Boat batteries

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Cycle life not stated but probably about 300.

 

and only to maybe 60% discharged (they tend to say 40% charged).

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I agree with a poster above, viz avoid tapered battery posts if at all possible.

Other factors are getting the size of bat to fit your bat space, tedious when websites don't let you select by size, and terminal arrangement.

Tayna do as it happens. By size at least.  Or at least they stare size. You can’t filter by it I don’t think.  
 

 

Battery space slightly less of an issue.  At the moment the rack will hold three though I’ll likely weld up a new frame if I can squeeze in a fourth if deemed necessary.   

1 hour ago, DShK said:

Trojans are solid batteries (albeit 6 volt) for domestics. As has been mentioned the guarantee won't cover you if you knacker them. Just don't knacker them - it's easy to avoid if you know how and monitor them. Below is a good thread to read.

 

 

For starter, you shouldn't need two. My great big gardner 2lw only needs one. I just use a halfords 80ah battery. Just look for the ones with the highest cold cranking rating and you should be good. 

 

There are definitely some forum members who seem to like to gatekeep and revel in a sense of superiority. You seem to know what you've go yourself into, which seems to be more than can be said for a lot of new boaters. Good on you, you only have one life to live. Enjoy it! When you can get out on the cut, make some friends and pick their brains on some of these problems - it's a lot more rewarding and less toxic than this forum!

Cheers for that.  You’re not kidding. It’s the same on most forums I think.  Two or three members who feel duty bound to answer everything whether they know anything about it or not. And woe betide anyone who dares offer an opinion other than theirs which is of course correct always.
 

it’s actually really unhelpful as you think you’re getting the opinion of a forum and actually you’re getting the opinion of one obstinate individual who for all you know has never seen a boat. 
 

I’ve said before the fact that there are no actual builds on here surprised me.  Makes me think that nobody here actually does their own work.  Opinions and genuine info become difficult to disentangle if it’s coming from some keyboard warrior who’s just regurgitating something they read on a forum once.  Same with all forums mind .  Often you’re better off with Google. Least you get a broader range of answers.  
 

And yes, apart from the negativity on here  I’m happy with where I am.  I’ve spent £14k on a boat. If I spend £14k fitting it out and at the end it’s worth £14k and it’s costing me £5k a year to run then I’m still happy.
 

Tried to explain before. It’s a hobby, not an investment. I build stuff for pleasure and for a living. I love it.  If you’ve never built, saved or restored something, anything, then it’s pointless me trying to explain to you what you don’t get. You just won’t understand.     

[magnetman]

Go to Denka. English Chinaman called Andrew he will sort you out no problems. it is walking distance from P&S marine not that you would want to walk with heavy batteries but you could get a shopping trolley. Its literally round the corner from the boatyard. 

 

Weigh in old batteries come away with new batteries. 

 

Heck of a lot nicer than websites and hellfraud type arrangements. 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by magnetman
typo

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Trojans are big money and likely wont fit in the ops battery tray, and he is very likely to wreck his first set of batteries.

Something like this for the liesure battery:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/powerline/xv190mf/

 

Comes with a mythical 4 year warranty though this excludes wear and tear, under charging, over charging, deep cycling, sulphation, and otherwise actually using the battery.

Cycle life not stated but probably about 300.

Op needs to check size of battery tray/current batteries and to note that terminals can be "left or right handed" and if you get the wrong one the cables might be all wrong.

 

most cheaper batteries will come with standard automotive taper posts so get the adaptors suggested by magnetman. Note that the negative and positive terminals will likely need a different adaptor (slightly different post diameter).

 

or if you prefer Halfords there is this:

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/leisure-batteries/yuasa-active-leisure-battery-l36-agm-466926.html?stockInventory=undefined

Only a 2 year guarantee and 400 cyles but over £200 so must be good 😀

 

Cheers for those.   Something like the first will  be fine for now. Though I might look for a higher CCA.   Wouldn’t touch Halfords with a barge pole tbh even though I get trade prices.  
 

Cables not an issue. They’ll all be replaced for peace of mind.  
 

They’re cheap enough to get me going.  If I change them later I’ll pass them onto someone if I’ve not broken them.   
 

Battery tray size not an issue as I’ll weld up a new one and add clamps etc to comply with the BSC when it comes around.  

[magnetman]

Pleasure is what it is all about. 

 

If you ever lose the pleasure from doing boat related activities then as the say "you are losing the game so change the rules". 

 

Never, ever let doing boat related activities become a chore. If that happens then you will not get a good road and Bad Things will happen.

 

It is a balancing act. 

