What a load of bollards!

[Midnight]

https://www.narrowboatworld.com/15124-damian

Please someone tell me this is bollards or is it another let's change the bollards and give ourselves a bonus for doing it?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

https://www.narrowboatworld.com/15124-damian

Please someone tell me this is bollards or is it another let's change the bollards and give ourselves a bonus for doing it?

Narrowboat World is the Daily Mail of the waterways on-line press. Exists to provide a rage fix to its readers. Truthiness of the stories is optional and shouldn't get in the way of the rage.

[Arthur Marshall]

20 minutes ago, Midnight said:

https://www.narrowboatworld.com/15124-damian

Please someone tell me this is bollards or is it another let's change the bollards and give ourselves a bonus for doing it?

Nope, it's been designed by some random nutcase and is being toured round festivals to see if we like it.

Although, I must admit a taller bollard that I don't have to bend down to tie up to wouldn't get any complaints from my back. As it has bits sticking out, it would also make it easier for walkers to hang their dog poo bags on it, like they do everywhere else. Win all round.

[MtB]

30 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As it has bits sticking out, it would also make it easier for walkers to hang their dog poo bags on it, like they do everywhere else. Win all round.

 

Well I seem to be on my own with this. I think the dog poo decorations are a major improvement on the previous method used by dog walkers, that of leaving it on the footpath for others to step in and spread about. 

 

[David Mack]

Victor has it wrong from the start. His article begins "THE latest idea from our masters is to have a new design of lock bollard."

Whereas the Boaters Update from CRT makes clear it is only being considered for use at specifically designated accessible moorings.

By all means question whether the new bollard is needed, but at least get your facts right Victor!

Also interesting to note that this is not something developed by CRT, it has come out of discussions by disabled boaters.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/boating-news-and-views/the-boaters-update/boaters-update-26-january-2024

Edited January 28 by David Mack

[Midnight]

Thank you for the responses I had visions of large bollards and big signs saying "Beware of large bollards" while the lock was shut because the top paddles were both broken.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Midnight said:

Thank you for the responses I had visions of large bollards and big signs saying "Beware of large bollards" while the lock was shut because the top paddles were both broken.

 ha, my thinking too,

nice new bollards at a lock that’s broken or at a silted up visitor mooring 

[Creaking Gate]

Narrowboatworld and facts.... Lol....  Victor talking bollards for 25 year. 

Edited January 29 by Creaking Gate

[magnetman]

On 28/01/2024 at 11:43, David Mack said:

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/boating-news-and-views/the-boaters-update/boaters-update-26-january-2024

 

Thats going to want to be very well anchored into the ground. Too much leverage when someone throws a loop around the top of it. 

 

Crap. 

 

Whoever thought it up must have seen  bollards on tugs and not realised that they are extended through the deck to a reinforced framework on the hull. 

 

It will get pulled out in five seconds how are they intending to fix it and what to ? If it is a large piece of concrete its going to make a big hole when someone wraps a line onto it with a 20 tonne Boat still moving and the rope binds. 

Edited January 29 by magnetman

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Thats going to want to be very well anchored into the ground. Too much leverage when someone throws a loop around the top of it. 

 

Crap. 

 

Whoever thought it up must have seen  bollards on tugs and not realised that they are extended through the deck to a reinforced framework on the hull. 

 

It will get pulled out in five seconds how are they intending to fix it and what to ? If it is a large piece of concrete its going to make a big hole when someone wraps a line onto it with a 20 tonne Boat still moving and the rope binds. 

 

Blindingly obvious though, and not exactly news to CART either... 😉

 

“Of course, the bollards will have to be installed very firmly on a deep foundation into the ground to counter the extra leverage force that will be applied at a higher level. This needs to be factored into the final design, which has been developed by Marcus Chaloner, the Trust’s head of placemaking and design.

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Thats going to want to be very well anchored into the ground. Too much leverage when someone throws a loop around the top of it. 

 

Crap. 

 

Whoever thought it up must have seen  bollards on tugs and not realised that they are extended through the deck to a reinforced framework on the hull. 

 

It will get pulled out in five seconds how are they intending to fix it and what to ? If it is a large piece of concrete its going to make a big hole when someone wraps a line onto it with a 20 tonne Boat still moving and the rope binds. 

