Licences

[Rambling Boater]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

CCers have had the benefit of cheap living costs and its is now time they paid their way.

 

But we DO pay, the argument is whether it's enough to pay for the continually run down facilities and increasing number of broken paddles. All shared by all types of boater.

 

There is nothing stopping anyone with a mooring spending the year travelling around the system. You could be using the facilities as much as CC'ers if you wanted. It's just that some people prefer to stay in the marina most of the time and moan about those enjoying cruising.  😉

 

Tax payers will no longer be contributing to the maintenence

of tow paths which according to C&RT, millions of the general public  use every year,. Yet we, as boaters, still have to contribute.

 

For example, many of us have seen the damage cyclists can do to the tow paths, shouldnt they pay towards the upkeep?

 

 

 

 

[HenryFreeman]

5 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 Most of the Continuous Moorers who are saying their Continuous Cruisers in London and most of the young twenty somethings young kids that call themselves boaters, but who are in fact floaters looking for somewhere cheap to live. If you were to offer these people a cheap flat, they would be off the boat in a flash.

 

I'm not sure if you're saying that this is a problem or otherwise. Why wouldn't people with a limited income look for somewhere cheap to live? I don't really see that as being a problem. And if they do leave the cut for a cheap flat, so be it. I'm not sure how that is a problem either.

Although from my experience in CCing in London a few years back, people relished living on a boat. Minimal impact on the environment, an interesting way of life, cheap (of course). I'm not sure offering many of those young twenty somethings a cheap flat in London would have them leave in droves. It's not so much the cost of rent, it's all the other costs that make living in London expensive.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

, it's all the other costs that make living on the land in London expensive.

FTFY

[HenryFreeman]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

FTFY

 

Yep, that's a fair comment.

[magnetman]

23 minutes ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

I'm not sure if you're saying that this is a problem or otherwise. Why wouldn't people with a limited income look for somewhere cheap to live? I don't really see that as being a problem. And if they do leave the cut for a cheap flat, so be it. I'm not sure how that is a problem either.

Although from my experience in CCing in London a few years back, people relished living on a boat. Minimal impact on the environment, an interesting way of life, cheap (of course). I'm not sure offering many of those young twenty somethings a cheap flat in London would have them leave in droves. It's not so much the cost of rent, it's all the other costs that make living in London expensive.

 

the point is that if the primary driver is cost considerations then you can get a lot of turnover. 

 

If someone is living on the boat for say 3 yars while they gather enough for a deposit or whatever they have no interest in the long term viability of living on a boat. Living on the boat is simply a cost saving exercise with the aim being to not live on the boat. 

 

So logically they can take the convenient route of not adhering to regulations. By the time the system catches up and enforces they are gone like a long dog. 

 

Over time, if a lot of people do not adhere to the regulations the regulations get changed and this never results in things getting better. This is to the detriment of people who are interested in the long term viability of living on boats. 

 

It is an obvious problem and not part of a them and us attitude just a logical observation. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by magnetman

[Midnight]

4 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Hope not as he can’t even be bothered to see if his subject matter is already being discussed on here. Probably a new Continuous Moorer that has watched too much Youtube and thinks it’s a cheap way of living being on the Canal.

 

A little unfair and not at all accurate.
Octogenarian, Brian Jarret has been a genuine continuous cruiser on a 'real' vintage boat for many years. I believe he is currently looking for a winter mooring.

[cuthound]

17 hours ago, Midnight said:

 

I have a lot of sympathy for genuine CCers. I wonder if the NBTA would support a suggestion that C&RT separate CCers from CMers and apply the surcharge only to those who flout the rules. It would be possible using sightings records and would encourage CMers to increase their range or take a paid mooring. 

 

So do I. Genuine CCers must spend a fair bit on diesel and maintenance, so the licence increase will be a proportionally smaller increase to their overall boating costs compared to someone who is trying to live on a boat at the lowest possible cost by gaming the system.

Edited September 27, 2023 by cuthound
Clarification

[Rambling Boater]

56 minutes ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

I'm not sure if you're saying that this is a problem or otherwise. Why wouldn't people with a limited income look for somewhere cheap to live? I don't really see that as being a problem. And if they do leave the cut for a cheap flat, so be it. I'm not sure how that is a problem either.

Although from my experience in CCing in London a few years back, people relished living on a boat. Minimal impact on the environment, an interesting way of life, cheap (of course). I'm not sure offering many of those young twenty somethings a cheap flat in London would have them leave in droves. It's not so much the cost of rent, it's all the other costs that make living in London expensive.

