Gay community

[Peanut]

5 hours ago, wandering said:

It’s worth pointing out that not even 60 years ago—in my parents’ lifetime, in my lesbian aunts’ lifetime, maybe even in some of your lifetimes—heterosexuals put laws in place that would make me illegal. I could be punished, beaten and imprisoned. That isn’t ancient history. This still happens in some parts of the world. The reverberation of this regressive practice is still felt by people like me. It was your heterosexual police force who would entrap us like we were wild savages, they would raid our gathering spots, unable to leave us alone, veritably foaming at the mouth to oppress and subjugate. They would pretend to be like us so they could hurt us. Alan Turing helped Britain to win the Second World War and his reward from the heterosexual majority was castration. Truly and utterly shameful.  It was this society where even popular homosexuals feared being themselves. Kenneth Williams, who the British public adored for his role in the Carry On films and Just a Minute, could never feel truly comfortable with himself because of the society he was born in, despite the deep public adoration for him and his talent. I posit his profound self-loathing was created by a society that hated who he really was and loved his created persona on stage and film. When we are told to just integrate, I dare say why don’t you lot make a society that is welcoming and caring for people like me so that this so-called integration is possible? Why is it incumbent upon me to do that? You create laws to criminalise me, you castrate me, you threaten and hurt me. What are you doing to help me integrate? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. 
 

You forgot to mention the forced Sectioning and Electro Convulsive Therapy, meant to cure your aberrant behaviour.

 

Integration, involves acceptance, not mere tolerance.

 

5 hours ago, wandering said:

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Peanut
remove double post

[NB Esk]

I wonder if someone may be able to answer my question?  We used to have a different kind of pride in this country, it was known as “ wear your poppy with pride “.  This referenced people who had made a sacrifice in the defence of their country, in some cases becoming mentally or physically disabled, or even paying the ultimate sacrifice.

 

My question is, if the above people are entitled to just one day per year ( rememberance Sunday ), how come members of LGB are entitled to an entire month?

 

 

 

 

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

I wonder if someone may be able to answer my question?  We used to have a different kind of pride in this country, it was known as “ wear your poppy with pride “.  This referenced people who had made a sacrifice in the defence of their country, in some cases becoming mentally or physically disabled, or even paying the ultimate sacrifice.

 

My question is, if the above people are entitled to just one day per year ( rememberance Sunday ), how come members of LGB are entitled to an entire month?

 

 

Inflation. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

I wonder if someone may be able to answer my question?  We used to have a different kind of pride in this country, it was known as “ wear your poppy with pride “.  This referenced people who had made a sacrifice in the defence of their country, in some cases becoming mentally or physically disabled, or even paying the ultimate sacrifice.

 

My question is, if the above people are entitled to just one day per year ( rememberance Sunday ), how come members of LGB are entitled to an entire month?

 

 

 

 

So LGB ex service people can be extra proud by having a month and a day of course. Especially the ones kicked out for being gay in decades past.

Remembrance is a lot longer than one day any way. If the 11th November doesn't fall on a Sunday, then there are effectively two days, plus newsreaders, politicians and any one else on television, or in the public eye have to remember without fail to pin on a poppy for weeks before, or risk the Daily Mail's wrath.

[frahkn]

3 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand your question, tbh. 

Are you asking whether it is ok for a person to dress in such a way that their likely sexuality is discernible from their clothing and appearance? 

But whatever that question is asking, I think my feeling on it would be: why does it matter how someone wishes to present themselves in public? 

Surely it is their business, and no-one else's?

It may be that for some folks, they express their sexuality partly through their appearance- it is important them personally. That said, I imagine there should be some common sense limits- for both heterosexual and gay folks.

E.g. maybe its not ok to walk down the high street naked, or clad in a way that is likely to cause a breach of peace- that kind of thing.

But within some very broad limits, I don't know why any of us would be too concerned about whether a passing man is gay or not, or how he/she is dressed, or whether their appearance indicates their likely sexuality. 

 

 

My point is that I don't think (perhaps because I'll be 70 this year) that it's entirely "normal" for an individual to outwardly express their sexuality, of whatever flavour, in the street. Of course it is no one else's business but it will attract some attention, better  'not to scare the horses' as Nick put it.

 

 

[nicknorman]

Just now, frahkn said:

My point is that I don't think (perhaps because I'll be 70 this year) that it's entirely "normal" for an individual to outwardly express their sexuality, of whatever flavour, in the street. Of course it is no one else's business but it will attract some attention, better  'not to scare the horses' as Nick put it.

 

But, as was mentioned previously, you presumably think (because of your silence on the matter) it is normal and ok for women to dress to make themselves look sexually attractive to males, with clothing cut low at the chest and high at the crotch, wearing makeup, high heeled shoes etc most of which, it seems to me, is about expressing their sexuality in public.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

But, as was mentioned previously, you presumably think (because of your silence on the matter) it is normal and ok for women to dress to make themselves look sexually attractive to males, with clothing cut low at the chest and high at the crotch, wearing makeup, high heeled shoes etc most of which, it seems to me, is about expressing their sexuality in public.

