Poor Maintenance Hire Boat experience - any views?

[Ceres Two]

Hi - Wanting to experience NBs again after having a  family boat for many years. My wife never having been away overnight, we hired a 46ft for the week. We are actively looking for a boat to buy and hoped this would encourage us in our search.  After 20mins we were on the way. Eventually low charge light came on - inverter/battery panel only, not on engine panel. Nothing worked off inverter that evening so we got going next day and did three hours, still low charge light on.  Then we got a load of steam so stopped. No overheat light lit on engine panel. Called engineer who diagnosed belt - Belt was frayed, stretched and cracked and had dropped off.  He reset inverter and no low charge - Set us off again.  Within half an hour steam again.  Called engineer. Diagnosed low water, topped up and restarted. Then water pipe seen to be cracked and leaking - needed to cut off four inches of pipe as perished.   Also repositioned alternator - one of the bolts had not been tightened back up on his first visit and nut was languishing in the engine bay.  Set us going again  and asked if we would check the engine coolant in the morning.  I did so and we put 4 litres of water in.  We lost effectively a days cruising and our faith in the boat so returned to the hire base a day early and were glad to get away.  The company has not responded to three emails since we returned home. 

[Puffling]

Name and shame, name and shame...

[Tracy D'arth]

So what are you asking?   You got the experience and diagnostic knowledge for free, 

[Ceres Two]

I was hoping for some thoughts on whether this is the norm for hire boats, whether we might have expected an apology, perhaps even some form of compensation.

Yes indeed the experience and diagnostic knowledge was free. However I was concerned that it was me that pointed out the bolt holding the alternator retaining bolt had lost its nut and was spinning freely.  I also declined the engineers suggestion, over the phone,  on the second breakdown, to immediately remove the hot engine coolant cap and check the level.  

[Tracy D'arth]

Ah, compo culture.

And the company was..................................?

[Ceres Two]

I'd rather not name and shame, rather seek your views as to whether this the norm for hire boats and any views on how the hire company might have responded. Hiring is new to us.  

[haggis]

I don't think this is normal for hire boats and I can't think of any of the big companies sending a boat out in that condition..

[cuthound]

8 minutes ago, Ceres Two said:

I'd rather not name and shame, rather seek your views as to whether this the norm for hire boats and any views on how the hire company might have responded. Hiring is new to us.  

 

I hired annually from 1973 - 1991, when I bought a share in my first boat and only had one call-out.

 

However hire companies have taken a severe beating in recent years, firstly with COVID and more recently CRT's mid season stoppages, so perhaps their maintenance regime is being cut to keep costs down?

[Paul C]

IMHO not normal to have repeated breakdowns and missed/misdiagnosis - normally the engineers with hire boat firms are spot-on.

 

It IS normal to send boats out with faults, then "let them" break down, then travel and do the repair during the week. There simply isn't enough time to do proper repairs on a turnaround day. Sometimes the boat might not be booked out for a week or so, and then it MIGHT get looked at and any known issues addressed, or preventative maintenance done.

 

As with all things in life, there's good and bad hire boat firms - let me guess, you didn't pay that much for the holiday and chose based on price?

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Ceres Two said:

I'd rather not name and shame, rather seek your views as to whether this the norm for hire boats and any views on how the hire company might have responded. Hiring is new to us.  

 

It will very much depend upon the company and, if multi-base, the management of those bases. Boats will always break down, but from what you say, it seems that no half decent engineer looked at the boat on turnround day. Name & shame, otherwise noting will improve. I think the leats you should have got was an apology. However, it was your decision to return it a day early, so not the company's decision. You should not expect anything for your own decision.

 

 

[Paul C]

51 minutes ago, Ceres Two said:

Eventually low charge light came on - inverter/battery panel only, not on engine panel. Nothing worked off inverter that evening so we got going next day and did three hours, still low charge light on.  Then we got a load of steam so stopped. 