Another factor in this is that once us old farts dissappear, it will be the young twenty somethings who will inherit what is left of the system.

 

We are already losing many historic activities and interests as it is. Surely we should be trying to encourage them (well except for the P takers).

 

I believe most of the boaters a few centuries ago didn't have a lot of money either!

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Hope not as he can’t even be bothered to see if his subject matter is already being discussed on here. Probably a new Continuous Moorer that has watched too much Youtube and thinks it’s a cheap way of living being on the Canal.

If this is the Brian I am thinking of he is far from a new boater and from the money he has spent on his boating being a cheap way of living would be well off the mark.  

[Arthur Marshall]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

the point is that if the primary driver is cost considerations then you can get a lot of turnover. 

 

If someone is living on the boat for say 3 yars while they gather enough for a deposit or whatever they have no interest in the long term viability of living on a boat. Living on the boat is simply a cost saving exercise with the aim being to not live on the boat. 

 

So logically they can take the convenient route of not adhering to regulations. By the time the system catches up and enforces they are gone like a long dog. 

 

Over time, if a lot of people do not adhere to the regulations the regulations get changed and this never results in things getting better. This is to the detriment of people who are interested in the long term viability of living on boats. 

 

It is an obvious problem and not part of a them and us attitude just a logical observation. 

 

 

I can't see that whether one has a long or short term view of, or interest in, boating, either living on or as a hobby, has much to do with anything. Some see it as a weekend cottage and occasional trip out, some see it as cheap housing (which it will always be, if you pick your area), some as an interesting cruise for a few years , some as a historical preservation society, some as where they work, and some as something they just like doing. Almost everybody has a different reason for playing on boats, all are equally valid if within the law, and very few are interested in the "long term viability of living on boats" - it certainly appears that most who do, aren't.

I'm biased, of course. I lived on my boat for a few years while between houses and, occasionally, wives. I admit not to being in the slightest bit interested in the "long term viability of living on boats" - after all the canals weren't  designed for that. No reason why anyone can't do it legally, if they're on a real cruise. The only other reason to push for it on a long term basis is to turn into a housing estate, and I'm not sure that's what you want, though it's a logical financial step for CRT, and would, of course, fulfil your desire for the "long term viability of living on boats"

 

[magnetman]

Very good post Arthur. Thank you. 

 

 

We are both biased. I have always lived on boats both with moorings and without moorings and will continue to do so. I'll never be able to live on land. It can't happen. 

 

It doesn't matter. Nothing matters anyway but it does seem to me that living on boats will become more difficult in future. Maybe this isn't because of the bias caused by very cheap canal boat licences. 

 

I suppose its an inevitable part of change, which is the only constant. 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

 

A little unfair and not at all accurate.
Octogenarian, Brian Jarret has been a genuine continuous cruiser on a 'real' vintage boat for many years. I believe he is currently looking for a winter mooring.

 

52 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If this is the Brian I am thinking of he is far from a new boater and from the money he has spent on his boating being a cheap way of living would be well off the mark.  

Well I apologise to him if so, but if he just looked the Threads were right next to each other. Maybe he just wanted a bit of a rant to get it off his chest, So Sorry Brian if it is you.

Edited September 27, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Paul C]

7 hours ago, Brian jarrett said:

The changes proposed by CRT to the licensing structure where “continual cruisers” will not only pay an above inflation increase for the next 5 years on the “standard” license fee but also an annual surcharge are just one more attack on continuous cruisers ! This proposed increase and the surcharge are being justified on the flawed basis that we, the continuous cruisers, use more of the system and facilities than boats with a mooring !

According to CRT’s figures there are 5,000 continual cruisers against a total licensed boating community of 33,000. 

Most boats that come out of their moorings each year tend to cover far greater distances over the year and at higher speeds than a plodding itinerant boater !

At this time of austerity and in the middle of a nationwide cost of living crisis for CRT to propose these options directed at a minority group of possibly some of the poorest of our society, certainly a group living on low incomes, must call into question their management’s moral compass and it’s so called 'charitable' status !

 

But not all resources are (directly) linked to distance travelled, or locks used. For example water, elsan disposal, rubbish disposal. A moorer won't use those resources* while they're on their mooring, because they'll either be at home or they'll use the marina/mooring's resources instead. A CCer who also lives aboard all year will.

 

And its obviously true that the boat has to be SOMEWHERE while its licensed and on CRT waters, a CCer will ALWAYS be on the towpath, while a boat with a mooring will spend at least some of the time on its mooring.

