Enclosed bow

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Beautiful boat!

Thank you, I'm very happy with it. FYI the bow cabin and part of the space underneath it are bedroom clothes storage, basically a big chest of drawers more than 3' deep, with a stainless steel water tank underneath -- makes good use of the space and gains a couple of feet extra interior space. There's a bow locker in front of this with BT/ballast at the bottom and storage for anchor/hose reels/whatever above it.

 

It does mean there's no well deck to sit in at the bow (though you can sit on the bow cabin if you really want to) so all the "outside" space is at the stern, which has enough comfortable seats and no engine noise to need to escape from (boat is electric/hybrid) -- which I find more sociable for the steerer anyway, hence also the reverse layout. All a matter of preference... 😉

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[Jon57]

13 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If some one needs to get to the bow when cruising, their only option is down the gunwales, rather than through the boat. Riskier, especially if they are rushing to say deploy an anchor, or handle a rope before a current takes control.

Secondary, it is nice to have an alternative place to sit outside, especially on the move, which you won't get without an exit to a bow area.

In an emergency, for example a fire, where the stern is blocked by flame/smoke, a bow door is easier to get out of than an emergency hatch, or worse, nothing at all.

This is what I believe to be the ideal solution. Other views are welcome. But for me this is just perfect.

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Again I have not steered less than 57ft, I see the day boats weaving about at will I assumed that was ease of steering not instability.  Seriously why would a short boat not be easier to handle?  Again serious question.

 

Small boats respond much quicker than a longer boat and require much more precise use of the throttle and rudder.

A huge, 380 metre long, super-tanker can take up to 5 miles to turn, a 30 foot boat can turn pretty much in its own length.

 

Do you tow a trailer (obviously not with a boat) ?

Have you tried reversing with a (say) 4 foot long camping trailer, and compare that to a 20 foot caravan (or long trailer)

It is almost impossible to reverse with a small trailer as it 'all happens so fast' that you cannot make corrections in time.

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, agg221 said:

We have a similar arrangement on ours, albeit with a tug deck and we have side bench seats at the bow which extend under the deck to form berths so the walkway to the front doors is fully functional. We have steps up and a sliding hatch which all works fine.

 

Alec

 

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Removed - Double post due to slow Internet.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

Just now, Jon57 said:

This is what I believe to be the ideal solution. Other views are welcome. But for me this is just perfect.

 

As you say, perfect for you, while being a complete no-no for some (including me) -- and I'm sure the reverse applies to my boat 🙂

 

It's why asking people for their opinions on things like boat layout is often unhelpful unless you happen to have exactly the same needs and preferences as them, you need to figure out what *you* want from a boat.

[Jon57]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

As you say, perfect for you, while being a complete no-no for some (including me) -- and I'm sure the reverse applies to my boat 🙂

 

It's why asking people for their opinions on things like boat layout is often unhelpful unless you happen to have exactly the same needs and preferences as them, you need to figure out what *you* want from a boat.

Absolutely. A boat not a caravan every time for me. I even carry a spare mattress for guest to sleep on the deck if they so wish making it I six berth 2 dog boat.🐕🤣🤣🤣😜👍

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

Absolutely. A boat not a caravan every time for me. I even carry a spare mattress for guest to sleep on the deck if they so wish making it I six berth 2 dog boat.🐕🤣🤣🤣😜👍

That'll be four berths plus two dogs then, will it? 😉

[Jon57]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

That'll be four berths plus two dogs then, will it? 😉

6 berth. 4 berth in the boat, 2 or even more on the deck if they like to sleep under the stars. Plus the dogs. What’s not to like about that. Gets a bit cramped using the bath.🤣

[magnetman]

Looks great to me and the right sort of dogs. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

6 berth. 4 berth in the boat, 2 or even more on the deck if they like to sleep under the stars. Plus the dogs. What’s not to like about that. Gets a bit cramped using the bath.🤣

Can't someone sleep in the bath? 😉

[magnetman]

Further forward looks a bit Saluki. 

[Jon57]

Just now, IanD said:

Can't someone sleep in the bath? 😉

Only when I move the coal sacks.🤣 7 berth then.

[Bromleyxphil]

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Small boats respond much quicker than a longer boat and require much more precise use of the throttle and rudder.

A huge, 380 metre long, super-tanker can take up to 5 miles to turn, a 30 foot boat can turn pretty much in its own length.

 

Do you tow a trailer (obviously not with a boat) ?

Have you tried reversing with a (say) 4 foot long camping trailer, and compare that to a 20 foot caravan (or long trailer)

It is almost impossible to reverse with a small trailer as it 'all happens so fast' that you cannot make corrections in time.

I have reversed both in my time.  Question is how small is a 45’ boat?  Closer to the 4’trailer or 20’ caravan.  To my mind 45’ still represents a heavy bit of metal, can’t see it spinning about like a top, but I haven’t had the experience.

Getting to see some great boat pictures on this thread.  Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

Somewhere in between.

 

It will be less 'twitchy' than a 30 foot boat, but more twitchy than a 57 foot boat.

 

If I lost concentration of let go of the tiller my 30 foot NB it would heading for the bank in milliseconds, with my 45 foot I could let go of the tiller lean forward and pick up a mug of tea before it veered towards the bank.

On a 70 footer I have set it up on a long straight, let go, gone below, come back up and its still heading as I left it.

 

Each boat will also vary from another of the same size due to the rudder size and set up, the prop walk, shape and size of the swims etc.

 

You learn to live with 'however your boat handles'.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Somewhere in between.

 

It will be less 'twitchy' than a 30 foot boat, but more twitchy than a 57 foot boat.

