Licences

[Creaking Gate]

The amount of times I've read that CART do nothing where i am. Nothing at all.  Its laughable.  Look at the accounts they publish each year.  Millions gets spent, and a fair proportion of fly tipping, vandalism, people cheating etc

 

....Or the conspiracy theories about how its all a divide and conquer plan by CART, whilst simultaneously shouting that they are stupid, and have no knowledge or skills anywhere. Clever enough for a nationwide conspiracy, too stupid to run a business. hmmm.

 

The reality is simple.  People don't want to pay more, some don't even want to pay. Anger follows.  Well, its catching up now and like you all say, no maintenance gets done.  Why, because there is no money and the world is expensive. If you thought this equation could be maintained forever - then you're going to be angry now. 

 

More and more people see the canal as cheap housing. Buy a boat, any boat - Live on it. Complain profusely, you shouldn't have to pay, but use more of everything pound for pound.  

 

A wide beam is twice the size of a NB. 

 

CC use the same facilities, the same ones everyone else does for a comparable tiny fee compared to the rest.

 

The other option is to move to land dwelling.  But its no cheaper.    

 

I sympathise because times are hard, money tight but it was bound to change post grant, and its probably long overdue if you are honest about it.

 

I'll be selling up, i can't afford it now (and it is a luxury) but at least the canal will continue. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Creaking Gate

[magnetman]

It is good to hear a point of view which is not fixed by personal circumstances. 

 

Ability to see the bigger picture and the reality is a Good Thing. 

 

Some people bleat on about the canals being in a parlous state because of incompetent management. I bet if one were to put these people in charge they would not know their arse from their elbow. 

 

Its a money thing. More money needed by the CRT. Not complex and now they have a captive audience to bleed let the game commence. 

 

[Sea Dog]

26 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 I think a lot of people are out of touch as to what a decent mooring costs, yes you can EOG in a farmers field, but few and far between and not secure. With the rise in the non-home mooring licence, this might mean Marina’s may up their prices? As @Arthur Marshall said previously a lot of CCers don't know how expensive a Mooring can be.

I'd suggest that, for the average boat in the average marina, £3k per annum won't be too far wide of the mark as a round figure for a working estimate.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Don't think you will find many moorings at £1200 - 1500. Perhaps very short boats..We  have been paying over  £1800 for a basic marina which is one of the cheapest..

 

I completely agree, but every time I say a mooring will cost £2500-£3000 (we were paying £3500 on the River Trent) several posters jump down my throat and say they have a mooring for £2.50 a year, and another paying £500 for a 'field mooring' etc etc .................

[Dave123]

On 19/09/2023 at 13:29, Arthur Marshall said:

I like the bit about some people not being happy about the increases. I'm trying to work out who are the over-joyed ones...

I imagine there are some wealthy weekend boaters, who think this change to licences will magically make the untidy boats they hate so much, dissappear. 

[haggis]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I completely agree, but every time I say a mooring will cost £2500-£3000 (we were paying £3500 on the River Trent) several posters jump down my throat and say they have a mooring for £2.50 a year, and another paying £500 for a 'field mooring' etc etc .................

and you believe them ?

[Dave123]

On 20/09/2023 at 09:43, magnetman said:

I wouldn't feel too sorry about someone with a hundred grand wide beam paying a bit more. I'm sure they can afford it..

 

For people who are on the breadline the state is there to help you and will do so it you need it. 

 

Apart from anything else the CRT should not be subsidising people who are renting the house out living on a boat.

This is not an appropriate allocation of limited funds. 

 

 

Exactly my thoughts. Charging widebeams more isn't really about the extra space or use of facilities that widebeams may or may not entail, it is simply the closest and easiest way for CRT to a means-tested licence increase, in which the more expensive boats pay more.

[magnetman]

Boat safety surveyors to do CPD and learn about valuing boats. Boat estimated value (to within ten grand) to be written down at time of inspection. Licence fee linked to boat value.

 

 

[LadyG]

20 hours ago, MartynG said:

The home mooring is already declared on the boaters online account for the boat. Although not the renewal date.

Insurance is declared including renewal date.

The BSS data is automatically noted on the account  by C&RT.

 

Some folks on this forum are suggesting very large supplements .

But no one really knows.

i expect some people may make false declarations.

.

Exactly how would one make false Dec's, do you mean entering a home mooring but not having a home mooring?  I thought CRT take a percentage of all moorings on their waters. 

