Zibro Ethanol fuel fire.........not for boating

[LEO]

I have a garden Summerhouse, obviously cold this weather, I ideally I would like to install a small wood-burning stove, not possible at the moment, electricity is not connected, I have been looking at a Zibro Ethanol stove, available through  Wayfair or Amazon. The Amazon one seems to be a Paraffin model where as Wayfair lists Ethanol as the fuel source. Experience with Paraffin is smell and condensation. Ethanol seems to be like meths, both list a flue as 'not required'.

Has any body got any experience of using these fires.......TIA.

 

Edited January 16 by LEO

[Tony Brooks]

I think ethanol is still a hydrocarbon and when you burn anything containing hydrogen it will still make twice as much water vapour as the fuel burned, so without a flue you will still get condensation, but the smell will be different.

[Alan de Enfield]

I have ethanol burners as a camping stove - there is mo smell.

It does not produce as much heat as gas or diesel/petrol but 'almost' gets water to a boil.

 

Ethanol is used for 'warmers' (chafer dishes) in restaurants (to keep your meal warm) so any smell is not thought to be 'overpowering', it is also used in flats that have a 'fire' in the middle of a room (or between two rooms with no wall) to give the idea of a 'flickering fire' when there is no chimney.

 

 

And my camping stove ...................

 

 

 

 

 

They do not generate smoke, ash, soot or residue and ethanol fires burn odourless. The only combustion product is carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapour in the same amounts as we exhale.

 

 

What does an ethanol fireplace bring to a living space?

Any living space can include an open fireplace design now that ethanol fireplaces are widely available and accepted as an effective source of heat. Whether you are building, renovating or renting, you can introduce an open flame appliance at any time.

 

e-NRG | Common Questions About Ethanol Biofuel

Edited January 16 by Alan de Enfield

[Col_T]

I have used bio-ethanol as the fuel for Gauge 1 locos - it works ok but, used indoors, smells just as bad a meths!

[pete.i]

What does an ethanol fireplace bring to a living space?

Any living space can include an open fireplace design now that ethanol fireplaces are widely available and accepted as an effective source of heat. Whether you are building, renovating or renting, you can introduce an open flame appliance at any time.

 

I thought about one of these in the house we have just moved to. We have no chimney and there was a very old gas fire with an external flue which looked ugly. So I had all that ripped out with the idea that one of these flickering ethanol fire things which didn't need a chimney would be a good idea. problem was they gave out very little heat. Okay a lack of heat wasn't particularly a problem as we have central heating but they didn't look good in my opinion so we settled for an electric jobby with a flickering flame effect that was oodles cheaper, didn't need to be installed by some bod with a bit of paper and gave a decent amount of heat when switched on.

[FredDrift]

Ethanol is relatively expensive as a space heating fuel.  We briefly considered one for our house with it living room fireplace now on an inside wall following the addition of an extension.  We went all flickery flames with electric which only use for the flickery flames.

 

For our summer house, I'd probably consider one of the butane Calor heaters...  they range from £95 for the 'mini' up to £400 for the 'Provence' stove like models.

 

https://www.calorgas-heaters.co.uk/12-calor-gas-heaters

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, FredDrift said:

For our summer house, I'd probably consider one of the butane Calor heaters...  they range from £95 for the 'mini' up to £400 for the 'Provence' stove like models.

 

https://www.calorgas-heaters.co.uk/12-calor-gas-heaters

 

You may consider that for a house but they are not allowed on boats subject to the BSS.

[LEO]

Thanks for all the replies, still thinking about the ethanol, use will not be great as the building is mainly used as a workshop. Indoors we went for a 'flickering flame' 'leecky' job but the ones my folks had years ago were better, the spinner creating the flame effect worked off convected heat from an electric light bulb, great, no noise, now the flicker is produced by a transformer and motor which produces an annoying, slight 'buzz' - some even have a smoke effect by dripping water onto a heated plate of metal - we have one...but it is little used, due to the buzz.

Calor is interesting and I may go down that route, but the Company is another word for excrement with me at the moment as I use small bottles on the boat and found the uncertainty of continuing supply from them, annoying as the tug style creates difficulty with storage and use of tall bottles, I see the range has recently changed............

