Tidal Thames.

[fudd]

Has anyone tried to book Limehouse Lock lately. Apparently C&RT only operate the lock during office hours. We used to book a 5.00 am jaunt but the only time we have been given is 3.30 in the afternoon. We’ve always tried to avoid the busy period with river busses etc. 5.00 in the morning was perfect. It still says on C&RT’s website that t you can book it 24 hrs in advance for a 5.00 trip but if you try and book it, it’s a different story. 

[DaveP]

As ever, CRT's left- and right- hands are entirely unconnected. Limehouse now needs booking through the licensing website -  https://licensing.canalrivertrust.org.uk/PassageBooking - only open for tidal windows within 0800-1600 until Easter and then 0700-1900 (I think).  Brentford needs to be booked separately if you're doing that passage through the same site.

 

If you want, I've done myself a spreadsheet that shows the available passage timings for this rather than having to paw through their pathetic user interface....

Edited February 24, 2024 by DaveP

[fudd]

6 minutes ago, DaveP said:

As ever, CRT's left- and right- hands are entirely unconnected. Limehouse now needs booking through the licensing website -  https://licensing.canalrivertrust.org.uk/PassageBooking - only open for tidal windows within 0800-1600 until Easter and then 0700-1900 (I think).  Brentford needs to be booked separately if you're doing that passage through the same site.

 

If you want, I've done myself a spreadsheet that shows the available passage timings for this rather than having to paw through their pathetic user interface....

Thanks. Our problem is that a few of us have booked our holidays based on the incoming tide at 5.00am. 

[cheesegas]

That’s really really crap. My favourite time to go from Limehouse to teddington is 6am on a Sunday in summer. Nice empty river, you beat most of the Clippers as they start at just past 7am, really peaceful. 

[Peugeot 106]

What we wanted, then what they said we could have, then what we got on the day were completely different. They also gave is completely the wrong information for the Tidal Thames. I suggest you double check any info you get off them. They said we would be in Teddington in 2 hours  and couldn’t understand why we didn’t want to hang around! 

The day of the knowlegable, helpful lockeeper were long gone when we were there. There was no chance of getting out “out of hours”. They were also very rude not only to us but to our Pilot and other boats

At the time I did think of registering a formal complaint 

I hope you don’t have to deal with the same jobsworthy halfwits

8 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

That’s really really crap. My favourite time to go from Limehouse to teddington is 6am on a Sunday in summer. Nice empty river, you beat most of the Clippers as they start at just past 7am, really peaceful. 

You’ve got to be kidding. They don’t operate according to the tides. Just office hours. We wanted out at 6am and they agreed but on the day it was nearer 12 am

[GUMPY]

12 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

We wanted out at 6am and they agreed but on the day it was nearer 12 am

You went out at midnight?🤔

[magnetman]

I'm going to be using Limehouse quite regularly. The conditions don't make much difference for this Boat as it can deal with anything but it is interesting. I wonder what the protocol with the waiting pontoons will be if people turn up later than expected.

 

It is my theory that it would be convenient for Aquavista and the CRT if the lock became rarely used. I heard they are not taking visitors any more. It is still a CRT lock so is available for licensed craft but of course early exit is very nice. Like a private waterway. 

 

Its upsetting this has changed but not all that surprising. 

 

 

18 hours ago, DaveP said:

As ever, CRT's left- and right- hands are entirely unconnected. Limehouse now needs booking through the licensing website -  https://licensing.canalrivertrust.org.uk/PassageBooking - only open for tidal windows within 0800-1600 until Easter and then 0700-1900 (I think).  Brentford needs to be booked separately if you're doing that passage through the same site.

 

If you want, I've done myself a spreadsheet that shows the available passage timings for this rather than having to paw through their pathetic user interface....

 

I'd love to see the spreadsheet it sounds brilliant. 

 

 

 

So I went online took 8th March as an option and it said '8.08 to 13.56' then the slot was automatically allocated as 13.56. Looking at my tide tables this is -after- high tide so one would not really be getting anywhere. The whole idea is to use the tide to help you along. 

 

What a rubbish setup. I wonder if the PLA has anything to say about this. Discharging a canal Boat from Limehouse after high tide who wants to go inward bound is not safe. 

 

 

 

 

[Bee]

Just a thought. don't know what hours Greenland wharf (dock??) operate but it might be possible to nip across the river in 'office hours' then leave from Greenland dock earlier ??? Probably not but you never know.

 

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Bee said:

Just a thought. don't know what hours Greenland wharf (dock??) operate but it might be possible to nip across the river in 'office hours' then leave from Greenland dock earlier ??? Probably not but you never know.

 

Use of the lock is chargeable as the South Dock marina is owned by the council. Well it may be a mooring charge not a lockage charge but same effect.

There is a waiting area but not comfortable. 

 

 

 

 

[cheesegas]

2 hours ago, Bee said:

Just a thought. don't know what hours Greenland wharf (dock??) operate but it might be possible to nip across the river in 'office hours' then leave from Greenland dock earlier ??? Probably not but you never know.

 

South Dock don't charge to lock in and out but they do charge to moor up inside. There's a visitor berth in South Dock at the blue crane end of the marina, right in the corner.

 

I also wouldn't fancy single handing a 60' narrowboat from the South Dock lock to Greenland, it's very tight with lots of fibreglass boats!

[Victor Vectis]

I'm wondering what the St. Pancras Cruising Club have to say about all this?

[magnetman]

Interesting things happening at South Dock marina. I believe although would need verifying that they are no longer taking visitors in the same way that Limehouse isn't (unless you are a CRT licence holder). 

 

Worth checking these things in advance. 

 

2 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

I'm wondering what the St. Pancras Cruising Club have to say about all this?

