly different in that the animated knot shows a round turn at the start whereas the earlier picture shows a half turn.

 

Whilst both knots are correct, the animated knot is rather confusing as it shows hitch being made with the "free" end of the rope. I would suggest that this is probably a feature of the software used! This hitch is usually made as suggested above by dropping a loop (a half turn) or two loops (a round turn) over the bollard pulling a bight under the standing part and dropping it back over the bollard as many times as required.

 

As a clove hitch can be tied in under a second by just dropping a couple of loops over a bollard it is by far the quicker knot to tie.

 

Personally, I would not use either of these hitches on a bollard

Edited December 21, 2008 by Allan(nb Albert)

[Chris Pink]

So that's some support for the middle one from single handed boaters.

 

Anyone found a use for the other two ?

 

I would certainly use a bollard at the front of a wide lock going uphill singlehanded, running a bow line back to it round once and then to me at the paddles. Stops the front end flying across the lock and hitting the wall the other side or crashing into the cill / top gates. I find if i do this i don't need a stern line.

 

if with crew in a wide lock with one boat i would also use it, in this case back to the t-stud with me stood on the foredeck. Paddles can go up as quick as possible then without bouncing the boat around.

 

Most locks on the Kennet and Avon have one bollard about 10' back from the top gates and is particularly of use in river locks with gate paddles.

[RLWP]

(snip) You never let go of the end of the line or tuck it under anything, as the photo I posted tries to indicate.(snip)

 

A feature of any good mooring hitch that. because it means you never let go of the boat!

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

The boatman's hitch is incredibly fast to do, and usually you only need to put on about two "loops" for tying up temporarily, (anything more than three is really never necessary, even if mooring for much longer).

 

One of it's plus, (or minus), points, depending on viewpoint. is that if it's done round a straight stake, you can literally pull the stake out, and it just falls back into a nice straight piece of rope, with no tangles. Similarly it can just be lifted over the top of a straight bollard, (but not one that's capped or gets wider towards the top).

 

It's probably best not used if you are mooring with straight stakes, (no loops on top), into a soft bank, and you want to be sure of getting the stake back if it's pulled out. Otherwise I don't think I ever use anything else.

 

The clove hitch IMHO is a horrible knot - it jams solid when you don't want it to, but slips through when you do.

 

I would certainly use a bollard at the front of a wide lock going uphill singlehanded, running a bow line back to it round once and then to me at the paddles. Stops the front end flying across the lock and hitting the wall the other side or crashing into the cill / top gates. I find if i do this i don't need a stern line.

 

if with crew in a wide lock with one boat i would also use it, in this case back to the t-stud with me stood on the foredeck. Paddles can go up as quick as possible then without bouncing the boat around.

 

Most locks on the Kennet and Avon have one bollard about 10' back from the top gates and is particularly of use in river locks with gate paddles.

Yes, I don't have a problem with bollards in broad locks, except that on the Grand Union (at least) there seems to be no rhyme or reason to where placed. You can more or less guarantee that if you find a useful one at one lock, the next one will not have one within 10 feet of that position!

 

It's these ones at narrow locks that I despair about - both whether they would be useful if they were proper bollards, but also the fact they have chosen something that a rope won't run around properly, and which will now cost a bomb to modify.

[David Schweizer]

Now that is one thing that the K&A does have right - peculiar!

Except for those where they have got it wrong John - Sheepwash for example.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Absolutely . They are absolute nonsense ,.

Phil

 

On this thread alone, three people find them very useful. All the references I have seen to centre bollards since the new wave of them started to be installed have been negative, sometimes rabidly so, with no attempt at seeing another point of view or method of working. I think there is an element of BW bashing in this - they can do no right. Well, in this case I welcome the greater availability of centre bollards (They were already there on some locks).

And I don't care what shape they are, either (ducks quickly behind the wall to avoid the flak).

