New to canals... a couple of questions

[Lypiatt]

I am an experienced boater (sailing to Channel Islands, that sort of thing) but new to canals.

 

I hired on the Grand Union a few weeks ago and enjoyed it (Foxton Locks etc).

 

I naively expected to be passing pubs / villages every few hours, but found it was very pretty, but also very quiet, so had under provisioned for eating on the boat. The experience wasn't bad at all, just not what I'd expected.

 

I'd like to do some more hiring to get more experience. Are there other canals where I would be passing pubs and villages more often?

(PS - I live in Cheltenham)

 

Also, on the theme of hiring, is there a pecking order of hire firms, which are the high end and which are not?

As part of feeling things out for the future I'd like to hire a modern boat preferably with bow thruster but I suspect that's not something hire companies use 🙂

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

Hi it deepens on the canal The Trent and Mersey between Shardlow upwards to Middlewich probably fits that bill of village/pubs/ towns more. However it’s always good to have a couple of nights worth of planned food as even if found many pub moorings are quite busy. Most canals will have pubs and villages though, the Shropshire Union does and the Worcester and Birmingham in parts. Rivers less so, but there still are nice places on most rivers for villages and pubs. 
 

Most boats are similar as they follow the pattern of fitting people in with bunk beds etc. A couple of the smaller hire firms have more upmarket boats. This includes Armada, Cafwen cruises (near to you in Droitwich) Napton hire boats (a larger firm)  and one that @IanD
And Ditchcrawler reminded me, Aqua. 
 

Im not sure if any have bow thrusters. It’s not essential at all, and rarely if ever needed if your navigation skills are good. Develop your skills as you are “only a hire boater” but truth is many owners are worse than many hire boaters at navigating. 
 

You are probably better off choosing the canal first then the hire boat. I think Cafwen boats get booked fast as one is all electric. 
 

Coincidentally I had a friend live in Lypiatt Court Cheltenham years ago.

Edited July 11 by Stroudwater1

[ditchcrawler]

These are a cut above most Narrowboat Hire - Luxury Narrowboat Hire - Aqua Narrow Boats  I met a boater today steering in and out of locks with a bow

thruster

[LadyG]

59 minutes ago, Lypiatt said:

I am an experienced boater (sailing to Channel Islands, that sort of thing) but new to canals.

 

I hired on the Grand Union a few weeks ago and enjoyed it (Foxton Locks etc).

 

I naively expected to be passing pubs / villages every few hours, but found it was very pretty, but also very quiet, so had under provisioned for eating on the boat. The experience wasn't bad at all, just not what I'd expected.

 

I'd like to do some more hiring to get more experience. Are there other canals where I would be passing pubs and villages more often?

(PS - I live in Cheltenham)

 

Also, on the theme of hiring, is there a pecking order of hire firms, which are the high end and which are not?

As part of feeling things out for the future I'd like to hire a modern boat preferably with bow thruster but I suspect that's not something hire companies use 🙂

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bow Thruster, lol, not if you can sail! Just slow down, don't expect the astern throttle to react quickly.

I see folks charging full steam ahead in to locks, and throwing the boat in to reverse as soon as they arrive at lock gates, I  don't see many experienced boaters doing this, they own their boats!

Hire boats round here, Shire Crusers mostly are about 50 or 52 ft, they don't have bow thrusters and many are crewed by novices. They are not allowed to share locks, (wide canals), and generally have enough crew to manage.

There are not that many canalside pubs round here, so they must plan cruising accordingly,

I singlehand, and for that reason am pretty cautious, but very rarely would I need a bowthruster, I can usually get a 57ft boat in to a 58ft gap. Why do you think you need a bowthruster..?

 

Edited July 11 by LadyG

[IanD]

33 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

These are a cut above most Narrowboat Hire - Luxury Narrowboat Hire - Aqua Narrow Boats  I met a boater today steering in and out of locks with a bow

thruster

We've hired from Aqua (once) and they're probably the nicest boat we've had over the years -- but they only have one location (Barton Turns marina on the Trent and Mersey) which does restrict where you can go somewhat, that stretch of the T&M runs a long way right next to a main road.

 

Anglo-Welsh also have some nice boats (their more expensive ranges), so do Napton Narrowboats, both have multiple hire base locations.

 

Bear Boating on the L&L have nice boutique boats, but we had a bad experience with them so I wouldn't personally recommend them. The wideboat we hired from them had a bow thruster (and wheel steering!), it's the only hire boat I've ever seen with one.

 

Shire Cruisers are good decent boats rather than "luxury" ones (though some are getting on a bit) and great if you like canals Up North (lots of locks!), we've hired from them multiple times. I did hear the business is up for sale though... 😞 

Edited July 11 by IanD

[LadyG]

35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

These are a cut above most Narrowboat Hire - Luxury Narrowboat Hire - Aqua Narrow Boats  I met a boater today steering in and out of locks with a bow

thruster

Yes, horrible screeching noise , probably then feels the need needs to moor up right in front of me and run the engine for two hours to recharge the batteries.