 

 

[truckcab79]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Go to Denka. English Chinaman called Andrew he will sort you out no problems. it is walking distance from P&S marine not that you would want to walk with heavy batteries but you could get a shopping trolley. Its literally round the corner from the boatyard. 

 

Weigh in old batteries come away with new batteries. 

 

Heck of a lot nicer than websites and hellfraud type arrangements. 

 

 

 

 

Cheers.  Though to be honest I’ve used Tayna loads for car and van batteries and also UK Batteries. Can’t fault them to be honest.  Well-priced, fast delivery.  Saves me taking time out of work to go get them etc. 

[system 4-50]

 

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• Member
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our ago   3 hours ago,  system 4-50 said: 

I agree with a poster above, viz avoid tapered battery posts if at all possible.

Other factors are getting the size of bat to fit your bat space, tedious when websites don't let you select by size, and terminal arrangement.

"Tayna do as it happens. By size at least.  Or at least they stare size. You can’t filter by it I don’t think.  "

 

I wrote a web script to allow selection by cost, size, type, bat posts, etc, for all of Tayna's bats, it took an age to scrape all the data of Tayna's website, and I asked Tayna if they were interested (at no charge).  I got an enthusiatic first response and then somebody higher up in the firm must have stamped on it because I could not get any further communication from them.

 

 

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

Cheers for that.  You’re not kidding. It’s the same on most forums I think.  Two or three members who feel duty bound to answer everything whether they know anything about it or not. And woe betide anyone who dares offer an opinion other than theirs which is of course correct always.
 

it’s actually really unhelpful as you think you’re getting the opinion of a forum and actually you’re getting the opinion of one obstinate individual who for all you know has never seen a boat. 
 

I’ve said before the fact that there are no actual builds on here surprised me.  Makes me think that nobody here actually does their own work.  Opinions and genuine info become difficult to disentangle if it’s coming from some keyboard warrior who’s just regurgitating something they read on a forum once.  Same with all forums mind .  Often you’re better off with Google. Least you get a broader range of answers.  
 

And yes, apart from the negativity on here  I’m happy with where I am.

Sorry, I think you are contributing to the negativity just a bit.  This will put off the people you want to hear from who haven't surfaced yet!  This forum is pretty good so long as you able to ignore the less useful posts and not respond to them.

[truckcab79]

Or the bots.  😂

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

The debate on how many batteries it SHOULD take to start it is largely irrelevant at this stage.  When you’re fault-finding or don’t know what you have then the rule is that you change nothing, then change one thing at a time to gauge the effect.  
 

 

Therefore the correct approach on an engine that starts well as it stands is to replace the two very likely poor condition batteries with two know good ones, wired in exactly the same way. ‘Right’ or ‘wrong’ the  known factor is that it currently works.  

Much bigger engines than yours start quite happily from a single start battery. Looks to me like your start battery is knackered, and in an attempt to get the engine started someone has parallelled it with one of the equally knackered domestic batteries. So take the two current start batteries out and fit one new one in their place (at half the cost of buying an unnecessary second battery as well). As long as the engine is free and the starter motor is working it should turn over just fine.

6 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Other factors are getting the size of bat to fit your bat space, tedious when websites don't let you select by size, and terminal arrangement.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/tools/battery-wizard

[JungleJames]

12 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

After your little outburst at Tracy I don't see why I should try to help.  What she and I said and the others is basically true, whatever you may like to think. Sorry I tried to save you spending more money  than you need.

 

To keep things simple, you need the same terminal posts as the existing batteries, otherwise you will be looking at changing the terminals on the cables and that is not so easy for DIY without a heavy duty criming tool. They are probably standard automotive tapered posts, but without any photos how can we know.

 

It will also keep it simple if you ensure that you have the same terminal layout as the existing batteries. That is when looking at the fornt ot back of both old an dnew batteries the posts on both are in the same location.

To be fair, Tracy has been winding him up from the start.

It's as if she is purposely pulling on the string until it snaps. Knowing many others on here would automatically back her up as she is one of the forum elders.

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, she has added something useful, but it's been lost somewhere.

 

OP.

There are some battery places that will take a look at your old batteries, and produce exactly what you need.

Shield Batteries I think are one.

 

https://www.shieldbatteries.co.uk/

 

The good thing is, these battery places won't proceed to tell you when, and for how much, you will sell your boat.

 

Those on here telling you that you probably don't need 2 starter batteries are likely spot on.

But when you just want to get the boat to your home mooring, it is understandable why you may not want to change anything just yet.

That can come later when you have time.

