Pop riveting windows

[Peugeot 106]

Mine were riveted in. After I drilled them out to paint the boat I replaced them with I think 5mm stainless button head allen key machine screws. Suggest you measure the existing rivet heads to find out what sized rivets and therefore what size rivet holes you’ve got. My  rivet holes were luckily slightly smaller than the drill needed for the tap. I drilled them with the correct sized hole and tapped them by holding the tap in my battery drill at slow speed. This worked very well and was quick. I screwed them in by holding cut off Allen key again in the drill.  I didn’t break any taps but I used a dab of cutting compound. If there is any hardwood behind the fastenings the drill, tap and screw thread just bury themselves into it.  I used butyl tape to seal them and it was all a success. 
Note you need to position the butyl tape so that it doesn’t squeeze out beyond the frame or it looks a mess. If you try to cut it off you will scratch the paint and end up with rust. When you have the windows out clean the mastic off them with one off those hard expensive sponge like wheels. AND DON’T BEND THE FRAMES if you lever them out
suggest you wait for better weather or do you know something we don’t

good luck. I’m not saying my way is best but it worked very well for me and you can put exactly the correct pressure on the sealant

 

 

Thinking about it I think they were 3.2 mm rivets and M3.5 or M4 screws. Re corrosion you can get paste used on yacht masts (aluminium) for screwing or riveting with stainless I think it is called Duralec

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Note you need to position the butyl tape so that it doesn’t squeeze out beyond the frame or it looks a mess. If you try to cut it off you will scratch the paint and end up with rust.

 

FWIW I used a plastic picnic knife to cut off he surpasses butyl and no sigs of a scratch. A wooden knife would do as well.

[Quattrodave]

3 hours ago, GUMPY said:

On Loddon Tol used some other type of more solid  stuff which was infinitely better.

 

Out of interest, do you remember what you used?

[Peanut]

Looking for seals, sealant and tapes, there is a good range here:

https://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/

[Peugeot 106]

10 minutes ago, Peanut said:

Looking for seals, sealant and tapes, there is a good range here:

https://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/

Ironmongers should have arboreal butyl tape in various sizes. You don’t need to pay seals direct prices though they are handy for tricky to find stuff

[Peanut]

1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Ironmongers should have arboreal butyl tape in various sizes. You don’t need to pay seals direct prices though they are handy for tricky to find stuff

I had some from Ikea for sticking a sink down.

[GUMPY]

10 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Out of interest, do you remember what you used?

I seem to remember that @ptolemy lane used some kind of solid neoprene not sure exactly what it was.

I used a similar thing under my fairleads to protect the paintwork. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124045895591?

 

[BEngo]

Google "seamseal CV" for butyl tape in various widths and butyl sealant in tubes. 

 

Is used for caravan panel joins, lorry side and roof panels joins and IME  works fine on boat windows.

 

White spirit is excellent at removing old butyl- it just destroys it, so no good for over squish.  Tackle that with a sharp wooden wedge, or a sharpened uPVC window wedge.

 

N

[blackrose]

I'm looking at using these sealed aluminium body/stainless mandrel pop rivets. I think it would be simpler than little machine screws and nuts. But I'll just do one porthole first and see how that goes before deciding on whether to do them all with rivets.

 

Edited April 3 by blackrose

[Peugeot 106]

49 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I'm looking at using these sealed aluminium body/stainless mandrel pop rivets. I think it would be simpler than little machine screws and nuts. But I'll just do one porthole first and see how that goes before deciding on whether to do them all with rivets.

 

Just to say that I thought there was less to go wrong with screws as you can be careful with the tightness. If it goes wrong you can just unscrew them. Why don’t you find a bit of scrap steel and have a practice? The drills, taps and buttonhead screws are cheap enough and easy to obtain from an engineers supplies. Also try the rivets to see how controllable they are. Just trying to help

[blackrose]

I'll have a go with the rivets first because I've got 14 portholes to do, each with 12 holes for fittings so that would be nearly 170 screws and nuts to tighten. I think the rivets might be simpler. Screws & nuts sound easy until you add neoprene tape or sealants, but if the rivets don't work on the first porthole I'll drill them out and switch to screws & nuts.

