Boating etiquette

[nicknorman]

15 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

Can't say I appreciate someone who could sink my home and kill my dog doing so without my permission or consent. I've heard stories (not had the experience yet) of people who don't speak english slamming all the paddles open on double wide locks (going up).

 

I've experienced enough volockies not paying attention and heard enough boat sinkings due to lack of attention that when single handed I want to be the one on the ground in control of the lock. Not someone who I have no reason to trust.

As I said, there is a new generation of people who are surprised when the normal course of events takes place. Perhaps you should consider some training so that when you enter a lock, you know what will happen next?
We have never done the thumbs up thing and yet our boat has never sunk in the lock in the past 55 years (not quite sure what relevance it being your home is, other than to add the usual emotive hysteria that some new live aboards seem to like).

I suggest you consider why, having entered a lock, you feel the need to give “permission and consent” for the next bleedingly obvious and logical step in the process. (Just checking, but we are taking about opening a paddle, not about having sex?) If you are not ready to transit the lock, don’t enter it! But I am sure that you graciously giving your “permission and consent” makes you feel very important and in control, so go for it. Lots of other people do these days. Meanwhile I will reserve the right to judge your competence.

Edited July 12, 2023 by nicknorman

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

Can't say I appreciate someone who could sink my home and kill my dog doing so without my permission or consent. I've heard stories (not had the experience yet) of people who don't speak english slamming all the paddles open on double wide locks (going up).

 

I've experienced enough volockies not paying attention and heard enough boat sinkings due to lack of attention that when single handed I want to be the one on the ground in control of the lock. Not someone who I have no reason to trust.

 

Does anyone know what fraction of boat sinkings on the canals are due to volockie errors, as opposed to boater errors?

 

Genuine question, since they seem to be getting the blame for pretty much everything but most of the accident reports I've read point the finger of blame at inattentive boaters... 😉

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Or just can't hear you because he's 70 years old and standing on top of an aircooled Lister.

Horn signals are a waste of time. Blast it out by all means but assume no one's heard it. And definitely don't bother with all the fancy beeps, nobody at all will know what they mean and they'll just assume you've got a wobbly horn, if you'll pardon the phrase.

Or just has hearing loss, whatever his age. One of the problems with the ting-ting principle is it seems to absolve the rider from anything in its way. Wearing hearing aids can make it difficult to tell from which direction the sound is coming when it is somewhere behind you. Same for long blasts on blind bends. (especially if it came from a car about to go over the hump back or narrow bridge)

[DShK]

24 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

As I said, there is a new generation of people who are surprised when the normal course of events takes place. Perhaps you should consider some training so that when you enter a lock, you know what will happen next?
We have never done the thumbs up thing and yet our boat has never sunk in the lock in the past 55 years (not quite sure what relevance it being your home is, other than to add the usual emotive hysteria that some new live aboards seem to like).

I suggest you consider why, having entered a lock, you feel the need to give “permission and consent” for the next bleedingly obvious and logical step in the process. (Just checking, but we are taking about opening a paddle, not about having sex?) If you are not ready to transit the lock, don’t enter it! But I am sure that you graciously giving your “permission and consent” makes you feel very important and in control, so go for it. Lots of other people do these days. Meanwhile I will reserve the right to judge your competence.

I don't need training, and I don't appreciate the condescending tone. Perhaps consider context, like the price of boats and the increase in people looking to the canals to provide them with a place to live - meaning a boat isn't just a throw away hobby to some people. There are a range of people on the canals - and so why would I trust one of these strangers to be competent and pay attention?

 

I'm not talking about giving a thumbs up. I don't want a stranger to operate the locks for me, unless myself or someone I trust is on land with them. So when I enter a lock and someone whacks open the paddles before I have a chance to step off and get my ropes ready, I don't appreciate it! It adds all of a couple of minutes to allow me to be on land when passing in opposite directions, and asking if I want help is free.