 

Often hire boat firms have to deal with vague or bizarre call outs or descriptions of faults - and a call out is for "nothing" or a misunderstanding of how a boat works - normally something they explained at handover. It sounds like you at least identified the issue, but absolutely spanked the batteries until it actually broke down.....

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Often hire boat firms have to deal with vague or bizarre call outs or descriptions of faults - and a call out is for "nothing" or a misunderstanding of how a boat works - normally something they explained at handover. It sounds like you at least identified the issue, but absolutely spanked the batteries until it actually broke down.....

 

I don't think so, if the batteries were well charged and in good condition when it left the yard. The belt had probably been slipping for weeks, so the batteries were well discharged when the OP took the boat over. Unfortunately, we have not been given a timeline to judge what happened, but as an ex hire fleet engineering foreman I doubt the fleet has an engineer to look at the boats on turnround and probably the engineer who visited was a subcontractor.

 

I do agree with your comments about hiring on cost, though.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, Ceres Two said:

I'd rather not name and shame, rather seek your views as to whether this the norm for hire boats and any views on how the hire company might have responded. Hiring is new to us.  

 

To answer your question, no its not normal. Hire boats are usually maintained to perfection as the last thing a hire company wants is a customer out on a boat that has broken down. First class way to trash their reputation.

 

Which is why everyone is so interested in finding out who this cowboy hire firm is.

[Arthur Marshall]

26 minutes ago, Ceres Two said:

I was hoping for some thoughts on whether this is the norm for hire boats, whether we might have expected an apology, perhaps even some form of compensation.

Yes indeed the experience and diagnostic knowledge was free. However I was concerned that it was me that pointed out the bolt holding the alternator retaining bolt had lost its nut and was spinning freely.  I also declined the engineers suggestion, over the phone,  on the second breakdown, to immediately remove the hot engine coolant cap and check the level.  

Not tightening nuts is normal boat engineering policy, in my experience.

[Ken X]

Having hired for many years,and continue to do so, we have only had one boat like that.  We never used them again and the company soon went under. 

 

Yes we have had to call the yard on occasion. Once for a smoking battery and once for a boiler issue which was sorted over the phone.  Ran out of gas one January on a boat using an Alde Comfort boiler but met the yard engineer at a nearby road and restocked.  Had a starter motor pack up in Nuneaton but again we were sorted within a day.  With the one exception we have always found the yard staff very helpful on the phone and have no complaints. 

We appreciate the boats are worked hard and small niggles like the stove ignition not working we tend to ignore.  We get more problems from stoppages whilst we are out than boat problems these days.

[pearley]

Just had a look out old log book and in 18 hires from 1978 to 1996, 14 had breakdowns of one sort or another, mainly charging problems. In one I had to tell the engineer how a split charge relay should be wired. One boat from Coles Morton Marine in Wigan had 5 breakdowns, all but one down to poor maintenance. We did negotiate a refund of one days hire.

And these were not cheap companies, 

Edited September 3, 2023 by pearley

[IanD]

In my experience, that kind of terrible service is not common with hire boat companies, at least not nowadays, but then I tend to choose the ones with good reputations and higher-quality boats who are not the cheapest -- and maybe some of the worst ones (see below) are no longer trading?

 

The worst callout I had (failed AC power) was a boat with a battery problem, the yard sent an engineer with new batteries within about an hour of me reporting it. Oh, and one with a leaky stern gland that consumed a lot of grease every night to stop the drips. And one which made a noise like a bag of bolts in a tumble drier at low rpm, presumably a failing drive plate. All of which might be expected from not having enough time to do proper fixes in a few hours turnaround time, but none bad enough to spoil a holiday.

 

I did have one similarly bad experience to the OP's many years ago with a boat from the now-defunct Gregory's Canal Cruisers in Wolverhampton; that was cheap, and broke down multiple times... 😞

Edited September 3, 2023 by IanD

[Guest]

Never had this with any boat we have hired, either canals nor broads boats.

