Best alternative to woodburner/hot air heater for heating?

[pebble77]

Hi everyone 

I'm looking for advice on how to heat my small boat for the next few months without a stove. 😬

I don't have one on the boat and can't put one in yet for a couple of reasons I won't go into.

Hot air heaters seem quite deisel intensive? Do I need a good solar set up to work them??

What other options are there?

Any advice would  be appreciated. 

😊 TIA

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 minutes ago, pebble77 said:

Hi everyone 

I'm looking for advice on how to heat my small boat for the next few months without a stove. 😬

I don't have one on the boat and can't put one in yet for a couple of reasons I won't go into.

Hot air heaters seem quite deisel intensive? Do I need a good solar set up to work them??

What other options are there?

Any advice would  be appreciated. 

😊 TIA

Solar power is useless in winter. About a 10th of the summer output, on average each day. Exactly the time you need your heating.

To get heat, you'll be burning something, if that is diesel, or coal, or wood. Hot air diesel heaters need electrical power to run the fans and pump, so you will need to replace that in the batteries some how.

[LadyG]

Are you proposing to sleep on board, cook, etc, because I think there are other things to consider which you may not be aware of, the consumption of diesel is only one. 

You will also need to generate electricity for your diesel heater, and solar won't cut it.

I understood you were hoping to install a solid fuel stove this winter, could you find a marina with shorepower to provide power until you have a solid fuel stove?

Edited November 22, 2023 by LadyG

[pebble77]

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, so I'll leave the air heater then as I've only got a small solar panel.

 

I've just arranged for someone to do the stove install but I'll won't be until mid January.

 

Marina is not an option and I have no choice but to be on the boat full time.

 

Paraffin heater any good?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, pebble77 said:

Paraffin heater any good?

 

NO NO NO

They produce huge amounts of condensation giving you steamed up windows and damp clothes & bedding.

 

Each litre of paraffin burned releases one litre – almost 2 pints – of water vapour into the atmosphere.

 

Just one local council information brochure :

 

Condensation leaflet outside (aberdeenshire.gov.uk)

[canals are us?]

Can't beat the solid fuel stove.

 

Try and get it installed earlier. If any DIY ability I would do it yourself, or ask for any installers in your area.

 

James.

[Mike Hurley]

Why are there  posts about people panicking about getting stoves/heaters fitted now its getting cold, winter happens this time every year, be prepared.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, pebble77 said:

Marina is not an option and I have no choice but to be on the boat full time.

 

 

Lots of marinas do winter moorings where people stay onboard 

[LadyG]

Once the clocks change and the sun goes South, everything changes.

Many people have never lived without heat and light at the flick of a switch. 

[blackrose]

25 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

Why are there  posts about people panicking about getting stoves/heaters fitted now its getting cold, winter happens this time every year, be prepared.

 

Yes, fitting a stove or a new flue is a job for summer, but it's amazing the number of people who leave it for autumn & winter. Living onboard or just owning a boat requires some thinking ahead.

Edited November 22, 2023 by blackrose

[booke23]

 

2 hours ago, pebble77 said:

Hi everyone 

I'm looking for advice on how to heat my small boat for the next few months without a stove. 😬

I don't have one on the boat and can't put one in yet for a couple of reasons I won't go into.

Hot air heaters seem quite deisel intensive? Do I need a good solar set up to work them??

What other options are there?

Any advice would  be appreciated. 

😊 TIA

 

 

Is your boat insulated? I seem to remember from your previous posts it's a grp cruiser.

 

Without a stove, Safe options on a boat are limited to diesel central heating/air heating or connecting to a shore line and running an electric heater....preferably a panel heater as other types could be dicey if they fall over.   

[Tracy D'arth]

Leave the boat, go abroad to somewhere warm, or stay on the boat, cold, miserable and risk making yourself ill.

[pebble77]

OK, lots of comments and good points. And a couple of, although well-meant, unfair assumptions.

 

Specifically for blackrose and Mike;

Thanks for your input.

I actually was not planning to be on it over the winter. The flue was going to be installed in the spring due to some structural changes I was going to make before then and because I was doing it as a project while living somewhere else.

 

Unfortunately circumstances have suddenly changed in my life and I am homeless apart from the boat.

I did not forsee this happening.

I would ask for a little more open mindedness and compassion before jumping to an assumption. Or better yet, if its not actually useful maybe dont comment at all?

No one knows what is going on in other peoples lives and I am here for genuine practical advice during what is a really difficult time. 

 

Thank you to those that are genuinely trying to help.

I will take another look further afield for a marina.

 

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

NO NO NO

They produce huge amounts of condensation giving you steamed up windows and damp clothes & bedding.

 

Each litre of paraffin burned releases one litre – almost 2 pints – of water vapour into the atmosphere.

 

Just one local council information brochure :

 

Condensation leaflet outside (aberdeenshire.gov.uk)

Okay, thank you. Really good to know!!

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, booke23 said:

 

 

 

Is your boat insulated? I seem to remember from your previous posts it's a grp cruiser.

 

Without a stove, Safe options on a boat are limited to diesel central heating/air heating or connecting to a shore line and running an electric heater....preferably a panel heater as other types could be dicey if they fall over.   

And not just any old diesel heater instalation, or you'll , well, maybe, kill yourself!

[canals are us?]

At least with a Marina you will have mains power. If a small GRP cruiser a pipsqueak stove would probably be ideal. 

 

James.