I always think that when I see someone moored with the rope ties round the top of a stake sticking 3 foot out of the ground

[magnetman]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Blindingly obvious though, and not exactly news to CART either... 😉

 

“Of course, the bollards will have to be installed very firmly on a deep foundation into the ground to counter the extra leverage force that will be applied at a higher level. This needs to be factored into the final design, which has been developed by Marcus Chaloner, the Trust’s head of placemaking and design.

 

So obvious that someone has actually suggested using them. 

 

Bizarre. 

Is this an early April fools joke?

 

 

What needs to be 'factored into the final design' is the fact that the thing is twice as long as it should be. 

 

Is this all part of the Great Dumbing Down?

[Jerra]

My opinion.

 

If it aint broke don't fix it.

 

Bollards of the conventional design have worked successfully for years why change.

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, Jerra said:

My opinion.

 

If it aint broke don't fix it.

 

Bollards of the conventional design have worked successfully for years why change.

Because disabled people cant bend down to tie their ropes round them. I do wonder how disabled these people are as they would need to get off the boat with a rope in the first place.

 

Just now, Jerra said:

 

 

t

[Sailbadthesinner]

If you read the CRT article you will notice that it is intended for boaters with restricted mobility at accessible moorings. 

If you are concerned about the design there is nothing to stop you using a lighterman's hitch round the base.

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Because disabled people cant bend down to tie their ropes round them. I do wonder how disabled these people are as they would need to get off the boat with a rope in the first place.

Before I got my extended mooring pins, I got stuck once trying to get a hook off the piling, unable to move with a locked back. I had to stop a passing cyclist to straighten me up and pick up the hook and rope. And I'm not disabled.

But I can't see them being much use because of the anchoring problem - I remember pulling two ordinary ones out at Chester after they'd been recently installed, apparently with a dry concrete mix but, rather oddly, no water.

[Jerra]

17 minutes ago, Sailbadthesinner said:

If you read the CRT article you will notice that it is intended for boaters with restricted mobility at accessible moorings. 

If you are concerned about the design there is nothing to stop you using a lighterman's hitch round the base.

True, however, I suspect the arms sticking out will make it a bit more difficult.   Why are they there?  surely a tall conventional bollard would do the job just as well.

[nb Innisfree]

26 minutes ago, Sailbadthesinner said:

If you read the CRT article you will notice that it is intended for boaters with restricted mobility at accessible moorings. 

If you are concerned about the design there is nothing to stop you using a lighterman's hitch round the base.

 

 

I do wonder why boaters bother with knots on bollards instead of a lighterman's hitch, you don't even need to bend down, better still we had a dedicated rope with a simple loop on the end, life's complicated enough without wasting time and energy trying to undo tightened knots. 

Edited January 29 by nb Innisfree

[magnetman]

Not everyone is proficient with rope handling. I use the lightermans hitch on this situation but someone -will- wrap their rope around the top in a figure of 8 and if they get it wrong and it jams then out comes the bollard. 

 

these things have to be designed to deal with clueless people of which there arrr many. 

 

It is when someone uses such a bollard to strap a Boat from moving that the problem occurs. If these are for moorings which are not part of a stop start manoover like locking or moveable bridges then it is less of a problem. 

 

They look pretty terrible but thats common lots of things look terrible. They'd stick out like sort thumbs on such a well designed canal system. 

 

And I suppose if the moorings are newly installed with a single piece concrete edging then they could possibly just be bolted down. 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Not everyone is proficient with rope handling. I use the lightermans hitch on this situation but someone -will- wrap their rope around the top in a figure of 8 and if they get it wrong and it jams then out comes the bollard. 

 

these things have to be designed to deal with clueless people of which there arrr many. 

 

It is when someone uses such a bollard to strap a Boat from moving that the problem occurs. If these are for moorings which are not part of a stop start manoover like locking or moveable bridges then it is less of a problem. 

 

They look pretty terrible but thats common lots of things look terrible. They'd stick out like sort thumbs on such a well designed canal system. 

 

The article did say they were for accessible moorings, not strapping a boat to a halt... 😉

 

Plenty of the usual CART-bashing from people seemingly unable to read or try and understand why these might actually be useful for people less able than themselves, not exactly unsurprising... 😞

Edited January 29 by IanD

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Before I got my extended mooring pins, I got stuck once trying to get a hook off the piling, unable to move with a locked back. I had to stop a passing cyclist to straighten me up and pick up the hook and rope. And I'm not disabled.

But I can't see them being much use because of the anchoring problem - I remember pulling two ordinary ones out at Chester after they'd been recently installed, apparently with a dry concrete mix but, rather oddly, no water.