 

If I lost concentration of let go of the tiller my 30 foot NB it would heading for the bank in milliseconds, with my 45 foot I could let go of the tiller lean forward and pick up a mug of tea before it veered towards the bank.

On a 70 footer I have set it up on a long straight, let go, gone below, come back up and its still heading as I left it.

 

Each boat will also vary from another of the same size due to the rudder size and set up, the prop walk, shape and size of the swims etc.

 

You learn to live with 'however your boat handles'.

 

It's easier to have a well-shaped hull with decent swims at both ends in a longer boat, short boats tend to be "blunter" to try and maximise scarce internal space, and this often makes handling (and wake/wash) worse.

[Lady M]

Some of it will, I believe, be down to the underwater shape of the boat.  So always best to have a test drive as part of a purchase process.  My 25ft boat handled far worse than my 20ft one, the latter had a slightly V-hull and very long swims; the base plate was shaped like an eye.  I suggest the OP look at boats around 50ft long, and strongly recommend having a fixed main berth.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Lady M
Thought of another point.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

I'll just put this up so people can post the usual "you're-wrong-I'm-right" comments then... 😉

 

Not that you would ever do that of course! 🤣

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

I'll just put this up so people can post the usual "you're-wrong-I'm-right" comments then... 😉

 

(because every boat layout has pros and cons, and different people prefer different things -- and yes, there are side doors at the front on the starboard side...)

 

 

 

Just curious Ian, do you set people off at the stern when you come up to locks? I much prefer to set off from the bow, especially as it’s less critical in canal depth than the stern? (Then pull out and hover in the middle of the canal waiting) 
 

I do like being able to swiftly get to the bow, we use it as a lookout too. I guess you can have a camera for that though. 😔
 

The other time we appreciate the bow ease of access is when pushing logs/bits of rubbish/ mattresses out of the way with our long shaft which I know you don’t have. 
 

As you say it’s about what suits the individual but we love our well deck and wouldn’t be without it especially eating late on a chilly night with the sun setting cratch cover down and paraffin lamp lit, firmly attached on. 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Not that you would ever do that of course! 🤣

Not when opinions are concerned as opposed to facts -- unlike some I *always* point out that different people have different needs and one size doesn't fit all... 😉

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Just curious Ian, do you set people off at the stern when you come up to locks? I much prefer to set off from the bow, especially as it’s less critical in canal depth than the stern? (Then pull out and hover in the middle of the canal waiting) 
 

I do like being able to swiftly get to the bow, we use it as a lookout too. I guess you can have a camera for that though. 😔
 

The other time we appreciate the bow ease of access is when pushing logs/bits of rubbish/ mattresses out of the way with our long shaft which I know you don’t have. 
 

As you say it’s about what suits the individual but we love our well deck and wouldn’t be without it especially eating late on a chilly night with the sun setting cratch cover down and paraffin lamp lit, firmly attached on. 

Schilling rudder innit. 

 

I always preferred a front deck although did rather like walking down the top plank I made on the horseboat. That was a good way to get from one end to the other on a narrow Boat. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Again I have not steered less than 57ft, I see the day boats weaving about at will I assumed that was ease of steering not instability.  Seriously why would a short boat not be easier to handle?  Again serious question.

As others have said, shorter boats are generally much more twitchy. Which means you need concentration on your steering all of the time if you are not to end up heading for the bank. Which in turn makes it more tiring, especially on a long day's boating.

The other side of the coin is that when the boat does go off course it responds quicker to the tiller. But do you want to cruise serenely down the middle of the canal in some style, or do you want to zig zig your way, constantly engaging in corrective actions?

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Just curious Ian, do you set people off at the stern when you come up to locks? I much prefer to set off from the bow, especially as it’s less critical in canal depth than the stern? (Then pull out and hover in the middle of the canal waiting) 
 

I do like being able to swiftly get to the bow, we use it as a lookout too. I guess you can have a camera for that though. 😔
 

The other time we appreciate the bow ease of access is when pushing logs/bits of rubbish/ mattresses out of the way with our long shaft which I know you don’t have. 
 

As you say it’s about what suits the individual but we love our well deck and wouldn’t be without it especially eating late on a chilly night with the sun setting cratch cover down and paraffin lamp lit, firmly attached on. 

 

Yes, because that's where they are, and it's easier dropping off right next to the steerer than 60' away -- and I'd usually step off with the centre line at the same time.

 

There are disadvantages to any layout including mine, as has been repeatedly pointed out -- which is what gets annoying when the same things are trotted out time after time as if they're new and I'm an idiot for not having thought of them. You just have to choose what you think is best for you, which is what I did (and I'm sure you did), taking the pros and cons into account -- and these will be different for different people, depending on what their priorities are. My boat and @Jon57 are about as diametrically opposite as you could get in a narrowboat, but neither is "right" or "wrong" for everyone.

 

Some people like you love well decks (and cratch covers, and pram hoods), I've found them mostly a useless waste of space (except for getting away from engine noise...) and think cratch covers (and pram hoods) look like a horrible bodge, and both opposing opinions are perfectly valid. If everyone had the same opinion the world would be a pretty boring place... 😉

Edited December 14, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

I did a lot of boating in a 30ft narrow followed by a lot more boating in a 55ft narrow and overall I think the 55ft was more tiring. The 30ft was easy and I don't recall any problems keeping it straight. In terms of ideal size I think if I were doing it again I would go for around 47ft6 and get a good hull shape. 

 

 

[Tacet]

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

Not when opinions are concerned as opposed to facts -- unlike some I *always* point out that different people have different needs and one size doesn't fit all... 😉

Is that an opinion or a fact?