Asking for a friend

 

[Dave123]

On 20/09/2023 at 08:40, magnetman said:

Of course the Gold Licence, which gives you Thames and CRT 24/7/365 is an elephant in this room as it may well end up being less costly than the upcoming cc er widebeam licence. 

 

Some work needed here to avoid evasive strategies. 

 

 

 

If the surcharges are significant then the Gold licence must either go up or be withdrawn. I would not be that surprised if the EA and the CRT got their heads together and decided to withdraw the Gold Licence quite soon..

 

 

 

I am sure they will just increase it, it is priced like an extra to whatever the equivalent CRT only licence would be anyway, so it wouldn't make sense to be cheaper than a CRT only licence 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Exactly how would one make false Dec's, do you mean entering a home mooring but not having a home mooring?  I thought CRT take a percentage of all moorings on their waters. 

Asking for a friend

 

come on, didn’t you have a home mooring? But didn’t?

a genuine mistake most likely 

but

it’s easy done with a simple ✔️

 

[magnetman]

Same with insurance but there will be random checks on this. 

[robtheplod]

This chaps not happy!

 

 

[magnetman]

I managed to watch it for about 1.5 seconds !

 

 

It isn't gentrification of canals. That is not what is happening and anyone who thinks it is is just ignorant. 

[Bee]

There will be a tipping point for many people who look at the cost of a mooring and the cost of a licence plus insurance and the BSS plus depreciation and ordinary running costs, diesel, batteries, gas, paint, docking, plus everything else and think that owning a boat is not good value for money especially if annual usage is a weekend cruise of 10 miles out and 10 miles back and a fortnight a year in a wet summer. Back in the early 1980's we did the Thames/Oxford/GU 'ring' and that worked out at approx £5 a mile. Not good value unless we lived on as well. Nowadays that would be very much more so it only becomes good (ish) value if you do live on . Expect to see more boats lived on and not always by people who only leave two holes in the bank when they are gone.

[Momac]

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Exactly how would one make false Dec's, do you mean entering a home mooring but not having a home mooring?  I thought CRT take a percentage of all moorings on their waters. 

Asking for a friend

 

 Some marinas pay a fee per mooring whether it is occupied or not. The customer does not pay C&RT directly.

[Alan de Enfield]

52 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought CRT take a percentage of all moorings on their waters.

 

Wrong.

Only marinas that have agreed to pay C&RT's NAA (and of course C&RT's own moorings)

[Momac]

54 minutes ago, LadyG said:

entering a home mooring but not having a home mooring? 

Yes

[Lady M]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Wrong.

Only marinas that have agreed to pay C&RT's NAA (and of course C&RT's own moorings)

Also mooring basins rented from CRT.

[Arthur Marshall]

37 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 Some marinas pay a fee per mooring whether it is occupied or not. The customer does not pay C&RT directly.

I do.

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I completely agree, but every time I say a mooring will cost £2500-£3000 (we were paying £3500 on the River Trent) several posters jump down my throat and say they have a mooring for £2.50 a year, and another paying £500 for a 'field mooring' etc etc .................

They forget the ancillary costs. I pay about £500 for my field mooring... And another £750 CRT mooring charge on top.

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I do.

Okay but I suspect you are not in a marina

3 hours ago, Creaking Gate said:

 

 

A wide beam is twice the size of a NB. 

 

Not all wide beams are twice a wide as a narrowboat

Not all wide beams are constant width  over most of their length like a narrowboat.

 

Displacement (weight) is a true measure of how much water a boat uses 

Perhaps the license fee should be based on that ?  

 

 

I hope to get a few more years in with the boat then we will go and do something involves more manageable costs.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Exactly how would one make false Dec's, do you mean entering a home mooring but not having a home mooring?  I thought CRT take a percentage of all moorings on their waters. 

Asking for a friend

 

I thought you had declared a home mooring and so lost out on the fuel subsidy for CCs 

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I thought you had declared a home mooring and so lost out on the fuel subsidy for CCs 

Yes I did, and even got accused of fraud by some idiot. I just glaze over when it comes to forms, I think someone on CRT asked where I was, I happened to be in or around the marina, I think it was an overstay or summat. The same overstay that has been documented on here every time some idiot wants to have a dig!

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yes I did, and even got accused of fraud by some idiot. I just glaze over when it comes to forms,

 

 

And who were you saying was the idiot?

 

 

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

This chaps not happy!

 

 

Only watched a bit before realising he's just an idiot on a rant. Licensed fees are cheap - end of. If you think it's too expensive try living in a house.