 

Mac

[Allan(nb Albert)]

On this thread alone, three people find them very useful. All the references I have seen to centre bollards since the new wave of them started to be installed have been negative, sometimes rabidly so, with no attempt at seeing another point of view or method of working. I think there is an element of BW bashing in this - they can do no right. Well, in this case I welcome the greater availability of centre bollards (They were already there on some locks).

And I don't care what shape they are, either (ducks quickly behind the wall to avoid the flak).

 

Mac

 

.... but BW did not introduce bollards on the grounds that some people would find them useful. They claim to have introduced them based on a risk assessment. I would suggest that the question is not do some people find these bollards useful (I do myself marginally) but has safety at locks been improved by installation.

 

Having seen a hire boat hung up in a narrow lock on a newly installed centre bollard (simply because someone had placed a rope round a bollard - they had not even tied it!) I am perhaps biased.

 

As someone said "If those with 40 years experience don't trip over them and those with 40 minutes experience don't use them I see no reason why the cost of removing them could not be put to better use"

[Theo]

Having an "anorak" interest in knots, I attempted to do some research into this hitch a while ago. Unfortunately, it is not one of the almost 4000 knots, bends or hitches in the knotting "bible" - The Ashley Book of Knots - and is poorly documented elsewhere.

 

The two bends shown on this thread are slightly different in that the animated knot shows a round turn at the start whereas the earlier picture shows a half turn.

 

Whilst both knots are correct, the animated knot is rather confusing as it shows hitch being made with the "free" end of the rope. I would suggest that this is probably a feature of the software used! This hitch is usually made as suggested above by dropping a loop (a half turn) or two loops (a round turn) over the bollard pulling a bight under the standing part and dropping it back over the bollard as many times as required.

 

As a clove hitch can be tied in under a second by just dropping a couple of loops over a bollard it is by far the quicker knot to tie.

 

Personally, I would not use either of these hitches on a bollard

 

Don't be shy. Tell us what you would use.

 

Nick

[Tam & Di]

Don't be shy. Tell us what you would use.

 

Nick

 

Quite so - I'd like to know as well. I suppose I would not use that hitch on a bollard to moor overnight as it is too easy for some lout to let it go. In fact though my line would be tied on the boat - I would have an eye on the bollard, possibly held tight with a cable tie if it were a dodgy area and assuming no-one else is on that bollard who would be trapped by my line. But what knot do you see as preferable? Being basically lazy by nature I'm always looking for the minimum of effort for the maximum of return, and the boatman's hitch certainly gives that.

[Naughty Cal]

As the locks where we are are wider locks we use the front and rear bollards to stop the boat slewing across the lock when filling or emptying. Not such an easy task with the canopy up and usually means the person working the paddles watching the ropes as well, as the person in the boat is pretty much a spectator at this point and purely there to manouvre the boat in or out of the lock. Works for us although i usually end up doing all the donkey work.

[Barry]

I don't know if it is possible to slow the animation down on that site, but at the speed I was viewing it it looked very much as if the person tying it put a half hitch into it at the end. There was certainly something a bit odd there. Another of the advantages of that hitch is it can be made as easily with a line 100' long as 15' long. You never let go of the end of the line or tuck it under anything, as the photo I posted tries to indicate.

 

If a half hitch is introduced at the end that would rather negate the simplicity of the hitch. It would introduce a possibility of it jamming and is quite unnecessary.

 

I don't think the animation shows a half hitch to finish off with - rather it is just an extra half turn taken round the bollard and the running end is draped over the standing part - so there is nothing to jam

[carlt]

Never use them, wife does as a handy seat while waiting for the lock to fill

To anyone who finds them useful, as a seat, I would offer the warning that my dog and, I would suspect, any other dog with a full set of crown jewels, has found a use for them.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Quite so - I'd like to know as well. I suppose I would not use that hitch on a bollard to moor overnight as it is too easy for some lout to let it go. In fact though my line would be tied on the boat - I would have an eye on the bollard, possibly held tight with a cable tie if it were a dodgy area and assuming no-one else is on that bollard who would be trapped by my line. But what knot do you see as preferable? Being basically lazy by nature I'm always looking for the minimum of effort for the maximum of return, and the boatman's hitch certainly gives that.