 

12 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

 
 

I was a company director for a large retail department store group since you ask.  My point was more that various unfounded anecdotes about about how companies won’t take back ‘abused’ products isn’t actually true in my experience. They don’t have a legal leg to stand on and can’t or won’t spend the time proving it anyway. Doesn’t mean they won’t try initially but they’ll lose.  Hence my original assertion that I would be covered by a 4 year guarantee. 

 

I think you are a brave man assuming any abused batteries will be returned, especially after 4yrs.

But yes, there are certain places that don't think it worth arguing. 

There are certain guarantees I wouldn't rely on. Batteries being one of them, certainly not upto 4yrs anyway. But you never know. 

 

 

I haven't seen anybody actually say for certain they have been denied a refund or exchange on abused batteries. Just suggestions it won't work.

 

Pick a manufacturer you are happy with, and go for it. You may win, or you may lose. 

 

As mentioned before, a decent place will provide like for like. 

Just beware as time goes on, you may want to add more domestic batteries. Best make sure you have space to add an extra. 

 

[JungleJames]

6 hours ago, David Mack said:

Much bigger engines than yours start quite happily from a single start battery. Looks to me like your start battery is knackered, and in an attempt to get the engine started someone has parallelled it with one of the equally knackered domestic batteries. So take the two current start batteries out and fit one new one in their place (at half the cost of buying an unnecessary second battery as well). As long as the engine is free and the starter motor is working it should turn over just fine.

 

Good point. I wonder if that is why he has 2 starter batteries.

 

It would seem an unnecessary luxury. Albeit I can see why the OP just wants to get it home before altering everything.

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, JungleJames said:

To be fair, Tracy has been winding him up from the start.

It's as if she is purposely pulling on the string until it snaps. Knowing many others on here would automatically back her up as she is one of the forum elders.

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, she has added something useful, but it's been lost somewhere.

 

OP.

There are some battery places that will take a look at your old batteries, and produce exactly what you need.

Shield Batteries I think are one.

 

https://www.shieldbatteries.co.uk/

 

The good thing is, these battery places won't proceed to tell you when, and for how much, you will sell your boat.

 

Those on here telling you that you probably don't need 2 starter batteries are likely spot on.

But when you just want to get the boat to your home mooring, it is understandable why you may not want to change anything just yet.

That can come later when you have time.

 

I think you are a brave man assuming any abused batteries will be returned, especially after 4yrs.

But yes, there are certain places that don't think it worth arguing. 

There are certain guarantees I wouldn't rely on. Batteries being one of them, certainly not upto 4yrs anyway. But you never know. 

 

 

I haven't seen anybody actually say for certain they have been denied a refund or exchange on abused batteries. Just suggestions it won't work.

 

Pick a manufacturer you are happy with, and go for it. You may win, or you may lose. 

 

As mentioned before, a decent place will provide like for like. 

Just beware as time goes on, you may want to add more domestic batteries. Best make sure you have space to add an extra. 

 

Her contributions if you can call them that have just been pointless and nasty.  Seems to be the same approach on other’s threads too.  Doesn’t matter.  Every forum has someone like that. See it all the time.  The forum is their life. Sad really.  You can see it in the fact that ever after saying that she wouldn’t contribute to my thread she still carried on anyway. They can’t stop themselves.  😂

 

The refund issue was a distraction. Doesn’t matter to me whether they refund them or not to be honest.  It’s just a cost I’ll swallow or not  along the way.  All part of the learning process.  
 

Batteries ordered. I’m not even going to bother saying what I went for in the end as I can’t be arsed with the ensuing ‘oooh. They’re the wrong ones. Now it’s going to sink / burst into flames’ debate.  🙄

 

Thank you to those of you who made informed intelligent comments that attempted to answer my original question.  👍

53 minutes ago, JungleJames said:

Good point. I wonder if that is why he has 2 starter batteries.

 

It would seem an unnecessary luxury. Albeit I can see why the OP just wants to get it home before altering everything.

Precisely.  Of course it won’t need them.  But as I said prior. If you know anything about rebuilding stuff you don’t jump in and change what you have until you know more about why it’s been done.  And the first trip in a new boat isn’t the time to start.  

[JungleJames]

7 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Her contributions if you can call them that have just been pointless and nasty.  Seems to be the same approach on other’s threads too.  Doesn’t matter.  Every forum has someone like that. See it all the time.  The forum is their life. Sad really.  You can see it in the fact that ever after saying that she wouldn’t contribute to my thread she still carried on anyway. They can’t stop themselves.  😂

 

The refund issue was a distraction. Doesn’t matter to me whether they refund them or not to be honest.  It’s just a cost I’ll swallow or not  along the way.  All part of the learning process.  
 

