Finding contractors in London for gas and properller shaft works

[gaetano]

Hello all. Wannabe-boater newbie here. Please forgive mi ignorance in all things nautical - this is my first post 🙂

 

As part of the buying process for a collingwood widebeam, I have had a survey carried out, which recommended small adjustments, and two slightly larger ones, which are: 1. review of the safety of the lpg piping/installation, adding piping fittings and replacing a few connectors and 2. having a flexible-coupling installed on the propeller shaft, to avoid damage to the gearbox in case the propeller gets obstructed (I know it seems unusual that this was not installed in the 1st place).

I have sent half a dozen mails requesting quotes, but so far the responses I received have been negative - everybody seems to be either out of business or very very busy.

Would anyone have recommendations for contractors/companies who would we willing to provide me quotes for those two jobs?

I have seen there are "directory" pages on this forum, but they do not seem to allow filtering based on competence or location...

The boat is currently moored around Uxbridge.

 

Thanks

Gaetano

[Tonka]

So have you asked Uxbridge boats ?

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, gaetano said:

Hello all. Wannabe-boater newbie here. Please forgive mi ignorance in all things nautical - this is my first post 🙂

 

As part of the buying process for a collingwood widebeam, I have had a survey carried out, which recommended small adjustments, and two slightly larger ones, which are: 1. review of the safety of the lpg piping/installation, adding piping fittings and replacing a few connectors and 2. having a flexible-coupling installed on the propeller shaft, to avoid damage to the gearbox in case the propeller gets obstructed (I know it seems unusual that this was not installed in the 1st place).

I have sent half a dozen mails requesting quotes, but so far the responses I received have been negative - everybody seems to be either out of business or very very busy.

Would anyone have recommendations for contractors/companies who would we willing to provide me quotes for those two jobs?

I have seen there are "directory" pages on this forum, but they do not seem to allow filtering based on competence or location...

The boat is currently moored around Uxbridge.

 

Thanks

Gaetano

 

Can't help with contractors and I doubt many members here can either - London is not a place many of us would visit. Usually The London Boaters Facebook page is recommended for such things. I would suggest that you forget London and look further north up the GU where there are not the same problems with ULEZ and co.

 

Flexible couplings are NOT used for the reason you give. They are used to allow the engine to jump about a bit on its soft mounts to minimize shaft and bearing wear. In fact a boat with solid engine mounts would not use such couplings.

 

Flexible couplings are NOT used for the reason you give. They are used to allow the engine to jump about a bit on its soft mounts to minimize shaft and bearing wear. In fact a boat with solid engine mounts would not use such couplings.

 

The BSS requires the minimum number of gas pipe fittings, so why the surveyor is asking for more I have no idea. As for the connectors, I have no idea what he is on about. Gas appliance connectors are ordinary gas fittings so what needs checking there is open to question as long as a gas tightness test has been done.

 

Remember surveyors cover their backs and any "faults" (note the parentheses) they list give you the potential to ask for a price reduction. Post photos of the "faults" and we may be able to advise. I suspect you may be taking the comments too literally, but if the surveyor did not do a gas soundness test then get one done. Any Gas Safe registered engineer ENDORSED LPG & MARINE can do it. Look on the Gas Safe register website.

 

 

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, gaetano said:

Hello all. Wannabe-boater newbie here. Please forgive mi ignorance in all things nautical - this is my first post 🙂

 

As part of the buying process for a collingwood widebeam, I have had a survey carried out, which recommended small adjustments, and two slightly larger ones, which are: 1. review of the safety of the lpg piping/installation, adding piping fittings and replacing a few connectors and 2. having a flexible-coupling installed on the propeller shaft, to avoid damage to the gearbox in case the propeller gets obstructed (I know it seems unusual that this was not installed in the 1st place).

I have sent half a dozen mails requesting quotes, but so far the responses I received have been negative - everybody seems to be either out of business or very very busy.

Would anyone have recommendations for contractors/companies who would we willing to provide me quotes for those two jobs?

I have seen there are "directory" pages on this forum, but they do not seem to allow filtering based on competence or location...

The boat is currently moored around Uxbridge.

 

Thanks

Gaetano

 

Welcome to the forum, the world of boating and to customer services as they were in the 1950s.

 

'Getting quotes' doesn't really work where boats are concerned. You have to find someone you think can do the work, then set about persuading them you are a suitable customer. This can take a while. 

 

 

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

It  is almost invariably harder to find suitable engineers in London itself.

 

AS you start to move away from London I would suggest you have more chance of finding what you want, and potentially at a more reasonable cost.

