Fuel boats - don't pay in cash.

[magnetman]

That is my interpretation of it anyway - elfin safety. 

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I will admit to using Morrison's self service till as a coin counter and note changer. The machines in the stores that offer this service charge you a percentage for the swop. the tills don't.

I have noticed of late that Lidl staff have started to ask if you want a receipt. If you say no they bin the till receipt. I wonder why?

Probably find there is not the option on there till for no receipt. So if you said no they put it in the bin as otherwise they find them in the carpark and occasionally in their bin

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Which is why I don't understand why the OP title implies that we shouldn't pay fuel boats in cash.

 

I think it's misleading and unfair to the fuel boat businesses.

I tell you what, read what happened and make up your own mind. For god's sake, this is a forum. I'm not issuing orders.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I tell you what, read what happened and make up your own mind. For god's sake, this is a forum. I'm not issuing orders.

 

 

"Fuel boats - don't pay in cash."

 

Looks like an order to me!

 

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I will admit to using Morrison's self service till as a coin counter and note changer. The machines in the stores that offer this service charge you a percentage for the swop. the tills don't.

I have noticed of late that Lidl staff have started to ask if you want a receipt. If you say no they bin the till receipt. I wonder why?

Probably because a lot of people who dont want them dont dispose of them properly

[magnetman]

There is another side to the Lidl receipt story which is the car park. 

 

If there is controlled parking all you need is a receipt so you could walk through, not buy anything, pick up and a receipt and get free parking for whatever it is 90 minutes or something. 

 

More tricky if you have to reach into a bin. 

 

 

 

 

[Alway Swilby]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Exactly. 

 

Also if the boat operator company are that bad they miss payments then whose to say they aren't making other mistakes. 

 

It could be wrong identity. Maybe someone else did a £100 transaction it must be a fairly common amount to pay for diesel as its a nice round figure. 

 

 

 

As for contact details @Alan de Enfield suggested earlier that the fuel boat company -might- have a legitimate interest in your contact details and it is in the licence contract that the CRT reserve the right to share details. I don't know how one would prove legitimate interest. 

 

I'd hope a fuel boat would not be in this bracket but it is rather an intriguing thought. 

 

 

If the comms are just text message then one could just block them and see if they can find other contact details. A demand for payment should really come in a written letter or an email if you have already indicated you are happy to use this method of communication. 

 

Definitely not text messages. 

 

 

You can block emails too. So that only leaves a written letter. Difficult when you haven't got an address.

[magnetman]

Just now, Alway Swilby said:

You can block emails too. So that only leaves a written letter. Difficult when you haven't got an address.

Yes but he has got an address as he does not live on the boat. Also the CRT require an address for boat licensing. 

 

This is why I specifically said 

"email if you have already indicated you are happy to use this method of communication."

 

A letter is the way to go. I would definitely push this and find out if the fuel boat company is able to acquire the address of the customer from their boat name. I'm really intrigued about how accessible the CRT database might be in this regard. 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure they can't take any action against you based on a mobile phone number. 

 

So. Can they get your details from the CRT? Yes/No. 

[john.k]

Aldi ran a TV ad here where the chairman got into the corporate jet ,flew out here ,then was driven in a limo to see  a woman who had complained about 'mouldy' strawberries,and replaced them ............however ,in real life ,you return any bad fruit to Aldi ,and its 'where is the purchase docket '...........and you are like 'I only want a couple of oranges in exchange '..........and they are like its a major operation ....you must return all the oranges (1kg) from that pack,including the pack ,and get a refund to your card...........I mentioned the TV ad ,and oddly the manager had never seen it.

[Cheese]

Back to the original point, if you pay by cash and get a receipt how long should you keep it? I would normally bin receipts for stuff like food and fuel after about a month. Essentially after use. It seems unreasonable for any supplier (not issuing invoices / text messages for payment) to come back claiming non-payment after a couple of months.