@Scholar Gypsy is one of the SPCC members I think. 

 

 

[Victor Vectis]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

@Scholar Gypsy is one of the SPCC members I think.

 

Yes.

I had him in mind.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Thanks for drawing this thread to my attention.  Three representatives (from SPCC, IWA and the DBA/Limehouse residents) had a useful meeting with CRT a few days ago.  They have accepted that the current slots offered on the website are not right, and in particular don't allow for the various options for arriving and departing. Watch this space! 

 

A few other points I would add:

• I strongly  agree with @Peugeot 106 that the skipper needs to do their own passage planning and understand the tides.  One certainly should not rely on a website to tell you when to depart. 
• The winter hours (0800-1600) only apply from November to February inclusive. The other 8 months are 0700-1900.
• We are still discussing these hours with CRT. It's not going to be easy to persuade them to change - this is a national policy and one that makes sense in many contexts (but the moon does not cooperate so far as tidal locks are concerned).
• These new hours will mean there are quite a few days, even in summer, where Brentford to Limehouse (and vv) transits are not possible. And some days when Limehouse to/from Teddington is not possible (unless you fancy bashing against the tide) 
• CRT have started training people to operate the lock (and the bridge, which is temperamental). I have volunteered myself. Ditto Brentford Thames lock (which is simpler). 
• We have been trying to engage the PLA on all this, but no luck yet. I will have another go at their open meeting (they are normally excellent events) in Putney on Monday week.

Edited February 25, 2024 by Scholar Gypsy

[magnetman]

I am very interested in the PLA view on all this. I seem to recall a while back there were some rumours around that the PLA may look to ban canal Boats or perhaps require skippers of vessels entering the tideway to have a certificate of some sort. 

 

It might be my imagination but I think they may find the presence of leisure narrow Boats a bit of a nuisance. 

 

Risk assessments &c. 

 

 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I am very interested in the PLA view on all this. I seem to recall a while back there were some rumours around that the PLA may look to ban canal Boats or perhaps require skippers of vessels entering the tideway to have a certificate of some sort. 

 

It might be my imagination but I think they may find the presence of leisure narrow Boats a bit of a nuisance. 

 

Risk assessments &c. 

 

 

 

I've not heard any more on this in recent years.

Personally I think the PLA harbourmasters work really hard to allow the smallest thing that will float, and the biggest container ships in the world, to safely co-exist. Supported by the Chief Executive who is (or was!) a tideway rower. I suspect SUPs are more of a nuisance than narrowboats.  (see the idiot in the link below)

 

So for example they come down hard on anyone creating excessive wash.  For our part, proper preparation and equipment is key, which is why I always react quite volubly when I see people posting on social media saying "a mobile phone is fine, you don't need a VHF radio".  That sort of attitude will increase the risk of further regulatory action. It is fair to note that (following an unfortunate incident at Hammersmith a few years ago) the regulations for hire boats on the tideway  cannot realistically be complied with by narrowboats - so there aren't any any more.

https://scholargypsy.org.uk/2023/07/13/sup-training/

[DaveP]

12 hours ago, magnetman said:

I'm going to be using Limehouse quite regularly. The conditions don't make much difference for this Boat as it can deal with anything but it is interesting. I wonder what the protocol with the waiting pontoons will be if people turn up later than expected.

 

It is my theory that it would be convenient for Aquavista and the CRT if the lock became rarely used. I heard they are not taking visitors any more. It is still a CRT lock so is available for licensed craft but of course early exit is very nice. Like a private waterway. 

 

Its upsetting this has changed but not all that surprising. 

 

 

 

I'd love to see the spreadsheet it sounds brilliant. 

 

 

 

So I went online took 8th March as an option and it said '8.08 to 13.56' then the slot was automatically allocated as 13.56. Looking at my tide tables this is -after- high tide so one would not really be getting anywhere. The whole idea is to use the tide to help you along. 

 

What a rubbish setup. I wonder if the PLA has anything to say about this. Discharging a canal Boat from Limehouse after high tide who wants to go inward bound is not safe. 

 

 

 

 

I've posted the spreadsheet (it's a Libreoffice one not Excel) in the Canalworld FB group as I can't see how to place it in the forums here...

[Scholar Gypsy]

I also have a spreadsheet, that I am using to show to CRT the slots that I think are needed on each tide during the year. Current version is here, but this is subject to change ....

tides_v5.xlsx

[magnetman]

That is great. 

 

Hopefully they will go for that. 

[ditchcrawler]

15 hours ago, DaveP said:

I've posted the spreadsheet (it's a Libreoffice one not Excel) in the Canalworld FB group as I can't see how to place it in the forums here...

It looks as if you cant post that file extension on here, so maybe someone can convert it to XL and post it. I run open office but it didn't work for me so I don't know if something has been lost in the export ?

[IanD]

LibreOffice can save in standard Excel format(s) as well as .ods...

[Hudds Lad]

 

Unsure if anything will be lost  

 

You then get...

 

 

And finally when trying to save as .xlsx you get...

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by Hudds Lad
further investigation

[DaveP]

Hmm, I'm running LO  6.4.7.2 - saved it as a .xlsx file, so see if this works...

Limehouse-2024.xlsx

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, DaveP said:

Hmm, I'm running LO  6.4.7.2 - saved it as a .xlsx file, so see if this works...

Limehouse-2024.xlsx 379.92 kB · 1 download

 

Works 100% for me.

[Hudds Lad]

13 minutes ago, DaveP said:

Hmm, I'm running LO  6.4.7.2 - saved it as a .xlsx file, so see if this works...

Limehouse-2024.xlsx 379.92 kB · 0 downloads

Gives no errors on opening or saving in Excel now, and all the previously blank fields seem to have data