 

We did have issues with a boat a couple of years ago but they were not maintenance related.

 

I have however spoken to other hire boaters whilst on holiday who have broken down or something on the boat isn't working correctly, usually battery related.

[Paul C]

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think so, if the batteries were well charged and in good condition when it left the yard. The belt had probably been slipping for weeks, so the batteries were well discharged when the OP took the boat over. Unfortunately, we have not been given a timeline to judge what happened, but as an ex hire fleet engineering foreman I doubt the fleet has an engineer to look at the boats on turnround and probably the engineer who visited was a subcontractor.

 

I do agree with your comments about hiring on cost, though.

 

Of course you're right - with no battery monitor, there is no way to know if a hirer ruins batteries or not. The basic rule of thumb (do a decent day's cruising to keep them charged up) can't really apply if the belt isn't there......

[Ken X]

6 minutes ago, M_JG said:

I have however spoken to other hire boaters whilst on holiday who have broken down or something on the boat isn't working correctly, usually battery related.

This is a good point. Many hirers have not grasped the concept of a finite amount of electricity, or where it comes from.

We usually have a quick survey of a hire boat, pop the breaker on the Freezer coz we ain't never gonna use that.  Unplug the TV and aerial booster for the same reason and generally minimise our use of power.  We then manage days where we don't move by running the engine to sort the hot water and generate some power.  We keep an eye on battery voltage and inverter controls and manage accordingly.  We have met hirers who park up for a couple of days or more, don't run the engine, except for a short time to get hot water, and are wondering what the beeping noise is. 

The same for water.  Met a hire boat at a water point this year who had run dry.  They asked what the whining noise was that started when the water stopped.  Turned out the poor water pump had been running dry for over 12 hrs. 

It is a lot to take on when hiring for the first time but a bit of research would improve your luck no end and prevent avoidable failures.

[Tony Brooks]

If those comparatively small problems made the OP want to return the boat a day early, I wonder if they are cut out for owning a boat.

[agg221]

As a poor student/group of friends with student debt we always hired on price. This was from 1993 to 1998. We hired cheap, we got cheap, and they broke down. On every boat I expected the engine to need daily attention - checking coolant and oil, topping up as necessary, a quick look over for anything that looked loose or leaking, greasing the stern gland etc. It's habitual. If we (usually I) couldn't lash it up, we called out the engineer and it got lashed up enough to get us going again. The furthest we were from safety was halfway across a canal, so we never worried about it. Issues we couldn't just sort out included:

 

A cracked shower pump hose which we noticed when the carpet at the stern got wet underfoot. Hose wasn't long enough to trim so engineer needed for a new hose. It took the rest of the trip to dry out with the carpet up.

A constantly dripping shower which periodically got the floor outside the shower compartment wet as water got walked through the boat when people used the wash basin.

A broken fridge which filled up with water in the drip tray.

Assurance that there was no way we could run the boat out of diesel. We ran the boat out of diesel coming back from Ellesmere Port, somewhere near Golden Nook. We got a tow from another hire boat and filled up at Chas Hardern's.

The hire company attempted a complete engine swap between the previous hire and us picking up. They didn't complete it; we lost the Saturday and when we set off on Sunday they hadn't done any adjustments. Ultimate consequence was that the braking band on the gearbox was out of adjustment and slipped, eventually getting too hot and cracking in half somewhere up the Caldon I think. Nothing they could do about it so we did the remainder of the trip without reverse, perfecting the strapping technique for entering locks in the process.

 

All of the above issues, with the exception of the first (which was Union Canal Carriers' Great Britain), were with the now defunct Middlewich Narrowboats. We got a very negative attitude from the owner who attempted to refuse to refund our deposit on the last one, despite the fact that the issues were clearly down to the company. Fortunately, one of our party worked for Canal Boat. I can't quite remember what he said to the owner but I know the deposit got refunded.