Edited April 3 by blackrose

[truckcab79]

Same type I’m using on mine though mine are 4.8mm if I recall. If you haven’t got one a lazy tong riveter or a long arm riveter makes it easier on your hands if you have a lot to do in one go. 

Edited April 3 by truckcab79

[blackrose]

25 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Same type I’m using on mine though mine are 4.8mm if I recall. If you haven’t got one a lazy tong riveter or a long arm riveter makes it easier on your hands if you have a lot to do in one go. 

 

Which type would you go for?

 

[Tony Brooks]

Second one, but this type may be easier because the action holds the rivet in place rather than you trying to squeeze the handles and keep it pushed in.

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Which ever rivet puller you use, stick a thick foam pad around the head. You will be glad you did when it jumps and narrowly misses your paintwork/glass.

[truckcab79]

The heavy duty long arm one probably.  The one I have is actually the lazy tong one. Minimal effort. With either of the long ones though, take it slow as it’s very easy for the head to slip when the rivet shaft snaps.  Don’t want it through your window  

Edited April 3 by truckcab79

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Which type would you go for?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404001400121?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=u4iltr8ztt-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=mxvKfNzKR5y&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Which type would you go for?

 

As I mentioned earlier in this thread. For even pressure on the frame, pull up the rivets little by little by releasing the tool levers and removing to pull up another rivet a little, ''opposites'' until they snap off. Similar to tightening engine cylinder heads, bit by bit.

Edited April 3 by bizzard

[matty40s]

12 minutes ago, bizzard said:

As I mentioned earlier in this thread. For even pressure on the frame, pull up the rivets little by little by releasing the tool levers and removing to pull up another rivet a little, ''opposites'' until they snap off. Similar to tightening engine cylinder heads, bit by bit.

Works for me every time 

[Peugeot 106]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

I'll have a go with the rivets first because I've got 14 portholes to do, each with 12 holes for fittings so that would be nearly 170 screws and nuts to tighten. I think the rivets might be simpler. Screws & nuts sound easy until you add neoprene tape or sealants, but if the rivets don't work on the first porthole I'll drill them out and switch to screws & nuts.

There are no nuts if you drill and tap the holes. I reckon it’s just as quick as riveting if you use a drill to drill, tap and screw. No worries about the rivets not seating because you aren’t holding it vertical to the hole or the gun slipping. Apologies for going on a bit but I suspect we both have similar skill levels and I find rivets to be not always as simple as they seem. I again urge you to have a practise on a piece of steel the same thickness as your boat. Remember if it is a lazy tong riveter you will be holding it horizontal and it’s a tad awkward especially when extended. I’m sure lots of people find it simple but do have a practice on some scrap (or someone else’s boat!) first

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

 

That looks like an Inspector Gadget contraption! 🤣

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Which ever rivet puller you use, stick a thick foam pad around the head. You will be glad you did when it jumps and narrowly misses your paintwork/glass.

 

Yes I can imagine...

Edited April 3 by blackrose

[Peugeot 106]

8 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Works for me every time 

Bear in mind that Matty and Bizzard probably can’t remember anything going wrong when they were learning. Each has probably put in hundreds over the years and have it down to a fine art!

[CIEL]

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Works for me every time 

And me.  Caldwells frame was screwed through to battens originally as OP says.

Used ordinary ally with steel shank pop rivets  after I had successfully found the breaking point of the glass in the window and had to replace it!

Was done back in 2007 and I think it was butyl tape I used as well.  Do remember some of the holes were very close to the edge of the cut-out in the steel plate.  Have had no problems with corrosion or leaks since.  Taking up the rivets slowly in turn tended to smoothe out distortion in the steel.

 

Chris

 

 

[blackrose]

45 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404001400121?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=u4iltr8ztt-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=mxvKfNzKR5y&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

 

Thanks, just as cheap as the manual guns.

[bizzard]

3 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Bear in mind that Matty and Bizzard probably can’t remember anything going wrong when they were learning. Each has probably put in hundreds over the years and have it down to a fine art!

Not that many windows but hundreds of cylinder heads, same difference.