 

Almost 2 months late - sorry. I think I said "Personally, I would not use either of these hitches on a bollard" and I'm being asked what I use.

 

The general use of bollards on BW waters is for temporary mooring (rings for more than temporary!) so I tend to use a temporary hitch.

 

At a lock landing I would simply wind the centre rope round the bollard a few times allowing for friction to hold it in place. This may not work with all boats.

 

In locks, I tend not to use bollards even if single handing. I simply hold the boat on the centre rope (I'm a big strong boy!). Well actually I hold the boat using the centre rope wrapped round the windlass so I don't get friction burns on my hands. Again, this might not work if you are 8 stone!

 

For mooring overnight on a bollard, I tend to take a round turn around the bollard and bring the rope back on board to the dolly or T-stud.

 

If I suspect that I might be cast adrift by someone lifting the rope off the bollard then I would replace the round turn with a hitch of some description (I often use a cow hitch) to make it more difficult.

 

I should perhaps add that a clove hitch (if you can tie one) is a reasonable knot to use in such circumstances as it tends to jam making it more difficult to lift off.

[tidal]

Having an "anorak" interest in knots, I attempted to do some research into this hitch a while ago. Unfortunately, it is not one of the almost 4000 knots, bends or hitches in the knotting "bible" - The Ashley Book of Knots - and is poorly documented elsewhere.

(snip)

 

Being of a like mind where knots are concerned, I originally found this hitch in the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (1920s version) where it was recommended for use on samson posts for towing purposes.

 

Being from a salt water environment I have used this hitch to secure anchor warps to samson posts for maybe 35yrs as it doesn't jam and can be released whatever load is on it, something a clove hitch cannot do.

 

However for bollards I tend to drop a bowline over them, probably because I have always had crew to work the lines from the boat

I may have to re-think that strategy

[Tam & Di]

However for bollards I tend to drop a bowline over them, probably because I have always had crew to work the lines from the boat

I may have to re-think that strategy

 

 

No, I think you are quite right - even better is to have a larger eye in the line so you can throw it onto a bollard from the boat. Probably not generally much point in this on canals as someone is generally off the boat to get the lock, but quite useful in river locks, and almost essential on the continent.

[Strads]

An interesting discusion,

 

we have developed a technique ( not sure its an approved one) of arriving slowly (honest) and alightly with the centre rope and using (where available) the centre bollard as a friction brake - more akin to to a mountaineering techniqe of belaying - (as well as using reverse etc,

 

when then use it to ensure we dont creep forward or backwards - saving pinging the front fender ( yes we did it twice early one hence why we tried this) and ditto drifting back onto the cill at the rear (yes done that once - slightly)..

 

as with a 70ft the ability to drift and hold her varies in the different locks as the paddles are opened,, also in double locks saves her banging about.. and drifting accross to the opposite side!

Once stablised one of then flicks the rope off and hopes back on board whilst the other opens/closes the paddles/gates on exiting..

 

Clove hitches are excellent at securely tieing onto stakes/rings, and unless frozen can be undone relatively easily by pushing both ends in,

it is one of the key knotts in mountaineering/climbing, but the boaters hitche of wrapping the rope back accrose its self is most suitable for rings bollards as it can be un-wrapped when under tension/frozen etc...

[Rick-n-Jo]

An interesting discusion,

 

we have developed a technique ( not sure its an approved one) of arriving slowly (honest) and alightly with the centre rope and using (where available) the centre bollard as a friction brake - more akin to to a mountaineering techniqe of belaying - (as well as using reverse etc,

 

Ah, the time honoured technique of strapping, used since the year dot, how else could they stop a horse boat or butty, or an unpowered sailing craft for that matter. It could be done with a line off the fore end t stud or one off the stern. An embellishment of the trick is to use the strapping post at the top of the mitre post on the top gate. Done right this not only stops the boat, but starts the gate closing as well (the gate fully closing as a bottom paddle is drawn) The goal of efficient working is for the boat, as nearly as possible, to be always moving, either forwards or vertically, while expending the minimum of effort in rushing about.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Rick-n-Jo

[Tam & Di]

Ah, the time honoured technique of strapping,................ The goal of efficient working is for the boat, as nearly as possible, to be always moving, either forwards or vertically, while expending the minimum of effort in rushing about.