Hope all well Pete, started speaking Welsh yet?

Alan - what goes around etc, like the small Ethanol camping stove, takes me back to journeys with my folks in the early 50's, they had a large biscuit tin with a similar meths burner which boiled up a kettle, worked well, to put it out they tipped the lid on the meths burner..........

Edited January 16 by LEO
Add info..

[MtB]

44 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You may consider that for a house but they are not allowed on boats subject to the BSS.

 

Shouldn't be allowed in houses either. Masses of condensation and the Calor gas bottle being 3" from the red hot flame seems intuitively dangerous. 

 

 

[FredDrift]

47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You may consider that for a house but they are not allowed on boats subject to the BSS.

 

The OP refered specifically to a 'summer house' rather than a boat in his thread entitled,

'Zibro Ethanol fuel fire.........not for boating'

 

2 hours ago, LEO said:

I have a garden Summerhouse, obviously cold this weather, I ideally I would like to install a small wood-burning stove, not possible at the moment, electricity is not connected, I have been looking at a Zibro Ethanol stove, available through  Wayfair or Amazon.

I'm guessing that by no stretch of the imagination would anybody consider a summerhouse to be a boat or a boat subject to the BSS and thus, in the context of the thread title and the opening post...

 

1 hour ago, FredDrift said:

For our summer house, I'd probably consider one of the butane Calor heaters...

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, FredDrift said:

The OP refered specifically to a 'summer house' rather than a boat in his thread entitled,

 

I know, and agree with you, but remember, in a few years time when a newby comes onto a boating forum looking for advice they may not expect (or read the whole title) advice on how to heat a Summerhouse.

 

You need to allow for the lowest common denominator and point out that this is not suitable (or 'legal') for use on a boat.

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, LEO said:

Has any body got any experience of using these fires.......TIA.

 

 

Yes. They're very good and I used to use one on my boat when it wasn't cold enough to light the solid fuel stove. Although everyone says they will produce condensation I never found that to be the case. I'm not saying they don't produce water vapour but condensation was never an issue on my boat when I used it.

 

The only reason I got rid of it was because on start up and shut down it gives off smelly fumes for a short time so not ideal for a living space.

[Bee]

I would not use anything like these unless there was some sort of chimney to the outside. 

[LEO]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I know, and agree with you, but remember, in a few years time when a newby comes onto a boating forum looking for advice they may not expect (or read the whole title) advice on how to heat a Summerhouse.

 

You need to allow for the lowest common denominator and point out that this is not suitable (or 'legal') for use on a boat.

Actually I do tend to agree with you...........It's worth covering every angle, and I agree with allowing for the 'LCDOM...' I was often asked for advice informally, I stopped giving it after a ' Clever Dick Bounce back'........thus I asked 'for a summerhouse' - these units are cheap, somebody might try to install one on a boat...

A late friend was a highly qualified gas engineer and swapped tales of gas installations on boats......some were frightening......

I am packing up boating soon, (started 1975) and will miss lighting the stove, I think I will look for a small stove and install that, with suitable flue and fire precautions, my hobby, woodworking produces offcuts. Happy Days........thanks for all the advice - how soon will I need a BSC for my summerhouse?..

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, LEO said:

...... how soon will I need a BSC for my summerhouse?..

 

 

Put it on tidal / coastal waters,  NO BSS, NO insurance and NO C&RT licence fees.

[jonathanA]

20 hours ago, LEO said:

I am packing up boating soon, (started 1975) and will miss lighting the stove, I think I will look for a small stove and install that, with suitable flue and fire precautions, my hobby, woodworking produces offcuts. Happy Days........thanks for all the advice - how soon will I need a BSC for my summerhouse?..

in some ways you already do - all right stretching the point a bit (lot) but if you were installing the stove in a living area it would need 'Hetas' for gods sake... 

 

i think you will be ok so long as you don't plan to sleep in your summer house....

 

P.S  I would consider one of those chinese diesel heaters. not hard to feed the exhaust out through the side of the shed, or as I intend to do, stick the heater outside (in a lean to/shelter) and duct the warm air in to where its wanted. 