 

Some people have been very respectful of this! I met a lovely couple who had been boating for 30 years and after working the lock WITH them I thanked them, and said some people just seemed to want to rush me through (I was not looking to dawdle either, I was going through atherstone in the rain). To quote them "shouldn't be on the canals if you want to rush".

 

 

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Does anyone know what fraction of boat sinkings on the canals are due to volockie errors, as opposed to boater errors?

 

Genuine question, since they seem to be getting the blame for pretty much everything but most of the accident reports I've read point the finger of blame at inattentive boaters... 😉

I'm not really blaming volockies, just using them as an example of people taking the safety of my home fairly flippantly. And actually, saying this, I do actually trust volockies to work the locks for me.

Edited July 12, 2023 by DShK

[GUMPY]

This new breed of boaters that have arrived in the last 20 years really are wet.

 

[nicknorman]

Oh my home, my home! Wail sob sob.
Pass the bucket please.

 

Quite arrogant to presume that your boat is more important than mine. Sinking either of them would be a terrible thing. But when I enter a lock, I am confident that the opening of the paddles isn’t going to sink ours.

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Or just has hearing loss, whatever his age. One of the problems with the ting-ting principle is it seems to absolve the rider from anything in its way. Wearing hearing aids can make it difficult to tell from which direction the sound is coming when it is somewhere behind you. Same for long blasts on blind bends. (especially if it came from a car about to go over the hump back or narrow bridge)

 

Which is why you should always watch to see if they've heard you and reacted -- for example, looking round or stepping to one side or giving a thumbs-up -- and slow down if they haven't, because they might well be deaf. Or wearing headphones, which sometimes amounts to the same thing... 😞

 

The bikers who think they can go "ting-ting" and then barge on regardless are often the same idiots who charge through blind bridges without looking, and cycle too fast and too close to people. And yes there are too many of them -- just like there are too many boaters who go too fast (passing moored boats or through blind bends or all the time), and too many moored boaters who shout "slow down!" at every passing boat regardless of speed.

 

There are selfish idiots in all walks of life -- cyclists, boaters, drivers -- as well as people who treat others with consideration. The problem is idiots... 😞

Edited July 12, 2023 by IanD

[DShK]

All the lead in the petrol really did a number on the part of your brains that handle empathy, eh.

[matty40s]

6 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

(especially if it came from a car about to go over the hump back or narrow bridge)

...even more confusing for the car driver when I parp...."My Bridge" after their peep. Only on one bridge (twice) has a car stopped.

S&W, first bridge after going up Tixall Lock ..Holdiford Road.

 

[nicknorman]

Just now, DShK said:

All the lead in the petrol really did a number on the part of your brains that handle empathy, eh.

Not really, I just am not the sort of entitled person who thinks that my things are more important that other people’s things.

[DShK]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Not really, I just am not the sort of entitled person who thinks that my things are more important that other people’s things.

But this isn't a case of my stuff versus your stuff? Are our boats battling in the lock? literally all I'm asking is for people to ask before doing something lol and that is terribly unreasonable to you? Are you operating a flyboat? Have you cheese to deliver??

Edited July 12, 2023 by DShK

[matty40s]

3 minutes ago, DShK said:

Have you cheese to deliver??

Lots!!

[DShK]

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

Lots!!

Well, I have lots of cheese on board but the only place it has to be delivered is my mouth!

[Rob-M]

30 minutes ago, matty40s said:

...even more confusing for the car driver when I parp...."My Bridge" after their peep. Only on one bridge (twice) has a car stopped.

S&W, first bridge after going up Tixall Lock ..Holdiford Road.

 

I regularly catch a car on that bridge, always makes me have a little laugh to myself although I do worry one day someone might skid to a halt and crash into the bridge sending the rubble down on top of me and the boat.

[Tonka]

I blame the schools who started telling pupils "that everyone counts". Some people actually starting to believe it and now they are adults.