 

Uxbridge has just been mentioned, but moving North there is P&S Marine at Cassio Bridge or Cow Roast Marine Engineering on Tring summit.

 

And to make it look more likely that you are serious about using their services don't just email them, but pick up a phone and speak to them.  This will allow you to make sure both sides know what is being asked for, and it takes them less time to talk to you than to compose an email.

[magnetman]

Worth asking Winkwell marina. I've not been that way for a number of yars but it always seemed like a well sorted boatyard. Just other side of Hemel. 

[Tonka]

Could also try T Norris and sons at Isleworth 

https://shop.tnorrismarine.co.uk/

[magnetman]

I thought Norris had moved. South coast or something. 

 

 

They have 

 

T. Norris Marine Ltd

Unit 17 St. James Industrial Estate

Westhampnett Road

Chichester

West Sussex

PO19 7JU

[gaetano]

Thanks for all the tips!

 

@Tonka I have not yet contacted Uxbridge as I could only find a phone number, on a page which stated they're closed on Mondays - but will call them asap.

 

@Tony Brooks interesting point about flexible coupling - it might explain why it was not fitted in the first place. Still, if it's something which is worth doing, and I can get the seller to discount the cost from the sale price, I'd go for having it installed.

The seller did most of the fitting himself, which might explain why he missed things such as proper pipe fittings spacing - not sure why previous bss certificators missed that though. As for the "connectors", sorry about using a generic term, english is not my mother tongue. The survey report mentioned hosetails and drive clips - as well as there being smell of gas in the locker.

 

I generally prefer to initiate communications by email (professional habits of an software engineer), but will switch to phone calls, as suggested.

 

 

 

 

[Tonka]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I thought Norris had moved. South coast or something. 

 

 

They have 

 

T. Norris Marine Ltd

Unit 17 St. James Industrial Estate

Westhampnett Road

Chichester

West Sussex

PO19 7JU

When did that happen. I moved from down south 2020 and they were still at Isleworth then.

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, gaetano said:

Thanks for all the tips!

 

@Tonka I have not yet contacted Uxbridge as I could only find a phone number, on a page which stated they're closed on Mondays - but will call them asap.

 

@Tony Brooks interesting point about flexible coupling - it might explain why it was not fitted in the first place. Still, if it's something which is worth doing, and I can get the seller to discount the cost from the sale price, I'd go for having it installed.

The seller did most of the fitting himself, which might explain why he missed things such as proper pipe fittings spacing - not sure why previous bss certificators missed that though. As for the "connectors", sorry about using a generic term, english is not my mother tongue. The survey report mentioned hosetails and drive clips - as well as there being smell of gas in the locker.

 

I generally prefer to initiate communications by email (professional habits of an software engineer), but will switch to phone calls, as suggested.

 

 

Are you sure that someone has not misidentified a fuel line as a gas line? I think using a hose tail, hose and whatever drive clips (worm drive hose clips?) is never allowed as a gas joint inside a boat unless it is a portable appliance. The only hoses are usually the premade high pressure hoses between gas cylinder and regulator.

 

Can I assume that by pipe fitting you mean the pipe clips that hold the pipes secure onto the cabin linings and bulkheads. If so it is usually an easy DIY job to add a few more as required, especially with an electric screwdriver. I found this on the forum  from 2013:

 

It is a best practice recommendation that...
"To avoid vibration damage and early deterioration, we recommend that the fixings are not spaced more than 500mm (20 in) apart." (chapter 7.8, p23 of 2nd edition http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/180428/bss%20guide%202005%20complete%20web.pdf)

 

As you say, it is a requirement that...
"All LPG pipe joints must have fixing clips attached no more than 150mm (6 in) from each joint connection and must not move under light manual force" (7.8.4)

 

500 mm is quite a distance so as long as your pipe clips conform to the 500mm and 150mm from each joint you may not need to worry about it.

 

[magnetman]

19 minutes ago, Tonka said:

When did that happen. I moved from down south 2020 and they were still at Isleworth then.

Very recently. Possibly even 2023 but I'm not sure exactly. 

[Slim]

How is the shaft/gearbox output presently connected? 