Batteries ordered. I’m not even going to bother saying what I went for in the end as I can’t be arsed with the ensuing ‘oooh. They’re the wrong ones. Now it’s going to sink / burst into flames’ debate.  🙄

 

Thank you to those of you who made informed intelligent comments that attempted to answer my original question.  👍

Precisely.  Of course it won’t need them.  But as I said prior. If you know anything about rebuilding stuff you don’t jump in and change what you have until you know more about why it’s been done.  And the first trip in a new boat isn’t the time to start.  

Plus, whilst others go on about saving a couple quid on a battery, as my dad says:

"You can't take it with you when you die" (your money that is, although I'm not sure a battery would help either!!)

[rusty69]

11 hours ago, magnetman said:

Pleasure is what it is all about. 

 

If you ever lose the pleasure from doing boat related activities then as the say "you are losing the game so change the rules". 

 

Never, ever let doing boat related activities become a chore. If that happens then you will not get a good road and Bad Things will happen.

 

It is a balancing act. 

 

 

You clearly have never spent hours lying beneath 20 tonnes of steel with an angle grinder. 

[Momac]

3 hours ago, JungleJames said:

 

I haven't seen anybody actually say for certain they have been denied a refund or exchange on abused batteries. Just suggestions it won't work.

 

I have been refused a replacement after a battery showed poor performance after a year . The other battery bought at the same time and used in the same bank of two was fine.

But my claim was denied.

So not really an abused battery bur clam refused .

So I don't buy batteries (nor anything else if I can avoid it) from that source since .

[system 4-50]

9 hours ago, David Mack said:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/tools/battery-wizard

Excellent! They've rolled their own, a shame that they dropped the additional feature I supplied which attempted to show the best batteries to fit in a specific size of space.

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

You clearly have never spent hours lying beneath 20 tonnes of steel with an angle grinder. 

Aaah. But the small of welding, grinding steel, diesel, EP90.   Mmmmm.  Makes it all worthwhile.  

[Peanut]

If all goes wrong, it cost quite a bit to send batteries back, they are heavy, and if over 25kg some carriers won't take them. They may be, most likely will be, classed as hazardous goods in the carriers t&c's, so they won't take them.  You have to describe them as accumulators to fool them.

If you have to, it might be cheaper to take thm back yourself,  especially if you have to pay carriage on the replacements.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

56 minutes ago, Peanut said:

You have to describe them as accumulators to fool them.

Galvanic pile, or Voltaic pile would be good historic names that could also work.

[Ewan123]

On 01/10/2023 at 08:35, dmr said:

A leisure battery on a full time liveaboard will last two years if you are lucky, more likely one

That's a bit extreme... I doubt we're an outlier and our batteries were on the boat for at least a year before we bought it and have now done about 3 years for us on top of that - including our "learning period" where we definitely didn't treat them perfectly. I'm just starting to notice them declining in health now though they still give us a full day of power so aren't totally knackered yet.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ewan123

[dmr]

32 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

That's a bit extreme... I doubt we're an outlier and our batteries were on the boat for at least a year before we bought it and have now done about 3 years for us on top of that - including our "learning period" where we definitely didn't treat them perfectly. I'm just starting to notice them declining in health now though they still give us a full day of power so aren't totally knackered yet.

A lot depends on your boating lifestyle as its the number of cycles and depth of discharge that are the big factors....assuming you avoid sulphation.

300 cycles to 50% is often quoted.

[Ewan123]

54 minutes ago, dmr said:

A lot depends on your boating lifestyle as its the number of cycles and depth of discharge that are the big factors....assuming you avoid sulphation.

300 cycles to 50% is often quoted.

True, there are a lot of variables. We've usually taken them down to 50% every day or two (two people working at home on laptops and usual miscellaneous chargings, most things run through the inverter) and they probably only get the Full Charge once or twice a week when solar reduces, otherwise just a couple of hours of charging each time. Which I'm not advocating as best practice for maintaining healthy batteries, it's just the compromise we've tended towards. So these have probably done an approximate 500-700 cycles over 4 years I reckon, with a few "whoops!" heavy discharges in that time.

 

All that to say, I think we sometimes over-egg the idea that batteries Will die in a year or two.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 hours ago, Ewan123 said:

All that to say, I think we sometimes over-egg the idea that batteries Will die in a year or two.

 

It is possible to kill batteires in under a week

 

Ask anyone whio has mistakenly left the immersion heater / inverter running for a few days without moving the boat.

[TheBiscuits]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is possible to kill batteires in under a week

 

Ask anyone whio has mistakenly left the immersion heater / inverter running for a few days without moving the boat.

 

Yeah, but you only did it the once!

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Yeah, but you only did it the once!

 

 

It was only left on for a few hours and that took my 6x 230Ah batteries dangerously low.