[Arthur Marshall]

46 minutes ago, DShK said:

To quote them "shouldn't be on the canals if you want to rush".

 

TBH, thst phrase gets right up my nose. It's another bit of entitlement - nobody else matters, just so I can go at the pace I want. They're the ones who crawl along at 1mph while you drop in and out of gear behind them and resolutely won't let you pass, because it's not a race track, you know.

Well, last year, with a week to get from Northwich to Macclesfield before the stoppage, it was. And if they don't get Hassal Green fixed this week, it will be again, because I have commitments to meet, as do hire boaters on a schedule etc. Sometimes, usually due to circs out of ones control, you do have to rush.

I try to avoid the entitled slowspeed merchants by going early, but the phrase still makes me bridle as much as those "Master Boaters go slow..." notices, which always, always make me speed up.

 

[DShK]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

TBH, thst phrase gets right up my nose. It's another bit of entitlement - nobody else matters, just so I can go at the pace I want. They're the ones who crawl along at 1mph while you drop in and out of gear behind them and resolutely won't let you pass, because it's not a race track, you know.

Well, last year, with a week to get from Northwich to Macclesfield before the stoppage, it was. And if they don't get Hassal Green fixed this week, it will be again, because I have commitments to meet, as do hire boaters on a schedule etc. Sometimes, usually due to circs out of ones control, you do have to rush.

I try to avoid the entitled slowspeed merchants by going early, but the phrase still makes me bridle as much as those "Master Boaters go slow..." notices, which always, always make me speed up.

 

 

There's balance and compromise though isn't there? When people work together... Like, if I was holding some someone up behind me, I would either let them pass, or let them go through the lock first. However, trying to save 2 minutes when someone is going in the opposite direction to you in a lock, maybe you shouldn't pack your holiday so jam full! I've met a few hire boats who seem SO stressed. Always get the feeling they are on the brink of divorce because of the holiday...

12 minutes ago, Tonka said:

I blame the schools who started telling pupils "that everyone counts". Some people actually starting to believe it and now they are adults.

Well that's not me, because I think people who make proto-fascist comments like this are insects.

Edited July 12, 2023 by DShK

[enigmatic]

I generally steer an exaggerated wide course early so the other boater can see exactly what I'm doing and I don't have to worry about boaters who arent sure which side to pass on, boaters who can't steer, boaters who panic about small gaps or the wind

If they stay in the middle of the channel, that's fine with me, and on the rare occasions I ground its my fault not theirs and I know plenty of ways of getting off again. This would probably be different if I had a deep draughted boat

 

 

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

As I said, there is a new generation of people who are surprised when the normal course of events takes place. Perhaps you should consider some training so that when you enter a lock, you know what will happen next?
We have never done the thumbs up thing and yet our boat has never sunk in the lock in the past 55 years (not quite sure what relevance it being your home is, other than to add the usual emotive hysteria that some new live aboards seem to like).

I suggest you consider why, having entered a lock, you feel the need to give “permission and consent” for the next bleedingly obvious and logical step in the process. (Just checking, but we are taking about opening a paddle, not about having sex?) If you are not ready to transit the lock, don’t enter it! But I am sure that you graciously giving your “permission and consent” makes you feel very important and in control, so go for it. Lots of other people do these days. Meanwhile I will reserve the right to judge your competence.

I can't be the only person struggling to reconcile this opinion with your hatred of volockies opening paddles for you?

[nicknorman]

51 minutes ago, DShK said:

But this isn't a case of my stuff versus your stuff? Are our boats battling in the lock? literally all I'm asking is for people to ask before doing something lol and that is terribly unreasonable to you? Are you operating a flyboat? Have you cheese to deliver??

