Enclosed bow

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Is that an opinion or a fact?

Definitely a fact... 😉

[doratheexplorer]

15 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If some one needs to get to the bow when cruising, their only option is down the gunwales, rather than through the boat. Riskier, especially if they are rushing to say deploy an anchor, or handle a rope before a current takes control.

Secondary, it is nice to have an alternative place to sit outside, especially on the move, which you won't get without an exit to a bow area.

In an emergency, for example a fire, where the stern is blocked by flame/smoke, a bow door is easier to get out of than an emergency hatch, or worse, nothing at all.

I always use the gunwales to get to the bow while cruising.  Through the boat takes longer, has more things in the way and means you need to leave the doors open which isn't great in winter.  I do have proper roof rails on my boat though, so moving quickly down the gunwales is no problem.  I've never used my well-deck to sit out in because I have a nicer space at the stern and I usually sit on chairs on the towpath anyway.  In common with 99% of narrowboaters, I've never deployed an anchor, and if I did I'd go via the gunwales anyway. 

 

Enclosing the well deck on my boat would make a lot of sense to me.  I could enlarge my bedroom, create much better storage than my well deck offers.  Possibly make a "sort of" office area with a window looking forwards.

[magnetman]

I think everyone already knows that people tend to like different things. 

 

if this was not the case everyone would be the same and have the same things. 

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

28 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Yes, because that's where they are, and it's easier dropping off right next to the steerer than 60' away -- and I'd usually step off with the centre line at the same time.

 

 

This is exactly what I do on the occassions I have a crew.

[IanD]

25 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I always use the gunwales to get to the bow while cruising.  Through the boat takes longer, has more things in the way and means you need to leave the doors open which isn't great in winter.  I do have proper roof rails on my boat though, so moving quickly down the gunwales is no problem.  I've never used my well-deck to sit out in because I have a nicer space at the stern and I usually sit on chairs on the towpath anyway.  In common with 99% of narrowboaters, I've never deployed an anchor, and if I did I'd go via the gunwales anyway. 

 

Enclosing the well deck on my boat would make a lot of sense to me.  I could enlarge my bedroom, create much better storage than my well deck offers.  Possibly make a "sort of" office area with a window looking forwards.

 

Ditto about getting to the bow -- especially if "things in the way" inside the boat include people and closed doors, possibly locked if there's someone having a shower in a walk-through bathroom. Along the gunwale is quick, of course you have to take care and always have at least one hand on the handrail, but at least you *know* you'll be there in a few seconds -- and can also jump off part-way along if the bank is close enough.

 

Others may prefer going through the boat, and that's fine too, especially if an open-plan internal layout makes this easier... 🙂

 

Back to the OPs question, there's another advantage to having an enclosed bow with no well deck or doors -- it's waterproof. Which is *really* useful when you're going up a lock with water either cascading over the top gates or fountaining from a leak and where you can't get the bows clear of this. This has already proved useful on several occasions, when even the bow locker stayed dry though there was an absolute torrent of water landing on the bows. I expect this would also be useful if I even wanted to do something silly like crossing the Wash... 😉

 

With a well deck in the past in similar circumstances (the Salterhebble Fountain...) when the drain holes just couldn't cope with the water influx, as the well deck filled up I ended up with water inside the boat via the (closed) front doors.

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[Jon57]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Ditto about getting to the bow -- especially if "things in the way" inside the boat include people and closed doors, possibly locked if there's someone having a shower in a walk-through bathroom. Along the gunwale is quick, of course you have to take care and always have at least one hand on the handrail, but at least you *know* you'll be there in a few seconds -- and can also jump off part-way along if the bank is close enough.

