Tunnel Bands

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, sarahavfc said:

A fore cabin being called a “potters cabin” is my pet hate!

 Seams to be the new “hip” name with people getting these on their boats. Spoke to the builder that’s doing a few of these for the front bedroom design, he referred to them as you say as   “Fore” or “Front” while the new owners with the finished boat called it the Potters cabin.

 Maybe they like to tell the story of valuable Wedgewood being transported in there, wrapped in straw.😂

Edited March 3 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Captain Pegg]

10 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 Seams to be the new “hip” name with people getting these on their boats. Spoke to the builder that’s doing a few of these for the front bedroom design, he referred to them as you say as   “Fore” or “Front” while the new owners with the finished boat called it the Potters cabin.

 Maybe they like to tell the story of valuable Wedgewood being transported in there, wrapped in straw.😂

I’m pretty sure that @IanD picked the term up from his builder and the explanation was that the space in which it sits was available because the boats concerned carried raw materials of high density to the Potteries, i.e. clay, rather than finished products.

 

Whether this is true, or if it is that the term was ever used historically, I know not.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Assuming it even was a real thing once upon a time isn’t a potter’s cabin supposed to sit further back than a fore cabin, in the space where the cratch is on most carrying boats?

But is it a real thing at all? Where did the term come from?

To me the term 'fore cabin' includes both those located where the front deck would otherwise be, as on some FMC butties, and those located in the front end of the hold as on Clayton's Gifford.

Edited March 3 by David Mack

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I’m pretty sure that @IanD picked the term up from his builder and the explanation was that the space in which it sits was available because the boats concerned carried raw materials of high density to the Potteries, i.e. clay, rather than finished products.

 

Whether this is true, or if it is that the term was ever used historically, I know not.

Is that the historic boat builder that’s been building for the last 100 years or the one that’s been building for about 7 year? 
 Looking at the Fore cabins you wouldn’t get a great deal of cargo in them, more likely a place to store boat running gear, ropes, spikes, canvas, wedges?

 Stuff that you want easy access to and to store, a ready use locker.

 

Edited March 3 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[blackrose]

49 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But is it a real thing at all? 

 

 

No, it's all bollox. Just another example of people buying boats or having them built, which they claim are traditional but at best have a few features which nod to the past. Let's face it, once you have a full length superstructure on a new build narrowboat it's about as relevant to a historic working boat as a Collingwood widebeam! 🤣

[Captain Pegg]

21 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Is that the historic boat builder that’s been building for the last 100 years or the one that’s been building for about 7 year? 
 Looking at the Fore cabins you wouldn’t get a great deal of  cargo in them, more likely a place to store boat running gear, ropes, spikes, canvas?

 

Fore-cabins were for people, additional space for children to sleep.

 

The term seems to originate in its modern (only?) usage with Tyler Wilson and I’d guess that’s from the part that’s from Newcastle-under-Lyme rather than the one from Sheffield.

 

@David Mack, I think it’s pretty clear that I don’t know if the term has any true historical provenance. However looking through A Canal People the only fore-cabins pictured are over the bows. These being ex-FMC general cargo boats repurposed for the coal trade.
 

Gifford being a Clayton’s tar boat also carried a cargo where mass likely governed over volume in terms of loading. So maybe there is something in it. Are there photos of boats in the Potteries with fore-cabins at the front of the hold?

 

Just because we don’t know something to be true doesn’t mean it’s false.

 

Edited March 3 by Captain Pegg

[Tonka]

48 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Is that the historic boat builder that’s been building for the last 100 years or the one that’s been building for about 7 year? 
 Looking at the Fore cabins you wouldn’t get a great deal of cargo in them, more likely a place to store boat running gear, ropes, spikes, canvas, wedges?

 Stuff that you want easy access to and to store, a ready use locker.

 

I thought it was called the gas locker

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

57 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Fore-cabins were for people, additional space for children to sleep.

 

The term seems to originate in its modern (only?) usage with Tyler Wilson and I’d guess that’s from the part that’s from Newcastle-under-Lyme rather than the one from Sheffield.

Wilson is originally from the Potteries and he calls them Fore or Front Cabins. I heard the story that the name came from the ware that was carried in that part of the boat, expensive fragile pottery heading to London. But we’ll never know, so some will call them Potters and others will call them Fore.