 

On a practical level, only the last one was actually an issue. The others were minor, easily fixed and had no real effect. Losing the first half day did impact our plans (I have still never boated into Liverpool) and If we hadn't been reasonably confident, and experienced, the loss of reverse would have been game over. The attempt to blame the hirers because of the assumption that they were young and therefore easy to manipulate was also unpleasant. We hired the following year from AngloWelsh (being a bit less poor by that stage!) and the boats were middle of the road, perfectly sound and we had no issues in a fortnight.

 

The children being old enough to try boating and see if they enjoyed it, we hired again in 2019. Again a cheap boat - by then named Molly but actually an original 1970s AngloWelsh hire boat, with original fit-out and engine. Yes it might have broken down; yes the wooden cabin leaked a bit when it rained hard, but it was brilliant and if we had been quicker off the mark we would have bought Molly when the owner packed up the hire business as a consequence of COVID.

 

Edit: there was another one which was from the successor to Gregory's Canal Cruisers - we were doing the BCN challenge and only got a few miles up the W&E before reverse failed during a de-weeding manoeuvre. Had to bring it back and swap it for their other boat and start again, which resulted in doing the Wolverhampton 21 four times in two days. Their comment - we didn't think anyone would want to go into Birmingham when there's the lovely Staffs. & Worcs. to cruise!

 

If you book a 2* B&B you don't expect a 5* hotel. With realistic expectations, you can still have a great time. The thing to remember with canal boats is that usually when something breaks down, your distance to safety is the distance to the bank, so there is no need to lose confidence in them, just keep going and cross your fingers!

 

Alec

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by agg221

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Ceres Two said:

I'd rather not name and shame, rather seek your views as to whether this the norm for hire boats and any views on how the hire company might have responded. Hiring is new to us.  

I would not think this in normal, I meet a few newby hires, they seem competent, and their boats are moving.

I might have pulled one off a sandbank, but I don't think that's anything extraordinary. I see Shire Cruisers who tend to move around, and the ones on the Chesterfield who just potter.

If it was so bad you returned the boat and left, I don't know whether you were

1) unlucky, (as newby boaters will meet trouble others can cope with DAMHIK)

2)  very picky

3) justified.

Sorry this did not work out for you.

Edited September 3, 2023 by LadyG

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would not think this in normal, I meet a few newby hires, they seem competent, and their boats are moving.

I might have pulled one off a sandbank, but I don't think that's anything extraordinary. I see Shire Cruisers who tend to move around, and the ones on the Chesterfield who just potter.

If it was so bad you returned the boat and left, I don't know whether you were

1) unlucky, (as newby boaters will meet trouble others can cope with DAMHIK)

2)  very picky

3) justified.

Sorry this did not work out for you.

 

All of your list, I reckon. 

 

But 1) in particular. It seems the vee belt had come off and was lying in the bilge. Pretty much any seasoned boater would have sussed this in an instant and found the vee belt, and probably levered it back on.

 

Boating is very much a 'hands on' thing. Being resourceful and inventive to overcome a massive spectrum of minor obstacles is all part of the enjoyment of boating for me. If this sort of thing wrecks a holiday for the OP, then mebbe boating isn't for them. 

 

 

[LadyG]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

All of your list, I reckon. 

 

But 1) in particular. It seems the vee belt had come off and was lying in the bilge. Pretty much any seasoned boater would have sussed this in an instant and found the vee belt, and probably levered it back on.

 

Boating is very much a 'hands on' thing. Being resourceful and inventive to overcome a massive spectrum of minor obstacles is all part of the enjoyment of boating for me. If this sort of thing wrecks a holiday for the OP, then mebbe boating isn't for them. 

 

 

But they don't all know anything about boats. I asked a boater yesterday if I could help (down engine hole).

Wife asked the boss who said the drive belt was loose?

Anyway, obviously sorted. I'm not sure I've even got one, and certainly don't carry a spare!