 

Others may prefer going through the boat, and that's fine too, especially if an open-plan internal layout makes this easier... 🙂

I can do all 4.ways with no problems, bow, stern, gunnels and roof. Could even do a combination of all if I had to including 1 of the 4 side hatches. Might give it a try when next out over the Christmas break if the river doesn't go into flood again 🎄🎅😢

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

I can do all 4.ways with no problems, bow, stern, gunnels and roof. Could even do a combination of all if I had to including 1 of the 4 side hatches. Might give it a try when next out over the Christmas break if the river doesn't go into flood again 🎄🎅😢

Running along the roof is easy on mine too, since it's not covered with obstructions like dog/pigeon boxes, chimneys, flower baskets, water cans/mops, gangplanks, boathooks, long shafts, coal, wood, wheelbarrow, bicycle, traffic cones... 😉

[Jen-in-Wellies]

11 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

I can do all 4.ways with no problems, bow, stern, gunnels and roof. Could even do a combination of all if I had to including 1 of the 4 side hatches. Might give it a try when next out over the Christmas break if the river doesn't go into flood again 🎄🎅😢

If the river does go in to flood, you could try scuba diving off the back, swimming underneath and climbing out at the bow for five ways! 😀

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Running along the roof is easy on mine too, since it's not covered with obstructions like dog/pigeon boxes, chimneys, flower baskets, water cans/mops, gangplanks, boathooks, long shafts, coal, wood, wheelbarrow, bicycle, traffic cones... 😉

Many of those items are indeed optional, but are you saying you have none of them? Or do you store them elsewhere?

Mind you, if I had invested a small fortune on stick down solar panels, I'm not sure I would ever want to run, or even tip toe gently, on them.

[doratheexplorer]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

Running along the roof is easy on mine too, since it's not covered with obstructions like dog/pigeon boxes, chimneys, flower baskets, water cans/mops, gangplanks, boathooks, long shafts, coal, wood, wheelbarrow, bicycle, traffic cones... 😉

Those aren't proper handrails.

[Jon57]

15 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If the river does go in to flood, you could try scuba diving off the back, swimming underneath and climbing out at the bow for five ways! 😀

Could do but the ladder is on the stern fender 😂

16 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If the river does go in to flood, you could try scuba diving off the back, swimming underneath and climbing out at the bow for five ways! 😀

Could leave the weedhatch open and slip into the boat that way. Last time I tried that there was a mattress in the way 

[magnetman]

19 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If the river does go in to flood, you could try scuba diving off the back, swimming underneath and climbing out at the bow for five ways! 😀

 

1 man drone could work here. 

13 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Those aren't proper handrails.

Easy to lose grip on cant handrails.

 

I cant hold it !

[mrsmelly]

You can argue boat style points forever. It's personal choice. For me though an enclosed front end is a massive no no for many reasons but others like them or think they do? To be honest going from a fairly short 57 footer to a minute below fifty foot would not be my choice. Longer boats whilst making life way more comfortable also handle much better than short. For instance my first 56 foot Swan line with fairly shallow draught blew all over the place at the other end my 70 foot very heavy Hudson was rock steady. Spread the xtra cost of the longer boat over the 12 months and take the xtra comfort in to play and the cost is relatively little. As for the hospital, the NHS is superb and will accommodate your movement whenever possible 👍

[IanD]

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Many of those items are indeed optional, but are you saying you have none of them? Or do you store them elsewhere?

Mind you, if I had invested a small fortune on stick down solar panels, I'm not sure I would ever want to run, or even tip toe gently, on them.

I've got a telescopic boathook and a telescopic pet ramp instead of a gangplank (much more stable!), both of which live just inside the stern doors, and the folding bike lives in the locker that's also the steerer's seat.

 

Those solar panels are not the fragile flexible ones, they're semi-rigid (with a fibreglass/aluminium backing plate) which are vacuum-bonded onto the steel roof and are intended to be walked on (not in stiletto heels or hobnailed boots, obviously!), there's no significant flexure so they don't crack or suffer any damage as a result.

