MIG Welding Supplies

[1st ade]

This isn't to build or maintain a boat - but it could be! If I'm wrong, report it and I'll get it moved...

 

I learnt to stick weld when I first started work, the company believed in a wide experience so my first three months saw working in a sawmill, sheet metal, paint shop, PCB manufacture, conformal coating, metal (and plastic) turning etc. In those days MIG was not a thing.

 

I've now got a lot of small jobs in the garden such as bird tables, hanging baskets, seats and tables. Individually I'd bodge with self tappers and cable ties but I'm tempted (I like toys!) with a small welder such as the R-Tech 180A. I know I'll need a mask and gauntlets but the gas supply has me stumped.

 

I used to SCUBA dive - our tanks were rated by capacity at ambient pressure (also known as "water capacity" or WC) and a rated pressure - example, a 12l tank at 200 bar was 2,400 litres of usable air.

 

MIG tanks are "different" - The most common seem to be "disposable" weighing around 4kG and holding 60 litres of 86% Argon / 14% CO2. At the quoted rate for a MIG torch (15l/min) they last around four minutes - that seems awfully bad for the environment (and my wallet!) - throwing 1 kG of steel in the bin every 60 seconds!

 

Are there more sensible options for MIG - or should I revert to Stick Welding?

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

This isn't to build or maintain a boat - but it could be! If I'm wrong, report it and I'll get it moved...

 

I learnt to stick weld when I first started work, the company believed in a wide experience so my first three months saw working in a sawmill, sheet metal, paint shop, PCB manufacture, conformal coating, metal (and plastic) turning etc. In those days MIG was not a thing.

 

I've now got a lot of small jobs in the garden such as bird tables, hanging baskets, seats and tables. Individually I'd bodge with self tappers and cable ties but I'm tempted (I like toys!) with a small welder such as the R-Tech 180A. I know I'll need a mask and gauntlets but the gas supply has me stumped.

 

I used to SCUBA dive - our tanks were rated by capacity at ambient pressure (also known as "water capacity" or WC) and a rated pressure - example, a 12l tank at 200 bar was 2,400 litres of usable air.

 

MIG tanks are "different" - The most common seem to be "disposable" weighing around 4kG and holding 60 litres of 86% Argon / 14% CO2. At the quoted rate for a MIG torch (15l/min) they last around four minutes - that seems awfully bad for the environment (and my wallet!) - throwing 1 kG of steel in the bin every 60 seconds!

 

Are there more sensible options for MIG - or should I revert to Stick Welding?

CO2 from the bottles used in pubs.  Make friends with the local landlord. Get him to swap bottles for you.

Not the best gas for MIG but perfectly usable.

Instigate a carbon capture plant, free and easy.

[bizzard]

Ready fluxed Mig wire works ok for the not so important jobs.

[David Mack]

Out of curiosity I googled and found this. https://hobbyweld.co.uk/ Rent free reusable bottles. Must be better and more affordable, surely.

[1st ade]

11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Out of curiosity I googled and found this. https://hobbyweld.co.uk/ Rent free reusable bottles. Must be better and more affordable, surely.

Thanks - I'll have a look

 

30 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Make friends with the local landlord

I know the local landlady very well - I'll have words, thank you.

 

13 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Ready fluxed Mig wire works ok for the not so important jobs.

Thanks

[john.k]

MIG is very sensitive to draughts blowing the gas away .........fluxcore /gasless is more servicable outdoors ,if you want a wire feeder ...........dunno about UK ,but here you can 'buy' a bottle ,and pay to have it refilled .....fairly costly to buy the bottle,but no rental charge ...............however ,since every hardware chain has got into the act ,BOC have pulled their heads in a bit.....and given up their business model of piracy on the high seas......and got into the gas bottle act themselves ...........the gas is still quite expensive ,though.

[jonathanA]

hobby weld are slighlty better than the disposable bottles but i found it hard to find a local distributor and they were not cheap - Machine mart do a higher capacity disposable which is not too bad for intermittent use. 