Edited July 11 by LadyG

[RS2021]

The only hire company which you would call upmarket and fits bow thrusters is Beacon Park Boats on the Mon and Brec. Bow thrusters are generally not fitted to hire craft on the canals and can cause damage to the canal, especially when used near the bank on shallow canals. 

 

The Mon and Brec would also fit the bill for villages and pubs for the top half  but the bottom half has more remote sections.

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

 

Shire Cruisers are good decent boats (though some are getting on a bit) and great if you like canals Up North (lots of locks!), we've hired from them multiple times. I did hear the business is up for sale though... 😞 

Yes, an opportunity for an entrepreneur,  the boats are here are at Sowerby Bridge, and look really smart, sadly, many are currently moored up rather than cruising the area.

[David Mack]

Thirty or forty years ago you would have found many more pubs canalside or a short walk away - although back then few would have been able to provide an evening meal. But pubs have been having a hard time for years now, and many have closed, so it's not surprising to find the same on the cut. Canal guidebooks will show where there were pubs when the guide was written, but not all of those have survived, and those that remain may be very different in terms of beers available, food offered, opening times etc. compared with what the book says. Best to do research before the trip and plan your overnight stops accordingly. And as has been suggested, have some food on board for those days when you don't reach the planned destination, or they have stopped serving food early etc. Or consider stopping for your main meal at lunchtime, and perhaps having a lighter meal on board in the evening.

Ans as an alternative, many towns and villages have takeaway food establisments.

 

[MtB]

36 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Thirty or forty years ago you would have found many more pubs canalside or a short walk away - although back then few would have been able to provide an evening meal. But pubs have been having a hard time for years now, and many have closed, so it's not surprising to find the same on the cut. Canal guidebooks will show where there were pubs when the guide was written, but not all of those have survived, and those that remain may be very different in terms of beers available, food offered, opening times etc. compared with what the book says. Best to do research before the trip and plan your overnight stops accordingly. And as has been suggested, have some food on board for those days when you don't reach the planned destination, or they have stopped serving food early etc. Or consider stopping for your main meal at lunchtime, and perhaps having a lighter meal on board in the evening.

Ans as an alternative, many towns and villages have takeaway food establisments.

 

 

There is another effect I notice too. If I find a canalside pub to eat in, after a while I begin to think "I could have driven here from home in an hour, so why am I eating in here and not on the boat? I want to be on the boat!" 

 

[gatekrash]

Cafwin's boats have both got bowthrusters.

But I know she's fully booked for this year and already looking busy for next year, a lot of her customers are repeat bookings. Her boats are both high end, but quite reasonably priced.

 

Lots of pubs in the areas around here, either the W&B or S&W are the usual hire boat rings from Droitwich. Like a lot of owners though we eat on the boat more often than go to the pub, after a month or so on the boat I'd be an obese alcoholic if we ate out all the time. Although if we know there's a good pub (beer) close I'll drag the Mrs out... 

[Ken X]

The plan we follow is to decide where we wish to cruise, pick a hire base then spend an evening or two planning stops, locating possible eateries and local shops.

 

We find that we eat in and out on alternate nights and take enough food to achieve most of the meals. Our stocks are generally tinned or dry foods we can take home again with a locally bought meat or veggie ingredient if we chose to use them.

 

Inevitably we have a second look after mooring to check if other or better options are available. Google maps, open canal map etc are our apps of choice. Flexibility is key.

 

 

[Victor Vectis]

CAMRA's 'Whatpub' website is useful too.

[Mac of Cygnet]

14 hours ago, LadyG said:

Yes, an opportunity for an entrepreneur,  the boats are here are at Sowerby Bridge, and look really smart, sadly, many are currently moored up rather than cruising the area.

 

I moored with Shire Cruisers for 16 years.  I wondered when Nigel would be retiring -  I've known him and Susan since soon after they took over the business, and hired from them then, including a boat they kept in Hebden Bridge before the Rochdale was re-opened, and also one we took up to York (don't think they allow that now!)  An earlier comment about their boats not sharing broad locks was news to me - I shared locks in Cygnet with their boats many times.  They've had some difficult times with closures - one year they had to transport the boats to Foulridge on the L&L.  It's not going to get any better, either, with continual closures on the Rochdale and HNC.

I sold Cygnet to one of their staff, but haven't heard any more - perhaps if you are still in Sowerby Bridge you could have a look round to see if it's still there?

Cheers

Mac

[Gybe Ho]

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I met a boater today steering in and out of locks with a bow thruster

 

I see this on YouTube narrowboating vLogs, is it wrong?

 

Another ex. yachtsman here contemplating a future life on the cut, at least I know my port and starboard, "Red to Red go ahead".

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

I see this on YouTube narrowboating vLogs, is it wrong?

 

Another ex. yachtsman here contemplating a future life on the cut, at least I know my port and starboard, "Red to Red go ahead".

 

You might know the colregs but the vast majority of canal boaters do not - always work on the principle that it will be you that has to avoid the collision.

[Gybe Ho]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You might know the colregs but the vast majority of canal boaters do not - always work on the principle that it will be you that has to avoid the collision.