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[Jon57]

15 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

The problem with that access is that it leads onto a small gloss-painted deck area with no raised edge and not much to hold on to. The distance from the edge of the deck to the bank is such that you could easily miss your footing, especially if the bank edge is poor. Sometimes ideal really!

Not only that. Cascading lock water from badly fitting head gates entering the ugly air vents and wetting the bed. 😭

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 (not in stiletto heels or hobnailed boots, obviously!), 

If you're not wearing hobnail boots you are not a proper boater. 

[Jon57]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you're not wearing hobnail boots you are not a proper boater. 

Don't forget the NCB donkey jacket. I wouldn't like to walk on IanD roof. Just the thought of the cost of them panels would make my eye's bleed. Better to just get smoke in my eye's 🙄

[magnetman]

Oh yes the donkey jackets. Don't see them much these days maybe they are too valuable.  

[cuthound]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Oh yes the donkey jackets. Don't see them much these days maybe they are too valuable.  

 

Probably because most of the donkeys are in sanctuaries these day...

 

[magnetman]

Yes I suppose animal cruelty only goes so far. Apparently Mink coats are awkward to find too. 

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Don't forget the NCB donkey jacket. I wouldn't like to walk on IanD roof. Just the thought of the cost of them panels would make my eye's bleed. Better to just get smoke in my eye's 🙄

I thought the only acceptable garb was corduroys, collarless shirt, a waistcoat, neckerchief, and a flat cap?

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

I thought the only acceptable garb was corduroys, collarless shirt, a waistcoat, neckerchief, and a flat cap?

No thats steamroller drivers. 

 

I used to do narrow boating with suede waistcoat and a trilby. 

[frangar]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

I'll just put this up so people can post the usual "you're-wrong-I'm-right" comments then... 😉

 

(because every boat layout has pros and cons, and different people prefer different things -- and yes, there are side doors at the front on the starboard side...)

 

 

The trouble with having the forward exit as side doors rather than the bow is life can get a bit tricky if you have an emergency in a narrow lock or indeed sharing with another boat in a wide lock and need to exit the boat by the bow.....Canaltime said they had a roof light to solve such issues which was great if you could levitate to leave through it.....

[Captain Pegg]

The original question by @David Mackabout handling of shorter boats was very valid but I think about 80% of all narrowboats fall within a relatively small band of variance. There’s certainly nothing that should make anyone used to either a short or long boat unduly worry about helming the other in general.

 

Draught and weight are as much significant factors as length, obviously they are all linked. The most notable feature of short boats is that they don’t hold their alignment in the water as well as longer boats. Put a big heavy craft like a historic into hard reverse and it’ll likely stay pretty straight in the channel. Do that with a short craft - particularly one with a relatively large prop - and it’ll likely try and spin around in the channel. Using hard reverse, and even reversing in general, may be best avoided. A bigger prop might come with a bigger rudder and that will mean you can’t loose the tiller for even a nano-second without risk of heading for the bushes.
 

Those day boats are very light having little fixed equipment on board and also probably have tiny rudders. Stand the crew on the back deck and the front end is as light as a feather. Then add the other obvious factors mentioned above.
 

As for bows I find it amazing how difficult it is to access the front t-stud on the majority of boats. Not necessarily because of enclosed bows - which aren’t that uncommon - but cratch covers.

[magnetman]

There is an argument for also having rope attachment points at the start of the foredeck. I used to lead a rope through the well deck drain holes as it was a convenient height to attach to the hook when mooring to piling. 

 

I would be tempted to fit a 1 inch diameter vertical bar just forward of the cabin first as a hand hold secondly as a mooring aid. Would need to be properly secured top and bottom and preferably go through the deck to the base plate for strength. 

 

I do wonder if the standard tee stud on a working boat was accessed by climbing onto the foredeck. It seems more likely one would arrange things so that this was not necessary perhaps putting a butterfly hitch in the rope and tying it up while on the bank. 

 

Of course the back end line is handy on a working boat.

Edited December 14, 2023 by magnetman