Edited January 17 by jonathanA
add diesel heater

[Ken X]

One thing which others may be able to confirm or otherwise. 

 

Many years ago I had a mate who ran a grasstrack bike and sidecar.  I seem to recall this ran on Ethanol or a derivative and occasionally caught fire.  The problem was the fuel burnt with a clear flame so the first warning we had was when things started getting hot.  The bizarre sight then ensued of us frantically beating out an invisible fire.

 

Might be something to consider if Ethanol is used as a fuel.

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, Ken X said:

One thing which others may be able to confirm or otherwise. 

 

Many years ago I had a mate who ran a grasstrack bike and sidecar.  I seem to recall this ran on Ethanol or a derivative and occasionally caught fire.  The problem was the fuel burnt with a clear flame so the first warning we had was when things started getting hot.  The bizarre sight then ensued of us frantically beating out an invisible fire.

 

Might be something to consider if Ethanol is used as a fuel.

Methanol I reckon.

[Ken X]

4 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Methanol I reckon.

Could well have been, we are talking 50 yrs ago now but the memories still linger🙂.  Would Ethanol burn with a coloured flame?

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, Ken X said:

Could well have been, we are talking 50 yrs ago now but the memories still linger🙂.  Would Ethanol burn with a coloured flame?

 

No, you cannot see the flame (on the Ethanol chafing tins' you need to put your hand close to feel if there is any heat).

[cuthound]

5 hours ago, Ken X said:

One thing which others may be able to confirm or otherwise. 

 

Many years ago I had a mate who ran a grasstrack bike and sidecar.  I seem to recall this ran on Ethanol or a derivative and occasionally caught fire.  The problem was the fuel burnt with a clear flame so the first warning we had was when things started getting hot.  The bizarre sight then ensued of us frantically beating out an invisible fire.

 

Might be something to consider if Ethanol is used as a fuel.

 

I remember watching a saloon car race at Goodwood many years ago. A car fuelled with ethanol crashed and caught fire. The driver, Peter Proctor,  got out and began rolling about on the grass. It was only when the grass began to burn with visible flames that the marshalls used their fire extinguishers on him.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Procter

[smiler]

On 16/01/2024 at 10:32, LEO said:

I have a garden Summerhouse, obviously cold this weather, I ideally I would like to install a small wood-burning stove, not possible at the moment, electricity is not connected, I have been looking at a Zibro Ethanol stove, available through  Wayfair or Amazon. The Amazon one seems to be a Paraffin model where as Wayfair lists Ethanol as the fuel source. Experience with Paraffin is smell and condensation. Ethanol seems to be like meths, both list a flue as 'not required'.

Has any body got any experience of using these fires.......TIA.

 

I use the same heater (paraffin) in my summer house without problems. You get a slight whiff when lighting it - after that no smell at all. I leave a small window open and have 2 CO meters and sleep occasionally there.

I get my fuel from Belgium as it's a lot cheaper than here in The Netherlands. The fuel is called petroleum C here which is a bit more refined compared to paraffin. I used to use a calor gas fire but the Zibro works out much cheaper in fuel.

With adequate ventilation - no condensation at all.

 

[LEO]

On 18/01/2024 at 02:33, smiler said:

I use the same heater (paraffin) in my summer house without problems. You get a slight whiff when lighting it - after that no smell at all. I leave a small window open and have 2 CO meters and sleep occasionally there.

I get my fuel from Belgium as it's a lot cheaper than here in The Netherlands. The fuel is called petroleum C here which is a bit more refined compared to paraffin. I used to use a calor gas fire but the Zibro works out much cheaper in fuel.

With adequate ventilation - no condensation at all.

 

Thanks for that information, I may follow it up, the stove is for occasional use only, and whilst a small woodburner would be the preferred choice is it a bit of an 'overkill' solution.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

On 16/01/2024 at 15:45, LEO said:

how soon will I need a BSC for my summerhouse?..

Depends on the rate the polar ice caps melt and what altitude your summer house is at. 😀

[LEO]

3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Depends on the rate the polar ice caps melt and what altitude your summer house is at. 😀

Not sure about the icecaps, summerhouse about 425 above sea level..........