 

One good fun thing we did a while back was we went up the river Main in Germany on a friend's 80m x 1250 ton loaded freight barge. The locks are 350m long, and he came in fairly slowly. As soon as he cleared the bottom gates he switched his motor off (you need a thirsty engine to move something that size) and continued drifting slowly up the lock. The flow of water as the lock filled firstly pushed him slightly backwards, and then as it hit the bottom gates and flowed back it carried him forward again. He had it so sussed that just as he reached the top gates they were opening, and he restarted the motor and we continued on our merry way.

 

Obviously if there were other barges in the lock he would use the usual method - put the eye of his line on a lockside bollard, take 3 or 4 turns around one just aft of centre on his vessel and finish it with a half hitch, then go back into head gear to drive against the pressure of water filling the lock.

[Neil TNC]

One good fun thing we did a while back was we went up the river Main in Germany on a friend's 80m x 1250 ton loaded freight barge. The locks are 350m long, and he came in fairly slowly. As soon as he cleared the bottom gates he switched his motor off (you need a thirsty engine to move something that size) and continued drifting slowly up the lock. The flow of water as the lock filled firstly pushed him slightly backwards, and then as it hit the bottom gates and flowed back it carried him forward again. He had it so sussed that just as he reached the top gates they were opening, and he restarted the motor and we continued on our merry way.

 

Obviously if there were other barges in the lock he would use the usual method - put the eye of his line on a lockside bollard, take 3 or 4 turns around one just aft of centre on his vessel and finish it with a half hitch, then go back into head gear to drive against the pressure of water filling the lock.

 

There was a video about a while back showing how to get an unloaded peniche with the masters car craned onto a prone postion on the bow, under a low bridge. The Captain stopped a distance before the bridge, thought about it for a while, then went full steam ahead. Just before the bridge was about to remove his car, the captain gave a blast of full astern, the bow came down and the barge slid under the bridge, with the car missing the bridge deck by centimetres.

[Keeping Up]

In Holland we once watched in awe as a Barge passed through a smallish lifted bridge. The wife and 2 kids hopped off from the bow, while the steerer hoisted the family Mercedes off the roof and swung it across on to the road where the family unhooked the sling and got in the car to drive away. The barge hardly slowed down for the whole process.

 

It would have been even more interesting if anything had gone wrong!

[Neil TNC]

In Holland we once watched in awe as a Barge passed through a smallish lifted bridge. The wife and 2 kids hopped off from the bow, while the steerer hoisted the family Mercedes off the roof and swung it across on to the road where the family unhooked the sling and got in the car to drive away. The barge hardly slowed down for the whole process.

 

It would have been even more interesting if anything had gone wrong!

 

My brief boating trip to Friesland, showed us up over here as a bunch of Wallys. The Dutch inland boaters, with all shapes and sizes of craft, "mix-it" with monster barges all the time and make it look effortless. The majority of Dutch boaters and waterways staff are patient and helpful, but will soon let you know if they disapprove of your inexperience!

 

Getting back on topic and echoing Tam's (obviously) wise words. Not only do you have to know how to work the bow rope in large locks, it is also rather essential to to be rather quick (for quick read effortless)about it, as often you will be coming into a lock, where the barge in front is already roped up and in gear. It is also essential to have a VERY good repartee with your Captain, as you have to get the bow rope off, just as you pull away, to stop the wash from any large craft pulling out in front blowing your craft all over the place.

Trust me, this is a bl00dy site more difficult in a narrowboat, having shared some MSC locks with large commercial craft, whilst in Earnest.