 

I know lesbians who dress like that... 😉

[HenryFreeman]

6 minutes ago, frahkn said:

My point is that I don't think (perhaps because I'll be 70 this year) that it's entirely "normal" for an individual to outwardly express their sexuality, of whatever flavour, in the street. Of course it is no one else's business but it will attract some attention, better  'not to scare the horses' as Nick put it.

 

I think it's entirely natural and entirely part of nature to express either your sexuality or to dress up/behave in a way to attract a partner. Homosapiens and our forebears have been doing this for millennia and you see the birds and the bees doing this very thing too.

 

Might you take a look at the following, but be careful as it shows individuals outwardly expressing their sexuality...

 

 

[LadyG]

34 minutes ago, frahkn said:

My point is that I don't think (perhaps because I'll be 70 this year) that it's entirely "normal" for an individual to outwardly express their sexuality, of whatever flavour, in the street. Of course it is no one else's business but it will attract some attention, better  'not to scare the horses' as Nick put it.

 

 

If you look on YouTube you will find there are some people (not gay men) who appear to have had facial surgery, so others can identify them, as a particular type.

That seems extreme to me, but if a gay man for example wants to attract a gay mate at some time and deter the others he might dress appropriately. Not all gay men choose this option, some do, some don't. 

34 minutes ago, frahkn said:

My point is that I don't think (perhaps because I'll be 70 this year) that it's entirely "normal" for an individual to outwardly express their sexuality, of whatever flavour, in the street. Of course it is no one else's business but it will attract some attention, better  'not to scare the horses' as Nick put it.

 

 

You wear  trousers every day,  or shorts with a fly, this is expressing sexuality.

I buy ladies jeans and ladies shorts most of my clothes are not suitable for men, style and fit.

My father used to choose all my clothes after my mother died. He even cut my hair with clippers!

I spent most of my pocket money on buying something nice.

Edited September 5, 2023 by LadyG

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

5 hours ago, LadyG said:

Read all the drivel and targetted personal attacks which have no place on this boating forum.

And maybe lock landings are no place to moor your boat and paint it, maybe spend less time on here and move your boat a bit more👍😂

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, NB Esk said:

I wonder if someone may be able to answer my question?  We used to have a different kind of pride in this country, it was known as “ wear your poppy with pride “.  This referenced people who had made a sacrifice in the defence of their country, in some cases becoming mentally or physically disabled, or even paying the ultimate sacrifice.

 

My question is, if the above people are entitled to just one day per year ( rememberance Sunday ), how come members of LGB are entitled to an entire month?

 

 

 

 

It could be argued that we have had remembrance Sunday and similar occasions for over 100yrs but the persecution of people for being homosexual at least in the legal sense has only stopped recently, there is still, of course,  a fair amount of general discrimination in society, so maybe the idea of pride month is a expression of new freedoms and as society finally accepts the existence of homosexuality it will eventually fade into the background.

 

Interestingly my Dad who was one of 7 brothers all of whom who fought in WW2 (plus sisters who served) refused to take part in any sort rememberance service (or buy a poppy) because he felt it celebrated war

[Guest]

Just today in our Asda car park:-

 

Two young women holding hands walking through the cars.

 

Young lad about 10 or 11 with his parents and siblings, spots them and shouts 'looka dad two lesbos', cue sniggering parents. No attempt to correct him at all.

 

We still have a long way to go.

[LadyG]

13 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

 

Interestingly my Dad who was one of 7 brothers all of whom who fought in WW2 (plus sisters who served) refused to take part in any sort rememberance service (or buy a poppy) because he felt it celebrated war

No way.

Its remembering and thanking those who paid dearly 

To ignore the event is to ignore the sacrifice they  made to keep us safe. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by LadyG

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, M_JG said:

Just today in our Asda car park:-

 

Two young women holding hands walking through the cars.

 

Young lad about 10 or 11 with his parents and siblings, spots them and shouts 'looka dad two lesbos', cue sniggering parents. No attempt to correct him at all.

 

We still have a long way to go.

 

Yes, unfortunately some people's attitudes are firmly stuck 50 years ago, when things like the Black and White Minstrels were still popular... 😞

 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No way.

Its remembering and thanking those who paid dearly 

To ignore the event is to ignore the sacrifice they  made to keep us safe. 

 

Who are you to tell those who actually suffered how they should -- or should not -- remember the war?

 

You do what you want, but they have a damn sight more right to choose for themselves than you do... 😞

Edited September 5, 2023 by IanD

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, NB Esk said:

I wonder if someone may be able to answer my question?  We used to have a different kind of pride in this country, it was known as “ wear your poppy with pride “.  This referenced people who had made a sacrifice in the defence of their country, in some cases becoming mentally or physically disabled, or even paying the ultimate sacrifice.

 

My question is, if the above people are entitled to just one day per year ( rememberance Sunday ), how come members of LGB are entitled to an entire month?