1 minute ago, john.k said:

...........however ,in real life ,you return any bad fruit to Aldi ,and its 'where is the purchase docket '...........and you are like 'I only want a couple of oranges in exchange '..........and they are like its a major operation ..

Well if you take in a mouldy grape and ask for a couple of oranges in exchange I am not surprised. 😂

[john.k]

Seven years according to the tax dept here .....and longer if they direct you to...........however there is also a time limit on financial disputes .

[Morris]

8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As I've said above, I think that's exactly what happened - it got shoved in a pocket, they forgot to tick the book as paid and a day or two later it got found in a pocket and spent in the shop or pub. Sloppy accounting, yes, but not deliberate.

Anyway, I've said what happened, and how I think it happened. As I've said to the office, once trust is lost, accepting they've done what they say has been done when I'm not on the boat becomes impossible, and they'll have to accept that they've lost a customer - they don't appear to be that bothered and I doubt it'll make much of a dent in their business, which us probably a good thing. As most pay by card, it won't be a problem for most of us.

I can't see any point in my commenting any more, so I won't keep repeating the same thing. The thread will be about something else by tomorrow, anyway!

 

Sorry Arthur, I get you were just trying to post a cautionary tale and that you have had to field a lot of 'why didn't you..' and 'I would do this...' posts.  I think some of us tend to react harshly when anti cash sentiment is expressed because it feels like a losing battle. I think it's admirable that you sent them payment to put an end to the matter. 

 

(Off topic but I just wanted to say, I love your song about the interview for the post of CEO of the CRT. Always makes me laugh!) 

[HenryFreeman]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The thread will be about something else by tomorrow, anyway!

 

By tomorrow? It's already about Lidl

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Morris said:

 

(Off topic but I just wanted to say, I love your song about the interview for the post of CEO of the CRT. Always makes me laugh!) 

Appreciated!

[Mike Tee]

I don’t suppose we will ever know but when the fuel boat owner eventually spoke to the operator on Halsall, was it the same bloke who failed to record the cash receipt? Does he even still work for them? Because if he does I will personally not be using that business in future on principle.

[HenryFreeman]

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

Back to the original point, if you pay by cash and get a receipt how long should you keep it? I would normally bin receipts for stuff like food and fuel after about a month. Essentially after use. It seems unreasonable for any supplier (not issuing invoices / text messages for payment) to come back claiming non-payment after a couple of months.

Well if you take in a mouldy grape and ask for a couple of oranges in exchange I am not surprised. 😂

 

A sore point. I bought a kitchen tap from Ikea about 3 years ago. It came with a 10 year guarantee and has been working perfectly fine until recently. I took it back to Ikea and they refused to entertain looking at it or refunding me without a receipt. I've not hung onto that receipt because why would I after 3 years?

 

If it was a 20 quid tap then fine, but given it cost over 100 quid I'm a little bitter about it.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, HenryFreeman said:

  because why would I after 3 years?

 

As prof of purchase if it went wrong in 10 years

 

[HenryFreeman]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

As prof of purchase if it went wrong in 10 years

 

Surely the proof of purchase is the item (a tap) I have in my hand and it saying "Ikea" all over the back of it. Not sure how I could have acquired it otherwise.

Unless, perhaps, I nicked it. Although it's a collection item at Ikea so it's unlikely I could have nicked it as I had to show proof of purchase to the collection desk.

[Alway Swilby]

16 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

I don’t suppose we will ever know but when the fuel boat owner eventually spoke to the operator on Halsall, was it the same bloke who failed to record the cash receipt? Does he even still work for them? Because if he does I will personally not be using that business in future on principle.

I would like to hear the company's version of events before making such a decision.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

Surely the proof of purchase is the item (a tap) I have in my hand and it saying "Ikea" all over the back of it. Not sure how I could have acquired it otherwise.

Unless, perhaps, I nicked it. Although it's a collection item at Ikea so it's unlikely I could have nicked it as I had to show proof of purchase to the collection desk.

 

But with no proof of when you bought it, to confirm it was in the guarantee period why would they honour it?