 

24 minutes ago, Tonka said:

I thought it was called the gas locker

If there was no gas in there, as on a gas free all electric boat, you could call it the “Potters Locker” and Bamboozle Gongoozlers with a nostalgic story of your own😂

Edited March 3 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Captain Pegg]

17 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Wilson is originally from the Potteries and he calls them Fore or Front Cabins.

 Maybe boat owners want to make new names up to feel a bit nostalgic.

I doubt any of us here had heard the term until @IanD referenced it when describing his layout for Rallentando.

 

I very much doubt any boater made the term up and Ian himself is avowed in his dislike of nods to tradition - real or faux - so I can’t see he would be guilty of using the term for the reason you suggest.

[Tonka]

22 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Wilson is originally from the Potteries and he calls them Fore or Front Cabins.

 Maybe boat owners want to make new names up to feel a bit nostalgic.

If there was no gas in there, as on a gas free all electric boat, you could call it the “Potters Locker” and Bamboozke Gongoozlers with a nostalgic story of your own😂

 What about a gas free diesel boat.

Why don't we call it the bow locker

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 minutes ago, Tonka said:

 What about a gas free diesel boat.

Why don't we call it the bow locker

Because that’s what I call my well deck lockers😂

[Captain Pegg]

My own dislike is the use of the name ‘Wigrams’. It’s a term that seems to have come back into modern usage probably via the books published by the wartime female trainees (themselves never called Idle Women in their own time).

 

I don’t dispute that boaters once used this term but what they were saying was “Wiggerham’s” in the hybrid Midlands accent that boaters tended to have.

 

It’s someone’s name so somewhere along the way somebody should have done some research and got the spelling correct, particularly for the marina which in my view spoils the look of the place to boot.

 

How crap to be remembered by folk that never knew you and can’t be arsed to spell your name correctly.

[MtB]

I'd call it a bow cabin or fore cabin.

 

Pretty sure I first encountered the term "potter's cabin" about ten years ago at Braunston Marina, on the sales details describing the bow cabin on a boat on brokerage there. At the time I thought, WTF? Imagining a potter's wheel set up in there all ready for clay pot-throwing. 

 

Anyway were I a carrier of high value ceramic ware, I doubt I'd stow the most valuable stuff right in the bow. More likely amidships as in the event of a thump, that is the best-protected part of the boat from shock loading of the cargo.

 

 

 

[Tonka]

If the back cabin is behind the engine room then any cabin in front of the engine is the fore cabin

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I doubt any of us here had heard the term until @IanD referenced it when describing his layout for Rallentando.

 

I very much doubt any boater made the term up and Ian himself is avowed in his dislike of nods to tradition - real or faux - so I can’t see he would be guilty of using the term for the reason you suggest.

 

I can't remember where I heard it called that, but it needs a name (fore, potter's, whatever...) so you can talk about it -- nothing to do with any like or dislike of nostalgia...

 

Whatever it's called, the extra internal space and watertight bows (with no doors) suits me just fine, even if others prefer something different 🙂 

[Ray T]

19 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

My own dislike is the use of the name ‘Wigrams’. It’s a term that seems to have come back into modern usage probably via the books published by the wartime female trainees (themselves never called Idle Women in their own time).

 

I don’t dispute that boaters once used this term but what they were saying was “Wiggerham’s” in the hybrid Midlands accent that boaters tended to have.

 

It’s someone’s name so somewhere along the way somebody should have done some research and got the spelling correct, particularly for the marina which in my view spoils the look of the place to boot.

 

How crap to be remembered by folk that never knew you and can’t be arsed to spell your name correctly.

Mike Humphris always called the 3 locks at what is now Calcutt, “The Wigram’s Three.” Never Calcutt locks. Bearing in mind he came from 6 generations of Oxford boat people.

When ever I spoke to Mike I had to use place names and terms he recognised otherwise he would say “I don’t know what you are talking about Ray.” E.g. the Ashby Canal was always “The Moira ( prounounced ‘Moiree’ by Mike) Cut.”

I always loved listening to Mike speak, he would say Oxford with a lovely drawl and in almost the next breath come out with ‘tis arr in a perfect Black Country accent.