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure about being entitled by some sort of government decree.

I just assume they have a  society which has decided they should have a month of flag waving, or cake making.

I don't see any harm in it, they are raising awareness, just like CRT did with blue signs. The only people who will really be interested are those who are

 already interested.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Yes, unfortunately some people's attitudes are firmly stuck 50 years ago, when things like the Black and White Minstrels were still popular... 😞

 

 

Who are you to tell those who actually suffered how they should -- or should not -- remember the war?

 

You do what you want, but they have a damn sight more right to choose for themselves than you do... 😞

 

Where I live I would describe as about the least cosmopolitan as you can get. Its very 'traditional' and still to a degree rooted in its mining past.

 

We have an extrenly low level of black and asian folk and had/have the lowest level of immigration (not born in the UK) in the country at the last or very recent census.

 

So yes acceptance of folk who dont conform to what some see as 'the norm' is at a pretty low level around these parts.

[LadyG]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Yes, unfortunately some people's attitudes are firmly stuck 50 years ago, when things like the Black and White Minstrels were still popular... 😞

 

 

Who are you to tell those who actually suffered how they should -- or should not -- remember the war?

 

You do what you want, but they have a damn sight more right to choose for themselves than you do... 😞

There is no celebration of war in the remembrance ceremony.

Almost everyone has been affected by the two World Wars even if they were not personally involved themselves, I don't know why you should assume I am an exception in this regard.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

There is no celebration of war in the remembrance ceremony.

Almost everyone has been affected by the two World Wars even if they were not personally involved themselves, I don't know why you should assume I am an exception in this regard.

45 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Interestingly my Dad who was one of 7 brothers all of whom who fought in WW2 (plus sisters who served) refused to take part in any sort rememberance service (or buy a poppy) because he felt it celebrated war

No way.

Its remembering and thanking those who paid dearly 

To ignore the event is to ignore the sacrifice they  made to keep us safe. 

 

That looks very much like you telling somebody who was actually in the war that he should be remembering it positively, even though he doesn't see it that way. If so, that's terribly arrogant and self-entitled... 😞

 

Many other people -- especially those who fought in the war -- feel the same as he did. Should they also do the same as you because you think they should?

Edited September 5, 2023 by IanD

[tree monkey]

32 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No way.

Its remembering and thanking those who paid dearly 

To ignore the event is to ignore the sacrifice they  made to keep us safe. 

Like I said my Dad held that opinion, he lived through it and saw the effect on his family, I am happy for you to hold a different opinion, but are you going to deny my dad's right to hold his opinion based on his lived experience.

 

I might also add an uncle who fought in the navy also refused to take part for similar reasons, are you going to deny his opinion on this as well

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

No way.

Its remembering and thanking those who paid dearly 

To ignore the event is to ignore the sacrifice they  made to keep us safe. 

 

That looks very much like you telling somebody who was actually in the war that he should be remembering it positively, even though he doesn't see it that way. If so, that's terribly arrogant and self-entitled... 😞

Tree Monkey said it was his father who felt this way, a very unusual stance. The general view is that rememberance is not to glorify war in any way.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Tree Monkey said it was his father who felt this way, a very unusual stance. The general view is that rememberance is not to glorify war in any way.

 

I think you might find that amongst actual Veterens that opinion may be and have been in the past way more common than you think.

 

I came into contact with a number in the course of my job and a good few felt this way.

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

I think you might find that amongst actual Veterens that opinion may be and have been in the past way more common than you think.

 

I came into contact with a number in the course of my job and a good few felt this way.

As did my father-in-law.

 

18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Tree Monkey said it was his father who felt this way, a very unusual stance. The general view is that rememberance is not to glorify war in any way.

 

That's your view.

[Machpoint005]

39 minutes ago, LadyG said:

There is no celebration of war in the remembrance ceremony. <<

 

Then why all the military uniforms and martial music?

 

 

My father was too young to serve in WW2 and his father was too young for the Great War.

 

My father-in-law, and his brother, both served in Bomber Command. Neither of them ever participated in a remembrance parade because the memories were too painful.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

27 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Then why all the military uniforms and martial music?

 

 

My father was too young to serve in WW2 and his father was too young for the Great War.

 

My father-in-law, and his brother, both served in Bomber Command. Neither of them ever participated in a remembrance parade because the memories were too painful.

 

 

 

and I strongly suspect they were lifelong sufferers of some manifestation of PTSD as we now know it. I have just finished transcribing my father's log book and diaries, so will take no lecturing from LadyG. I also get the impression that the stresses may well have made them lifetime alcoholics. (not drunks, just addicted to alcohol).

 

If they think/thought it glorified war, then I am happy to accept it.

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, nicknorman said:

But, as was mentioned previously, you presumably think (because of your silence on the matter) it is normal and ok for women to dress to make themselves look sexually attractive to males, with clothing cut low at the chest and high at the crotch, wearing makeup, high heeled shoes etc most of which, it seems to me, is about expressing their sexuality in public.

They may be making themselves attractive to females ...