Bit like this one at Litherland. Crt guy's said it was down for replacing at least 6 months before this happened. 

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

The article did say they were for accessible moorings, not strapping a boat to a halt... 😉

 

Plenty of the usual CART-bashing from people seemingly unable to read or try and understand why these might actually be useful for people less able than themselves, not exactly unsurprising... 😞

I hadn't noticed anybody bashing CRT.  I do notice a number querying the design of the bollard which isn't CRT bashing.

 

I have said (and I have and will in the future need to use accessible moorings for crew members) why are there the cross pieces they seem totally useless to me.  I note nobody has suggested why they are necessary.

 

I certainly don't need them neither would my disabled crew, so can somebody explain why people with difficulties need anything other than a taller bollard (with its attendant problems)

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I hadn't noticed anybody bashing CRT.  I do notice a number querying the design of the bollard which isn't CRT bashing.

 

I have said (and I have and will in the future need to use accessible moorings for crew members) why are there the cross pieces they seem totally useless to me.  I note nobody has suggested why they are necessary.

 

I certainly don't need them neither would my disabled crew, so can somebody explain why people with difficulties need anything other than a taller bollard (with its attendant problems)

 

You mean, implying CART haven't thought that such a bollard would be more difficult to anchor when this is specifically pointed out in the article? Or that it'll be pulled out when strapping a boat to a stop at a lock/bridge when the article specifically said they were intended for use at accessible moorings?

 

Similarly I somehow doubt they'd have put the cross-pieces there without a good reason, I'd have thought this would be to keep the rope at the top and stop it slipping down out of reach if it can't be tied firmly round the bollard -- which is presumably possible if a boater has either mobility or hand problems to tie/pull tight knots, for example arthritis. But then I didn't design it, so that's just *my* assumption... 😉

 

There seems to be an assumption by some CWDF posters that anyone proposing anything new or different from "the good old way of doing things" -- especially CART -- is an idiot who hasn't thought for a moment about the potential disadvantages of what they're proposing, and they then gleefully point out the blindingly obvious -- in this case, so obvious that it was even in the article, had they bothered to read it.

 

If that's not CART-bashing, it looks remarkably like it... 😉

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

I do wonder why boaters bother with knots on bollards instead of a lighterman's hitch, you don't even need to bend down, better still we had a dedicated rope with a simple loop on the end, life's complicated enough without wasting time and energy trying to undo tightened knots. 

I keep trying to do a lightermans hitch, and, as I consistently fail and it comes loose, go back to the knot someone showed me thirty years ago, which I understand. Dunno what it is, but there's this loop*... life's too short to be spent learning knots I don't need. I've got books to read and trombones to play.

*ETA it's rock solid and undoes easy.

Edited January 29 by Arthur Marshall

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Similarly I somehow doubt they'd have put the cross-pieces there without a good reason,

I am waiting for a definitive answer as to the good reason.

1 minute ago, IanD said:

I'd have thought this would be to keep the rope at the top and stop it slipping down out of reach if it can't be tied firmly round the bollard

A good suggestion but why two lots.

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

 

-- which is presumably possible if a boater has either mobility or hand problems to tie/pull tight knots, for example arthritis.

I have arthritis and I would find them a nuisance when tying a lighterman's.

 

Do people with arthritis need accessible moorings?   Both crew members I have had who needed accessible moorings had walking problems and used wheelchairs for distances over a few yards.

 

Come to think of it how many people who need accessible mooring don't have able bodied crew doing the mooring

1 minute ago, IanD said:

But then I didn't design it, so that's just *my* assumption... 😉

 

There seems to be an assumption by some CWDF posters that anyone proposing anything new or different from "the good old way of doing things" -- especially CART -- is an idiot who hasn't thought for a moment about the potential disadvantages of what they're proposing, and they then gleefully point out the blindingly obvious -- in this case, so obvious that it was even in the article, had they bothered to read it.

 

If that's not CART-bashing, it looks remarkably like it... 😉

 

See above which I feel covers the points.  Now you mention it I don't think it has been thought through.  I think it has been a case of what can we do to make accessible moorings better.  Then desperation to find a project hasn't consulted those who need (N.B. I say need as I have seen boats moored on accessible moorings that have been seen elsewhere using ordinary moorings with no problems) them as to what is actually needed.

 

I wasn't thinking of CRT bashing before merely querying what i thought was bad design but your mention makes me think perhaps CRT deserve in this case a bit of a bashing.