 

Echoing what tracy says I found a local Gas company J&R Gases of Nelson/Burnley do a 'rent free' bottle  scheme - pay a oneoff charge and then just pay for gas refills. Much better than those disposable bottles and infinitely better than having to deal with those robin bastards at BOC.  I have a small oxygen bottle (for oxy-propane) and a 'medium size' Argon mix for Mig. I find the argon mix much better then straight CO2. That may be more to do with my welding capability, but i get significantly better results with Argon mix than CO2. 

[1st ade]

Thanks all - I'll maybe buy the "MIG" welder and a reel of flux cored wire* - If I get on with it then I've got the regulator and bits for when/if I want to go MIG. If I don't get on then I've only wasted the cost of a reel of wire when I switch to gas.

 

[ * - plus, obviously, the safety equipment ]

[truckcab79]

As said. Hobbyweld is a decent solution if you have one near enough.  
 

If nothing else get a gas/gasless machine and one of the rip-off little disposables.  Try both. Flux-cored has its place if for instance you have no choice but to weld outside but it’s nothing like as smooth as welding with gas.  
 

There’s a good chance you’ll be disappointed if you go with gasless and think that’s as good as it gets.  
 

pick-up an auto darkening helmet.  They’re dirt cheap these days.  And a decent set of gauntlets.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by truckcab79

[Morris]

If you go with flux core beware of the tiny bits of slag that ping off as the weld cools. I got one in my eye once, not fun! Now I always wear safety glasses under my welding helmet, which also prevents arc eye if I accidentally arc up. 

'Proper' mig with some sort of argon mix is an absolute joy compared to flux core. Plus with careful control of the trigger you can put out small fires that you start! I used to rent a bottle from energas which wasn't too expensive but was heavy to move around. 

Have you considered an inverter stick welder? 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Inverter stick welders are great for welding upside down.    😀

[TandC]

I use HobbyWeld - partly because the supplier is nearby.  There is flexibility - you pay the initial bottle deposit and can simply upgrade to the larger size if you need it.  I've stuck with the smaller size because it's rare that I need that amount of gas on a single project and theyre light and easy to move around/store.  The c02/argon mix is the best bet for the MIG. 

 

 

[Slim]

On 25/09/2023 at 10:34, David Mack said:

Out of curiosity I googled and found this. https://hobbyweld.co.uk/ Rent free reusable bottles. Must be better and more affordable, surely.

Co- incidentally having read this post a few days ago I saw my neighbours son doing some MIG welding yesterday. Seemingly he got his gas from Hobby-Weld. His dad was not sure of the size but the indefinite hire of the cylinder is £70 (refundable) and gas £50 a refill..   

[1st ade]

On 25/09/2023 at 16:28, Morris said:

If you go with flux core beware of the tiny bits of slag that ping off as the weld cools. I got one in my eye once, not fun! Now I always wear safety glasses under my welding helmet, which also prevents arc eye if I accidentally arc up. 

'Proper' mig with some sort of argon mix is an absolute joy compared to flux core. Plus with careful control of the trigger you can put out small fires that you start! I used to rent a bottle from energas which wasn't too expensive but was heavy to move around. 

Have you considered an inverter stick welder? 

 

Thanks - I will be very careful of my eyesight; I value it too much!

 

Welder arrives tomorrow, mask and gloves today, fluxed wire on Thursday. All bought with the plan that if I don't like it, I change the wire and add a gas bottle...

 

The MIG inverter will drive a stick (with an electrode holder)

On 25/09/2023 at 16:11, truckcab79 said:

pick-up an auto darkening helmet.  They’re dirt cheap these days.  And a decent set of gauntlets.

Both done...

 

On 25/09/2023 at 16:11, truckcab79 said:

There’s a good chance you’ll be disappointed if you go with gasless and think that’s as good as it gets

The only thing I shall be disappointed with is my own skill...

[bizzard]

44 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

Thanks - I will be very careful of my eyesight; I value it too much!

 

Welder arrives tomorrow, mask and gloves today, fluxed wire on Thursday. All bought with the plan that if I don't like it, I change the wire and add a gas bottle...

 

The MIG inverter will drive a stick (with an electrode holder)

 If you do get a touch of Arc eye or just sore eyes get a little bottle of Caster oil, tip your head back and tip a drop into each eye and swivel your eye balls about to disperse it. It will ease and sooth the pain. Also good for working bits of dust, saw dust or whatever out of the eyes. Good for constipation too.