 

*Excepting the few unserviced moorings. But then they may not live aboard.

 

I suppose there is an edge argument for those CCers who have a house and merely use the CCing option as a no-cost mooring option, possibly even complying by moving the boat around near their home?

[Steilsteven]

I see this "discussion" has gone round in circles since I last contributed, and, as usual, deteriorated into the usual bickering and holier than thou attitudes from the usual suspects.

 

 

 

[Jon57]

7 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Hope not as he can’t even be bothered to see if his subject matter is already being discussed on here. Probably a new Continuous Moorer that has watched too much Youtube and thinks it’s a cheap way of living being on the Canal.

You know nothing about the poster. He’s a long time genuine cc boater not a ccm over 80 yrs of age. He might have come across all wrong but his love of the canals and canals life is without question. Cut him some slack please. Thanks   

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

4 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

You know nothing about the poster. He’s a long time genuine cc boater not a ccm over 80 yrs of age. He might have come across all wrong but his love of the canals and canals life is without question. Cut him some slack please. Thanks   

I could really tell that by the post couldn’t I?

 He posted the same thing next to this thread, maybe he just wanted to have a rant and get something off his chest?

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Jon57]

Just now, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I could really tell that by the post couldn’t I?

 How do you know it’s him? He posted the same thing next to this thread, maybe he just wanted to have a rant?

 

🤪

[Guest]

Just now, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I could really tell that by the post couldn’t I?

 How do you know it’s him? He posted the same thing next to this thread, maybe he just wanted to have a rant?

 

 

And if he did so what?

 

How did it effect you exactly?

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Just now, M_JG said:

 

And if he did so what?

 

How did it effect you exactly?

 And how does a boat licence increase effect you?

[Guest]

Just now, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 And how does a boat licence increase effect you?

 

I wasnt talking about the increase. 

 

Nor were you.

 

 

[adam1uk]

5 hours ago, Rambling Boater said:

 

Tax payers will no longer be contributing to the maintenence

of tow paths which according to C&RT, millions of the general public  use every year,. Yet we, as boaters, still have to contribute.

 

For example, many of us have seen the damage cyclists can do to the tow paths, shouldnt they pay towards the upkeep?

 

CRT say they spend virtually nothing on towpaths.  All the money comes from sources like Sustrans, developers, local authorities etc.

[Rambling Boater]

56 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

CRT say they spend virtually nothing on towpaths.  All the money comes from sources like Sustrans, developers, local authorities etc.

 

That's interesting. Have you got the source for that info? Is that for all towpaths, or just in towns/cities?

[magnetman]

I want to buy shares in the bit between the footpath and the water. 

 

 

 

Clobber the blighters for mooring fees and watch the kerching roll in then sail away into the sunset on sloop to somewhere nice. 

 

 

innit

 

[Arthur Marshall]

5 hours ago, magnetman said:

Very good post Arthur. Thank you. 

 

 

We are both biased. I have always lived on boats both with moorings and without moorings and will continue to do so. I'll never be able to live on land. It can't happen. 

 

It doesn't matter. Nothing matters anyway but it does seem to me that living on boats will become more difficult in future. Maybe this isn't because of the bias caused by very cheap canal boat licences. 

 

I suppose its an inevitable part of change, which is the only constant. 

 

 

Must admit I envy you. I loved living on and still spend as much time as I can on it. I have an old friend now in his eighties who has lived on for at least forty years and who I can't see moving off. I simply couldn't due to the nature of my work. I don't see why living on within the rules should become more difficult, though doing it by fiddling them might.

[magnetman]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Must admit I envy you. I loved living on and still spend as much time as I can on it. I have an old friend now in his eighties who has lived on for at least forty years and who I can't see moving off. I simply couldn't due to the nature of my work. I don't see why living on within the rules should become more difficult, though doing it by fiddling them might.

 

I don't know. I've lived on boats since I was 20 and am now 49. Its my bag. 

 

I do have a mooring due to responsibilities around offspring but hopefully I can get away before long and do the natural thing which is to be itinerant. 

 

I'm knot normal. Knot at all (the avatar is a clue here) so probably have "shit in my eyes" to quote the French.

 

I do see the changes happening and think it might make it generally more awkward to live on the boat and be quiet than it used to be in the past.

 

I find some people are shouting too loudly about rights they don't have and it is my uneducated and clueless view that this will cause negative outcomes.

 

In reality all will be for the best in the best of all possible worlds and understanding is the booby prize.

Thats it.