 

 

Edited March 4 by Ray T

[Machpoint005]

Our terminology has always been "front" and "back" (occasionally "stern"). We don't hold with all this pseudo-marine posturing. 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

3 hours ago, Ray T said:

Mike Humphris always called the 3 locks at what is now Calcutt, “The Wigram’s Three.” Never Calcutt locks. Bearing in mind he came from 6 generations of Oxford boat people.

When ever I spoke to Mike I had to use place names and terms he recognised otherwise he would say “I don’t know what you are talking about Ray.” E.g. the Ashby Canal was always “The Moira ( prounounced ‘Moiree’ by Mike) Cut.”

I always loved listening to Mike speak, he would say Oxford with a lovely drawl and in almost the next breath come out with ‘tis arr in a perfect Black Country accent.

 

 

Sounds like he never entirely lost some Oxford from his accent. The issue isn’t the use of the name or the pronunciation though, it’s the way it’s written. I dare say my boating ancestors - with an almost identical family history to Mike - also used the name but I’ll wager they never wrote it.  And I’d be certain if they could have written it they’d have been sure to spell it correctly.

 

In any case I’d also bet that what boat people actually called it was a lot closer to “Wigrums” than “Wigrams” phonetically.

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Sounds like he never entirely lost some Oxford from his accent. The issue isn’t the use of the name or the pronunciation though, it’s the way it’s written. I dare say my boating ancestors - with an almost identical family history to Mike - also used the name but I’ll wager they never wrote it.  And I’d be certain if they could have written it they’d have been sure to spell it correctly.

 

In any case I’d also bet that what boat people actually called it was a lot closer to “Wigrums” than “Wigrams” phonetically.

Wasn't he the policeman in The Simpsons

[Ray T]

On 03/03/2024 at 13:26, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Wilson is originally from the Potteries and he calls them Fore or Front Cabins. I heard the story that the name came from the ware that was carried in that part of the boat, expensive fragile pottery heading to London. But we’ll never know, so some will call them Potters and others will call them Fore.

 

 

From the book "Care on the Cut" by Dr. Sadler-Moore, Lorna York & Chris M Jones.

 

 

Also I believe the word Cratch is derived from the French word crèche meaning amongst other things manger, where straw & hay were stored i.e.  the bow area of horse boats.

The fitting which supports the top plank is as far as I am aware a deck board as it sits on the deck beam

Although to compound the issue Edward Paget-Tomlinson refers to it as a Cratch.

 

From here: Historic Narrow Boat Features - The Inland Waterways Association
 

12.  CRATCH BOARDS

The ‘cratch’ is the name given to the area at the front of a narrow boat’s hold, protected by a ‘cratch board’ (also known as a ‘deck board’).  The shape is triangular with the top of the triangle cut off.  Often highly decorated, it supports the top planks and protects the cargo.

 

Edited March 4 by Ray T

[magnetman]

Fire is interesting. Bulkhead mounted is a good approach but I wonder if there is some artistic licence in that image. 

 

Looks a bit like a Jotul but they are much too big and also mounted on legs. 

 

Intriguing if it is an actual fire. Do any still exist? 

[David Mack]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Fire is interesting. Bulkhead mounted is a good approach but I wonder if there is some artistic licence in that image. 

 

Looks a bit like a Jotul but they are much too big and also mounted on legs. 

 

Intriguing if it is an actual fire. Do any still exist? 

I have seen a stove like that before, although I can't recall whether in the flesh or a photograph. It may have been in one of the museum boats. It was in poor condition with some missing parts, but the same distinctive shape. 

Of course I may have seen the same single example as the artist of that book!

I have also read somewhere that new motor boats were supplied with something similar, and it was the individual boatmen who replaced them with ranges more suited to cooking.

[Alan de Enfield]

Interesting to see the cat-litter tray ..........................

 

 

[springy]

I know them as a "Bottle Stove" commonly used in BCN day boat cabins - Birchills at BCLM has one.

 

springy

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

From the book "Care on the Cut" by Dr. Sadler-Moore, Lorna York & Chris M Jones.

 

 

And todays version, no fire, just a king size bed.

 

Edited March 4 by BoatinglifeupNorth