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Canal boats’ green image goes up in smoke


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4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You simply cannot buy stuff like this in 2024.

 

Curiously they were discussing exactly this on the wireless a couple of days ago, and apparently yes you can. 

 

One of the chef bods taking part said, like you, that his top quality cast iron frying pan was better than non-stick pans. Trouble is, the current price of it is well into four figures! 

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25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I would imagine he just assumed it based on this phrase in the article:

 

"the picture of the author relaxing in front of his wood-burning stove"

 

 

 

That was my point, to all too many people an enclosed stove = wood burner so unless the author could see that the boater was actually burning wood, it could well have been solid fuel, and quite possibly smokeless.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That was my point, to all too many people an enclosed stove = wood burner so unless the author could see that the boater was actually burning wood, it could well have been solid fuel, and quite possibly smokeless.

 

Yes. 

 

And perhaps it was even a ubiquitous Morsø "Squirrel" stove which (AIUI) is a "multi-fuel stove" rather than a wood burner exclusively. 

 

In fact I think most boat stoves are for coal only, or multifuel. I can't imagine getting much wood into the firebox of my Epping!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
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3 hours ago, IanD said:

 

IIRC smokeless fuel has much lower PM2.5 emissions than burning wood

 

Around a quarter the amount compared to seasoned or kiln dried wood, and way way less than unseasoned wood.

 

IMG_0111.thumb.jpeg.88c5524409dd21534a31637970fe0425.jpeg

Edited by booke23
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46 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Around a a quarter the amount compared to seasoned or kiln dried wood, and way way less than unseasoned wood.

 

IMG_0111.thumb.jpeg.88c5524409dd21534a31637970fe0425.jpeg

Thanks, those are the figures I remembered -- and posted ages go, I think.

 

Best estimate is that PM2.5 emissions just from woodburning stoves in urban areas are responsible for getting on for 10000 deaths per year in the UK.

 

Since the vast majority of these are "lifestyle" woodburners in towns not "essential" for heating, banning them is easy to justify and hard to argue against -- though I'm sure their owners will disagree... 😉

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33 minutes ago, IanD said:

 Since the vast majority of these are "lifestyle" woodburners in towns not "essential" for heating, banning them is easy to justify and hard to argue against -- though I'm sure their owners will disagree... 

I wonder if the increase over the last couple of years has also been caused by the rising cost of gas and electric prices to heat properties and the fitting of multi fuel fires seam the cheap heating option? So could be argued its a financial thing to have one fitted?

 I imagine there may of been a lot of once covered fireplaces re-opened and put back into use?

Edited by BoatinglifeupNorth
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1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I wonder if the increase over the last couple of years has also been caused by the rising cost of gas and electric prices to heat properties and the fitting of multi fuel fires seam the cheap heating option? So could be argued its a financial thing to have one fitted?

 I imagine there may of been a lot of once covered fireplaces re-opened and put back into use?

No, it's simply fashion -- they look lovely and "cosy" but aren't either cheap to run or particularly effective at heating. Their numbers have been going up for maybe ten years or so, since long before the energy price crisis or even Covid.

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1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I wonder if the increase over the last couple of years has also been caused by the rising cost of gas and electric prices to heat properties and the fitting of multi fuel fires seam the cheap heating option? So could be argued its a financial thing to have one fitted?

 I imagine there may of been a lot of once covered fireplaces re-opened and put back into use?

 

I did this experiment last winter, turning the gas central heating off and just using smokeless coal in the multi-fuel stove at home. It’s placed quite centrally so that it does actually heat the whole house quite effectively. This was when energy was at it’s most expensive, and I worked out I spent nearly the same in coal compared to gas saved. So I only saved a little - perhaps £100.

 

Now that energy prices have dropped a bit and coal is a bit more expensive, I doubt I’d save anything now. Burning wood would be a non starter in this experiment as it’s considerably more expensive per kw/h compared to smokeless coal…..I’d probably have been £1000 out of pocket if I’d tried it with wood. 

 

An open fire would also be a non starter…..they are only something like 25% efficient whereas a stove is 80% efficient.  

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23 minutes ago, IanD said:

No, it's simply fashion -- they look lovely and "cosy" but aren't either cheap to run or particularly effective at heating. Their numbers have been going up for maybe ten years or so, since long before the energy price crisis or even Covid.

The fashion ones used to be the gas fuelled stoves along with the rustic oak mantle fitted into exposed brick fireplaces 🔥🔥

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Bad health especially breathing problems are with a great many folk caused by obesity, gorging on mountains of crap grub, one only has to note what some folk in front of you at the supermarket checkout sre buying ie, huge bottles of fizzy pop, burgers, sausage rolls, enormous bags of frozen chips, huge hunks of meat, massive bumper bags of crisps ect, big stacks of toilet rolls. Probably driven only half a mile to get there with the seat shoved right back and the steering wheel jambed in their fat tummy instead of walking and very likely go back home to gorge on big greasy fry ups and doughnuts whilst goggling at the telly or playing on laptops and phones. No excersize !!!. just heavy puffing and blowing when lurching about. As Harold Mc Millan once said,''We've never had it so good''. 🍿🥨🍨🥔🥩🥵

Edited by bizzard
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41 minutes ago, booke23 said:

I did this experiment last winter, turning the gas central heating off and just using smokeless coal in the multi-fuel stove at home. It’s placed quite centrally so that it does actually heat the whole house quite effectively

I have done the opposite and just use the stat to control the house temperature. 17deg overnight 18deg daytime and 19deg evening. I also turned down the flow temperature from 75 to 55, so I don't get overshoot peaks. Result is house is just as warm and I've managed a 25% saving on my monthly gas bill.