[David Schweizer]

In the twenty years that we owned Helvetia, I dont remember ever contacting a boat engineer or Gas installer etc. by email or even phone call. Most or these people are single person outfits, and if they are any good, will be busy doing a job.  I found the  best solution was always to ask around and visit them, remembering that you may have to wait a while until there is a convenient pause in the job they are doing. I may have been lucky, but I never asked for a quote, maybe just a rough estimate.  I found that I was always charged a reaonable amount for the job and always payed up quickly. These people have good memories and those that are any good, always have plenty of work. Poor payers can find that they are "too busy" when you call again for another job to be done,

[Bod]

19 hours ago, gaetano said:

Hello all. Wannabe-boater newbie here. Please forgive mi ignorance in all things nautical - this is my first post 🙂

 

As part of the buying process for a collingwood widebeam, I have had a survey carried out, which recommended small adjustments, and two slightly larger ones, which are: 1. review of the safety of the lpg piping/installation, adding piping fittings and replacing a few connectors and 2. having a flexible-coupling installed on the propeller shaft, to avoid damage to the gearbox in case the propeller gets obstructed (I know it seems unusual that this was not installed in the 1st place).

I have sent half a dozen mails requesting quotes, but so far the responses I received have been negative - everybody seems to be either out of business or very very busy.

Would anyone have recommendations for contractors/companies who would we willing to provide me quotes for those two jobs?

I have seen there are "directory" pages on this forum, but they do not seem to allow filtering based on competence or location...

The boat is currently moored around Uxbridge.

 

Thanks

Gaetano

You said this boat is a "self fit out" by the current/previous owner, how old is the boat?

 

Bod

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, Bod said:

You said this boat is a "self fit out" by the current/previous owner, how old is the boat?

 

Bod

I know whats coming next

[Bod]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I know whats coming next

Hopefully a few pictures of said boat and faults?

 

Bod

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, Bod said:

Hopefully a few pictures of said boat and faults?

 

Bod

 

Nope. I'll kick off then. Depending on the build date, a discussion about whether it needs RCD certification, RCR certification, or nothing! 

 

My money is on it being exempt. Just a guess though. 

 

 

[gaetano]

Thanks for all the tips about DIY-ing the repairs and the best way of getting boating engineers to actually carry out work, but atm I also need quotes, as the purpose is to negotiate a discount before finalizing the sale.

 

The boat is from 2017. The seller has been the sole owner.

 

These are the pictures from the survey report:

[dmr]

If I understand your photo then that gas regulator is a DIY repair, just buy a new regulator with the correct hosetail and put it on with a new jubile clip. Regulators should be replaced every few years anyway. The engineers travel time will cost much more than the job.

 

Fitting the coupling is a modification/upgrade/design change and not a repair so the seller has no obligation to pay. You can't buy a cheap old boat and expect the seller to pay to have it upgraded to a bigger better boat 😀.

 

I suspect that few engineers are willing to spend time preparing quotes for work that they might never get, and as every boat is different the quotes are not reliable, fixing boats is not like taking a Ford Focus to a garage.

[TheBiscuits]

22 minutes ago, gaetano said:

atm I also need quotes, as the purpose is to negotiate a discount before finalizing the sale.

 

Did the surveyor not suggest a figure for the works to be completed?  They usually do, giving the seller the option of sorting the problems or discounting the price.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, gaetano said:

Thanks for all the tips about DIY-ing the repairs and the best way of getting boating engineers to actually carry out work, but atm I also need quotes, as the purpose is to negotiate a discount before finalizing the sale.

 

 

 

You have a lot to learn, Grasshopper.

 

No-one is going to invest time and effort into visiting this boat and preparing quotations when you don't even own it. 

 

As biscuitman suggests, your surveyor will be able to give you a rough estimate of the likely cost. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

39 minutes ago, gaetano said:

but atm I also need quotes, as the purpose is to negotiate a discount before finalizing the sale.

Why is anyone going to bother to give you a quote if there is little prospect of them getting the work?

Boat valuation is not a precise exercise. Just stick a wet finger in the air and guesstimate an appropriate discount that both seller and buyer are happy with.

[Tony Brooks]

I agree with DMR re the gas joints. It should never have passed the BSS with such grossly oversized hose clips. I suspect those joints are where the gas smell is coming from. The ID of the reinforced worm drive housing is far too large for the hose size.

 

I have given my view on the shaft coupling and if the engine happens to be solidly mounted it could well be fine. If the engine is rubber mounted then the clamp on shaft coupling has to come off and sufficient shaft cut off to give space to fit the flexible. If you choose an R&D coupling you would need to saw off maybe half to three quarters of an inch. As long as the shaft and engine is correctly aligned then apart from the boredom of cutting the shaft it would be a DIY nut and bolt job unless there is a key and keyway involved.

 

I have no idea what the last photo is supposed to show so can't comment.

[LadyG]

OP seems to think that the value of the boat is the price it is offered at minus the cost of the work recommended or highlighted by the surveyor.

I would have thought that the price offered is what the vendor would like to be offered. This may or may not be a good deal for the purchaser. 

Did the surveyor establish a market value?