"Percy" Butty

[mark99]

 

Harry Rathbone (Co.)

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by mark99

[Derek R.]

Two women, five children (two babes in arms) and Brindleys' tunnel ahead (if I am not mistaken).

That's touching.

[MtB]

23 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Two women, five children (two babes in arms) and Brindleys' tunnel ahead (if I am not mistaken).

That's touching.

 

And a bloke standing on the top plank up at the bow, well out of the way. Sensible man! 

 

 

[David Mack]

Butty or horse boat?

Is there a date for that photograph?

[mark99]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Butty or horse boat?

Is there a date for that photograph?

Prob horse boat. Will get date later.

1920-25. I checked the name too; it's Henry Rathbone.

[David Mack]

According to Wikipedia the Brindley tunnel closed in 1914, so if the photo is 1920-25, why is the boat heading that way?

[Tim Lewis]

59 minutes ago, David Mack said:

According to Wikipedia the Brindley tunnel closed in 1914, so if the photo is 1920-25, why is the boat heading that way?

Perhaps it’s having to moor up whilst the emergency boat waits days to have its rudder fixed?

[Heartland]

What was the cargo?

If limestone the butty would have come through the tunnel from the quarries. A horse would have drawn the craft along the towpath of the Telford Tunnel and if limestone was the destination a canal side blast furnace.

 

[mark99]

Salt, limestone or china clay?  Prob limestone?

The tunnels

Edited November 18, 2023 by mark99

[magnetman]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

And a bloke standing on the top plank up at the bow, well out of the way. Sensible man! 

 

 

 

 

Early social distancing. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, mark99 said:

 

Harry Rathbone (Co.)

 

 

They can't go through there, there is no safety boat 

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They can't go through there, there is no safety boat 

 

A Safety 'orse back in them days, Shirley?

[billh]

My guess is they are mooring for a while on the right hand side waiting for a north bound string  of boats to come out of the new tunnel. There's a hint of smoke coming out, might that be Bolinder exhaust? Was the battery tug (very on message these days) operational at this period? It's really difficult to get into the new tunnel from a standing start moored on the left.There was a continuous tow path in the tunnel in those days.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, billh said:

Was the battery tug (very on message these days) operational at this period?

The battery tug was apparently introduced in 1914 and the Brindley Tunnel closed the same year. So I imagine the introduction of the tug was a response to the tunnel's partial collapse (if not already planned) to improve the capacity of the Telford tunnel once it had to deal with the traffic in both directions.

Since the tug could tow up to 30 boats, they presumably needed a martialling area for the arriving boats, leaving a clear passage for those which had passed through the tunnel, which may indeed be why Percy was heading towards the old tunnel.

Edited November 18, 2023 by David Mack

[Stroudwater1]

10 hours ago, mark99 said:

Salt, limestone or china clay?  Prob limestone?

The tunnels

 

Its very white, I suspect its likely to be salt from the Nantwich area coming up to the potteries? I’m not sure where limestone was being shipped from, but most I thought came up from the Midlands/South area. 
 

Great image👍

[mark99]

8 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Its very white, I suspect its likely to be salt from the Nantwich area coming up to the potteries? I’m not sure where limestone was being shipped from, but most I thought came up from the Midlands/South area. 
 

Great image👍

 

Limestone from the Caldon @ Froghall may be a possibility

Cauldon Quarry (limestone). Down the track / tram railway to Froghall Basin - onwards via Narrowboats. Although the images I have seen of limestone at Froghall (below) was stoney texture/size - uncrushed. But they did have a crusher at Cauldon.

Edited November 19, 2023 by mark99

[tarboat]

On 18/11/2023 at 09:42, mark99 said:

Prob horse boat. Will get date later.

1920-25. I checked the name too; it's Henry Rathbone.

This photograph pre-dates the electric tug and therefore cannot be 1920-25. The boat is likely to be going through the old tunnel. When the tug was introduced a large semi-circular fender was built in order to guide the boats on tow into the tunnel. That is not present in this photo.

Edited November 21, 2023 by tarboat

[Jen-in-Wellies]

On 18/11/2023 at 23:35, Stroudwater1 said:

Its very white, I suspect its likely to be salt from the Nantwich area coming up to the potteries? I’m not sure where limestone was being shipped from, but most I thought came up from the Midlands/South area. 
 

Great image👍

In black and white photos, yellowy things can sometimes look whiter than white things. It is very hard to guess the colour from one. Wouldn't salt have some protection from the weather? It looks lumpy, so I'm more inclined to think limestone than salt. There was a limestone mine at Astbury, near the Macclesfield Canal, but that was likely nearing the end of its life at the estimated date of the photo. The mine was used in the production of lime and slacked lime might be another candidate for the cargo. I've no idea if slaked lime would have been transported in an open boat hold.

https://www.pdmhs.co.uk/MiningHistory/Bulletin 15-6 - Astbury Hydraulic Lime Works, Newbold, Cheshire.pdf

 

[magpie patrick]

On 19/11/2023 at 07:34, mark99 said:

 

Limestone from the Caldon @ Froghall may be a possibility

 That would be leaving the north end of Harecastle though wouldn't it? This boat is heading as if to enter the tunnel heading south, not leave it going north.

 

2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 Wouldn't salt have some protection from the weather?

 

It looks lumpy,

 

 

 I would have thought so too although I'm not sure how soluble large lumps of rock salt are. They would dissolve a little bit though if rained on, and corrode any ironwork holding the boat together?

[magnetman]

When we had the ponies they had a large lump of salt and it was in the open in the field and it didn't seem to be eroded by the weather. Ponies tongues yes but weather no as far as I remember. It was a sort of pink colour. They did like their salt.

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

When we had the ponies they had a large lump of salt and it was in the open in the field and it didn't seem to be eroded by the weather. Ponies tongues yes but weather no as far as I remember. It was a sort of pink colour. They did like their salt.

 

 

Rock salt was mined in Cheshire, as well as being made from evaporated brine. So possible it could be large lumps of the stuff.

http://winsfordrocksaltmine.co.uk/

 

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

 That would be leaving the north end of Harecastle though wouldn't it? This boat is heading as if to enter the tunnel heading south, not leave it going north.

 

 

 I would have thought so too although I'm not sure how soluble large lumps of rock salt are. They would dissolve a little bit though if rained on, and corrode any ironwork holding the boat together?

Corrosion would be a problem. I visited the Lion Salt Works around 25 years ago, in its early days as a museum, before they had done much restoration and the corrosion on any steelwork was spectacular. The boat in the picture is pointing south.

[Rusty Rivet]

The boat might be loaded with feldspar, used in the manufacture of pottery. This could have been loaded at Weston Point or Runcorn docks.