 

I suppose if you could prove it had only been on sale as a product for less than ten years you might have had a case but I doubt that would even be possible.

[magnetman]

Lots of taps on eBay. 

[HenryFreeman]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Lots of taps on eBay. 

 

Not like this one. Anyway, like @Arthur Marshall, I've gone and given Ikea some more of my hard earned and bought another tap. Bastards.
 

1 hour ago, M_JG said:

 

But with no proof of when you bought it, to confirm it was in the guarantee period why would they honour it?

 

I suppose if you could prove it had only been on sale as a product for less than ten years you might have had a case but I doubt that would even be possible.

 

That's the approach I was going for but in the end gave up and bought another (different and cheaper) tap.

Edited October 5, 2023 by HenryFreeman

[Stilllearning]

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I will admit to using Morrison's self service till as a coin counter and note changer. The machines in the stores that offer this service charge you a percentage for the swop. the tills don't.

I have noticed of late that Lidl staff have started to ask if you want a receipt. If you say no they bin the till receipt. I wonder why?

Come to France then: the coin counting machines dont charge a fee for the service. (But they do only give us a 'bon d'achat' for the amount of coins we throw down the gullet of the machine,  to be spent in the shop - but we are going there anyway).

 

1 hour ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

Surely the proof of purchase is the item (a tap) I have in my hand and it saying "Ikea" all over the back of it. Not sure how I could have acquired it otherwise.

Unless, perhaps, I nicked it. Although it's a collection item at Ikea so it's unlikely I could have nicked it as I had to show proof of purchase to the collection desk.

This is why my wife, much to my amusement and sometimes my admiration, keeps boxes of in my opinion useless paperwork for bloody years.

[zenataomm]

I expect as an attempt at stock control the steerer starts of with x thousand ltrs of fuel, a starting counter number on the pump, x bags of coal and x numbers of whatever other stuff they sell.  Each transaction is entered in a book with meter readings opening and closing from the pump.

Upon return to base a closing stock take is done which when subtracted from the opening gives the value of stock presumably sold.

That value should equal the amount of cash carried and cheques, plus electronic payments received.

If the shortfall was £X xp. Then a gander through the sales book for that amount arrived at Arthur.  I expect it was his transaction that's at the bottom of it, but not Arthur himself.  Upon questioning the steerer has only two options, pay out of his own pocket or recall that Arthur didn't pay.

I shouldn't pay twice.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

I expect as an attempt at stock control the steerer starts of with x thousand ltrs of fuel, a starting counter number on the pump, x bags of coal and x numbers of whatever other stuff they sell.  Each transaction is entered in a book with meter readings opening and closing from the pump.

Upon return to base a closing stock take is done which when subtracted from the opening gives the value of stock presumably sold.

That value should equal the amount of cash carried and cheques, plus electronic payments received.

If the shortfall was £X xp. Then a gander through the sales book for that amount arrived at Arthur.  I expect it was his transaction that's at the bottom of it, but not Arthur himself.  Upon questioning the steerer has only two options, pay out of his own pocket or recall that Arthur didn't pay.

I shouldn't pay twice.

I'd be in agreement regarding not paying twice, the difficulty is that by doing so it almost amounts to an admission (to them) that it was you that was mistaken rather than them. I think my approach would be to go to the office and, not in a confrontational way, ask them to show me the paperwork on which they are basing their claim (presumably the sales book). Your suggestion does look like what has probably happened and Arthur has just been unlucky, but then if errors are being made, it is equally possible that two £50 sales were made without them properly collecting the money. If they have found themselves £100 short and just gone through the sales book looking for a £100 cash sale and fingered Arthur for it, it does show pretty sloppy accounting.

 

If I was going to continue to use this particular fuel boat, I'd probably stump up if their documentation did give a reasonable implication (balance of probabilities, or even less) that I hadn't paid, but if I were going to stop using the fuel boat then they'd need good solid evidence that I hadn't paid before I'd do so.