Edited October 2, 2023 by bizzard

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, bizzard said:

 If you do get a touch of Arc eye or just sore eyes get a little bottle of Caster oil, tip your head back and tip a drop into each eye and swivel your eye balls about to disperse it. It will ease and sooth the pain. Also good for working bits of dust, saw dust or whatever out of the eyes. Good for constipation too.

Does it turn your eyes red and green 

[Ronaldo47]

On 25/09/2023 at 16:28, Morris said:

If you go with flux core beware of the tiny bits of slag that ping off as the weld cools. I got one in my eye once, not fun! Now I always wear safety glasses under my welding helmet, which also prevents arc eye if I accidentally arc up. 

 

I had this happen a couple of decades ago. I have a SIP gasless welder bought from Argos, and was using just the hand-held shield supplied with it to weld something in the wheel arch of my camper van. Something hot bounced off something and went across my eyeball above the centre of the cornea. A&E confirmed that something hot had passed across the eye, but fortunately there was nothing in the eye itself. The impact must have temporarily distorted the lens, because for several hours after,  spots appeared as letter C's, but vision was back to normal the following day. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Ronaldo47
typos

[Slim]

3 hours ago, 1st ade said:

Thanks - I will be very careful of my eyesight; I value it too much!

 

Welder arrives tomorrow, mask and gloves today, fluxed wire on Thursday. All bought with the plan that if I don't like it, I change the wire and add a gas bottle...

 

The MIG inverter will drive a stick (with an electrode holder)

Both done...

 

The only thing I shall be disappointed with is my own skill...

My welding has been described as "dog poo". 

[truckcab79]

3 hours ago, 1st ade said:

 

 

The only thing I shall be disappointed with is my own skill...

Don’t worry. When you try it with gas you’ll be like ‘Oh my god. I’m a welder!’  😂

[churchward]

On 25/09/2023 at 10:07, 1st ade said:

This isn't to build or maintain a boat - but it could be! If I'm wrong, report it and I'll get it moved...

 

I learnt to stick weld when I first started work, the company believed in a wide experience so my first three months saw working in a sawmill, sheet metal, paint shop, PCB manufacture, conformal coating, metal (and plastic) turning etc. In those days MIG was not a thing.

 

I've now got a lot of small jobs in the garden such as bird tables, hanging baskets, seats and tables. Individually I'd bodge with self tappers and cable ties but I'm tempted (I like toys!) with a small welder such as the R-Tech 180A. I know I'll need a mask and gauntlets but the gas supply has me stumped.

 

I used to SCUBA dive - our tanks were rated by capacity at ambient pressure (also known as "water capacity" or WC) and a rated pressure - example, a 12l tank at 200 bar was 2,400 litres of usable air.

 

MIG tanks are "different" - The most common seem to be "disposable" weighing around 4kG and holding 60 litres of 86% Argon / 14% CO2. At the quoted rate for a MIG torch (15l/min) they last around four minutes - that seems awfully bad for the environment (and my wallet!) - throwing 1 kG of steel in the bin every 60 seconds!

 

Are there more sensible options for MIG - or should I revert to Stick Welding?

Any bottled Co2 source will be OK. It gets expensive if you want to use more exotic mixes (like Argon and the like) for specialist work such as stainless steel.

 

Sealey do a 1kg Co2 refillable bottle you just exchange for a full one (just paying for the gas for refills) when you need to just like a calor gas bottle on a boat. You can check if there is an agent in your area.

 

I tend to weld with Flux wire (gasless) MIG these days and is more convenient for welding outside where a gas feed system can be blown away from the weld bead.  I also use stick welding particularly for thicker stuff as I find it more suitable and in any case I find it simpler and I just like it. I do use gas for particular stuff when it calls for it.

[waterworks]

If your just doing DIY projects then stick will do most of it IF you learn how to use it on low amps. Get some 2mm 6013 for sheet metal work, ( forget 1.6) which should get you down below 40 amps. Learn to use run off plates and copper backing plates and all the tricks . DIY welders run to MIG first for no real reason than they can't be bothered to learn stick welding. 

 

Oh and ignore DIY flux core.