 

This is all to see how suitable my system will be for an ASHP

Just to add the stat is in the hall which is a cold part of the house and although it's 19deg there it's 21.3deg in the sitting room.

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25 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Bad health especially breathing problems are with a great many folk caused by obesity, gorging on mountains of crap grub, one only has to note what some folk in front of you at the supermarket checkout sre buying ie, huge bottles of fizzy pop, burgers, sausage rolls, enormous bags of frozen chips, huge hunks of meat, massive bumper bags of crisps ect, big stacks of toilet rolls. Probably driven only half a mile to get there instead of walking and very likely go back home to gorge on big greasy fry ups and doughnuts whilst goggling at the telly or playing on laptops and phones. No excersize !!!. just heavy puffing and blowing when lurching about. As Harold Mc Millan once said,''We've never had it so good''. 🍿🥨🍨🥔🥩🥵

You've been spying on me!!!

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5 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I have done the opposite and just use the stat to control the house temperature. 17deg overnight 18deg daytime and 19deg evening. I also turned down the flow temperature from 75 to 55, so I don't get overshoot peaks. Result is house is just as warm and I've managed a 25% saving on my monthly gas bill.

This winter is much warmer here than the last two winters. I don't ever check what I use oil wise, I simply buy when needed. My heating is on like you 24/7 in autumn winter. I have thermo stat set at 15 overnight and 21 during the day. As I type boiler has clicked off and come on off at various times. I used to switch off totally on a night and sometimes temp wud drop to 12 but setting it at 15 means most nights it never comes on but when cold it doesn't take ages in the day to get back to temperature. The eejut before me removed chimney breast so I can't easily have a lovely multi fuel stove 🙄 would luuuurv one.

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12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

setting it at 15 means most nights it never comes on but when cold it doesn't take ages in the day to get back to temperature. 🙄

 

Exactly this, 

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4 hours ago, IanD said:

Since the vast majority of these are "lifestyle" woodburners in towns not "essential" for heating, banning them is easy to justify and hard to argue against -- though I'm sure their owners will disagree... 😉

 

Surely its better to ban burning wood than to ban wood-burners.

 

If you ban wood-burners, people will replace them with multi-fuel stoves. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Surely its better to ban burning wood than to ban wood-burners.

 

If you ban wood-burners, people will replace them with multi-fuel stoves. 

 

Are you expecting our government to make a sensible choice having considered the ramifications?  You must be new here ... ;)

 

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58 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Surely its better to ban burning wood than to ban wood-burners.

 

If you ban wood-burners, people will replace them with multi-fuel stoves. 

 

 

I suspect most woodburners are actually multi fuel. Mine is always referred to as the former, but is definitely the latter. Currently burning mostly wood as I had an ash tree cut down two years back. It also burns copies of the Grauniad recycled into compressed bricks, and you can't get more Guardianreaderish than that. No near neighbours apart from a herd of cows and they don't seem to mind.

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Surely its better to ban burning wood than to ban wood-burners.

 

If you ban wood-burners, people will replace them with multi-fuel stoves. 

 

They're probably mostly multi-fuel anyway as you say -- which means the ban would be on burning wood.

3 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

The fashion ones used to be the gas fuelled stoves along with the rustic oak mantle fitted into exposed brick fireplaces 🔥🔥

True, but now the trendy thing is all woodburners -- look at any pictures or articles about modern homes, or what's in look-at-me houses on the telly...

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We decided to fit one like this

 

stockton-gas-stove-1-mi.jpg.99cd223dfde48e4d3652bb92a4f3e99b.jpg

 

When we re did our house.

No ash, no mess, no storing and drying of logs.

As it happens we rarely use it as reaching for the remote control is sooo hard🤔

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21 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

 

 

Curiously they were discussing exactly this on the wireless a couple of days ago, and apparently yes you can. 

 

One of the chef bods taking part said, like you, that his top quality cast iron frying pan was better than non-stick pans. Trouble is, the current price of it is well into four figures! 

https://www.boulanger.com/ref/1176027?at_medium=sl&at_campaign=[PLAcuisinecuisson]&at_platform=google&gclsrc=3p.ds&kard=1&kClkId=240225120226526911&kVsId=240225120114525543&msclkid=b5ea64f47d901fb32a46012f63a74eb4

I suppose that €79.99 counts as 4 figures.

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2 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

 

 

I suspect that *may* not have been the one the 'professional chef' in the programme owned and was talking about...! 

 

 

 

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Just now, MtB said:

 

 

I suspect that *may* not have been the one the 'professional chef' in the programme owned and was talking about...! 

 

 

 

I know, but considering how few people actually need a professional quality pan, I thought I'd point out to the assembled masses that there are sensibly priced cast iron pots and pans available.

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

I suspect that *may* not have been the one the 'professional chef' in the programme owned and was talking about...! 

 

 

 

 

I think that he was talking about his titanium pan costing as much as a car, not his cast iron one. Oh, and it was about the pans he has at home.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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