 

My brother asked me to join his family for 1/2 a day at the start of his first canal boat hire week, on the assumption I would be useful. I discovered that few offshore sailing skills are transferable to narrow boats, even the deck cleats are strange. I confused the hire boat company by asking where the cooling water strainer was.

 

I wish I had taken some red and green sticky insulation tape because my most useful contribution on the day was getting the new crew to recite "Red to Red go ahead" and "Green likes grass". Why don't hire boat companies paint red and green circles on the aft bulkhead to assist their customers!

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

Why don't hire boat companies paint red and green circles on the aft bulkhead to assist their customers!

 

Because :

1) Port & Starboard are not generally used - you just keep to the right (ie left to left)

2) Very few canal boats have nav lights

 

You will need to learn a whole new language, When I use 'nautical terms', or suggest 'this is how we do it' I'm told that is for 'lumpy water' it's different on the canals.

 

One huge area of contention (aka arguments) is anchoring, which, whilst it can be a daily event for lumpy water boaters and a well developed skill, it is maybe a 'once in a lifetime emergency' for river boaters but anchor size, design, deployment, and recovery skills are apparently not transferable.

Edited July 12 by Alan de Enfield

[Paul C]

Bow thrusters and their use are a contentious subject.

 

The reason bow thrusters are rarely found in a hire boat is because it costs money, it’s not necessary and the types of manoeuvres they are helpful for, aren’t normally done by hire boats.

 

These types of things are, for example, long stretches in reverse, or mooring backwards onto a marina berth. An owned boat might have a linear on-canal mooring where the water point, or pump out, is the other end of a long line of moored boats. So an extended reverse, the forwards again into the mooring, might be not too uncommon for a liveaboard. A hire boat is much more likely to be on a progressive cruise, so can avoid going backwards (at all, if it’s a cruising ring). Similarly, hire boats tend not to visit marina berths. Even then, you can go in forwards and reverse out, to make it much easier. There are weak reasons for reversing in eg mains hookup or door access that a liveaboard or marina moored boat might favour. And if the hire base is within a marina, typically the boat is collected facing out from the berth, then you drive in return forward and during the turnover the staff would turn it. If you did reverse out it doesn’t need BT and the staff doing the handover would probably do it.

 

Dint get me wrong, there’s a few instances where a BT is handy to have, and it can make the boat do things one without can’t, but there’s always a way round the issue.

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Because :

1) Port & Starboard are not generally used - you just keep to the right (ie left to left)

2) Very few canal boats have nav lights

 

You will need to learn a whole new language, When I use 'nautical terms', or suggest 'this is how we do it' I'm told that is for 'lumpy water' it's different on the canals.

 

One huge area of contention (aka arguments) is anchoring, which, whilst it can be a daily event for lumpy water boaters and a well developed skill, it is maybe a 'once in a lifetime emergency' for river boaters but anchor size, design, deployment, and recovery skills are apparently not transferable.

 

Yep, its terrifying to have engine failure on the southern Oxford and find find yourself drifting unstoppably towards the bank at 0.0001mph. Oops sorry, knots. Definitely need a 50kg sea anchor at the ready at all times, just in case.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

......engine failure on the southern Oxford and find find yourself drifting...........

 

 

 

Thanks for the update, I hadn't realised that the southern Oxford canal had been upgraded to a River with weirs and 'moving water', etc. I'll make a note on my charts.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

maybe a 'once in a lifetime emergency' for river boaters

 

Edited July 12 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Thanks for the update, I hadn't realised that the southern Oxford canal had been upgraded to a River with weirs and 'moving water', etc. I'll make a note on my charts.

 

So you don't really know the South Oxford - two river sections and two weirs, although I doubt you will see one of the weirs when cruising. One section subject to river action has the flow across the canal, but your charts should show this - Nichs and the other guides do.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

Thanks for the update, I hadn't realised that the southern Oxford canal had been upgraded to a River with weirs and 'moving water', etc. I'll make a note on my charts.

 

 

Lol, just yanking your chain really, as I know you love it and invite it with the dogmatic positions you take on so many things.

 

And you jumped straight into my trap, and Tony was 'on it' in a flash! 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

And you jumped straight into my trap,

 

Yup - should really engage brain before putting fingers into gear !

[Gybe Ho]

45 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

One huge area of contention (aka arguments) is anchoring, which, whilst it can be a daily event for lumpy water boaters and a well developed skill, it is maybe a 'once in a lifetime emergency' for river boaters but anchor size, design, deployment, and recovery skills are apparently not transferable.

 

 

Toilets are the narrowboater's equivalent to anchors in the marine world it seems.

 

I do wonder why life rings are not mounted within reach of the helm on narrowboats. I would feel uncomfortable not being able to chuck a lifering into the water in less than 3 seconds. There is a harrowing tale on YouTube of a lady who fell in and got her trousers mangled in the prop, in a situation like that seconds count.

51 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

 

Don't get me wrong, there’s a few instances where a BT is handy to have, and it can make the boat do things one without can’t, but there’s always a way round the issue.

 

OK this is starting to make sense. Think I will specify a BT tube for my shell but delay the decision on fitting a thruster for a season or two. Need to remember to specify a battery tray in the bow locker and to fit some BT control wires between the bow and stern.