[pebble77]

The boat is steel and insulated.

 

My previous boat was grp.

 

I have a webasto installed that came with the boat but the electrician said it's a powerful one and solar will not run it this time of year.

[booke23]

11 minutes ago, pebble77 said:

I have a webasto installed that came with the boat but the electrician said it's a powerful one and solar will not run it this time of year.

 

The Webasto does need a bit of electrical power to run, but the heat comes from the unit burning diesel. The solar won't keep up with it however if your boat has a reasonable battery bank then it shouldn't be beyond reason to be able to run the webasto and replace the electrical power it uses from the batteries by running the engine for a few hours a day*. You could also consider a suitcase style quiet generator to charge your batteries assuming your boat has a built in charger. 

 

* you'll need to run the engine for many hours every week or two to properly recharge the batteries, which is why many use a small generator to do this. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by booke23

[pebble77]

Ah that's a good idea.

A small genny...

I can't run the engine at the moment as its broken down and the leccy said the batteries aren't in good shape so maybe this is a solution for now.

Always a useful thing to have too 👍🏻

I'll contact my electrian for advice on this.

Thank you!

[magnetman]

If you have a workplace or somewhere you can charge a battery there is an argument for buying a small lithium battery maybe a 20Ah battery and a charger and keep them in a rucksack. 

 

Once the Webasto is running it won't use all that much power. So if you have the facility to charge a 20Ah battery during the daytime then you have that available for starting and running the Webasto. I don't know how long it would work for as have not recorded power used by these things. 

 

Just a thought. It might not work. Small suitcase generator might be the thing and a battery charger to match. 

 

It seems to me that as there is already a Webasto on the boat this is the thing to use for heating or get the fire installed asap. 

 

 

 

 

[booke23]

15 minutes ago, pebble77 said:

I can't run the engine at the moment as its broken down and the leccy said the batteries aren't in good shape so maybe this is a solution for now.

 

Ah ok, batteries in bad shape are standard on newly acquired used narrowboats! 

 

If you do go down the generator route, don't be tempted with a god awful cheap frame generator....else you'll be public enemy number 1 with your neighbours. Also take care with carbon monoxide and storage of petrol issues with a generator.

 

18 minutes ago, pebble77 said:

Thank you!

 

You're welcome 👍

[pebble77]

41 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Ah ok, batteries in bad shape are standard on newly acquired used narrowboats! 

 

If you do go down the generator route, don't be tempted with a god awful cheap frame generator....else you'll be public enemy number 1 with your neighbours. Also take care with carbon monoxide and storage of petrol issues with a generator.

 

 

You're welcome 👍

Okay. Good shout.

 

Unfortunately though the batteries were sold to me 'brand new' from a boatyard where I was keeping the boat on hardstanding when it arrived.

The other day the electrian informed me not only are they definitely used, but in poor condition so hey ho

Oh and they charged me double what they would be new! 🥹

Many a lesson learned.

47 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you have a workplace or somewhere you can charge a battery there is an argument for buying a small lithium battery maybe a 20Ah battery and a charger and keep them in a rucksack. 

 

Once the Webasto is running it won't use all that much power. So if you have the facility to charge a 20Ah battery during the daytime then you have that available for starting and running the Webasto. I don't know how long it would work for as have not recorded power used by these things. 

 

Just a thought. It might not work. Small suitcase generator might be the thing and a battery charger to match. 

 

It seems to me that as there is already a Webasto on the boat this is the thing to use for heating or get the fire installed asap. 

 

 

 

 

I'll look into this. Thank you.

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

To get heat, you'll be burning something, if that is diesel, or coal, or wood.

Or gas.

Or wearing a lot of thick woolly jumpers.

Edited November 22, 2023 by David Mack

[agg221]

To avoid buying twice, if you are planning on doing a reasonable amount of work on the boat yourself I would look at matching the genny output to any power tools you are likely to need. Yes, there are many cordless tools, but from personal experience even a decent cordless make (DeWalt in my case) does not have the power output of corded and when e.g. drilling many holes in steel it can make a big difference to how long a job takes. Circular saws and power planes are the other power-hungry tools where it makes a big difference.

 

Alec

[LadyG]

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Lots of marinas do winter moorings where people stay 

It might be time to re assess: the boat needs a lot of time and money spent on it, this is the worse time of the year to try anything major IMHO 

I would go back to the boatyard and suggest they refund the cost of the batteries for a start, it's called fraud. Though I suspect he might have no good evidence of the transaction.

Is it going to be worthwhile, or could he sell it as a project to someone who actually wants a project.

Edited November 23, 2023 by LadyG

[jonathanA]

12 hours ago, pebble77 said:

Ah that's a good idea.

A small genny...

I can't run the engine at the moment as its broken down and the leccy said the batteries aren't in good shape so maybe this is a solution for now.

Always a useful thing to have too 👍🏻

I'll contact my electrian for advice on this.

Thank you!

I think I would prioritise getting the engine running -lots of incredibly knowledgeable and helpful folk on here if you are prepared to to get stuck in. once your engine is running then your in a much better position to assess whether the batteries are really scrap or have enough to run the webasto for a few a hours.  you could even run it off the starter battery at a push (start it with engine running). Also going to be in a far better position to find a marina/mooring with power for the winter then turning up with a boat with no engine...

 

no doubt having a non running engine and no solar means even if the batteries the yard fitted were new they are presumably flat as a pancake now....  but may still have some usable capacity if you can get them charged up.