My point related to you suggesting that because your boat was your home, that it was particularly important that it didn’t sink. This is a common concept from those who have recently taken up residence on the canals and I don’t agree with it. Everyone’s boat is equally important when it comes to the not-sinking thing,

Just now, enigmatic said:

 

I can't be the only person struggling to reconcile this opinion with your hatred of volockies opening paddles for you?

I don’t particularly mind volockies opening paddles for me, although these days we try to discourage any involvement from volockies, partly because they are stealing our fun but also because in some cases they try to take control and tell you how to do it consequent to their vast experience gained on a long weekend course.

 

I think the only time I have been mildly peeved by a volockie opening a paddle was Sawley lock going uphill, whilst I was struggling to loop the stern rope around the bollard. He was standing at the control console, on the front of which was a large sign telling boaters they must use ropes fore and aft in the lock. It wasn’t that he nearly sank the boat (he didn’t) it was just that if you are going to have volockies and large signs telling boaters what they must do, the volockie really should be compliant with the sign.

[DShK]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

My point related to you suggesting that because your boat was your home, that it was particularly important that it didn’t sink. This is a common concept from those who have recently taken up residence on the canals and I don’t agree with it. Everyone’s boat is equally important when it comes to the not-sinking thing,

 Fair enough. Of course I'm not de-valuing someone's boat just because they don't live on it. But I would bet there is less to lose on a holiday boat. As someone who has had a major house fire in the past, and lost pets and many treasured memories to it, it's not a great time. My brother suffered from (undiagnosed and then later clinically diagnosed) PTSD from that for a long time. Mostly I am less worried about my "stuff" on the boat (most can always be replaced). But more worried about my dog. He's not a particularly physically capable animal....

[PCSB]

4 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

I approach every unsighted bend/bridge/obstacle as if another boat is going to appear, as it often will, and make sure i'm going at a speed that will allow me to stop or take avoiding action if it does.

Some seem to take the opposite view that they should get through it as quickly as possible.

The last time we were hit was a bridge on a blind corner. I was in tick and had given the horn a blast, as i passed under the bridge a boat came round the bend at full speed and chucked it in reverse when he saw me, which meant he had no steering and t-boned our bow. If he'd been going a reasonable speed for the bend he'd have had the time and control to steer away from any collision. Luckily we only lost a bit of blacking and a cupboard came open.

These days i'll usually wave an oncoming boat through a bridge first even if i'm a bit closer, got sick of the loonies that give it full beans to try and beat you to it  

I pretty much do what you do too, don't understand the need of some to clearly speed up and try beat you to the bridge ... could be fun if we were to meet at a bridge, I can see it now - after, no after you, no I insist ...

[noddyboater]

19 hours ago, NB Alnwick said:

I sometimes wonder how some boat owners learn their boating skills. I remember that we did a lot of research before we started boating including taking the RYA's 'Inland Waterways Helmsman Course' and spending a time learning from experienced boaters. 

 

Going on recent experience nowhere. 

I helped a couple up Wood end lock yesterday who had bought a boat from Banbury.  They'd managed to get as far as the T&M but asked whether you "should close lock gates behind you if there's nobody coming?"  

Oh dear. 

[enigmatic]

2 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

Going on recent experience nowhere. 

I helped a couple up Wood end lock yesterday who had bought a boat from Banbury.  They'd managed to get as far as the T&M but asked whether you "should close lock gates behind you if there's nobody coming?"  

Oh dear. 

wondered why the T&M was shut due to lack of water...

[MtB]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Oh my home, my home! Wail sob sob.
Pass the bucket please.

 

Quite arrogant to presume that your boat is more important than mine. Sinking either of them would be a terrible thing. But when I enter a lock, I am confident that the opening of the paddles isn’t going to sink ours.

 

What if you are single-handing uphill and your bow fender gets caught in the gate, and the person who'd whacked up the paddles just wandered off?

 

Yes it happened to me and I was at the helm. I hooted the hooter, no response. My weak link in the fender chain eventually broke but it was a really scary moment and the boat was fine, but since then I've always got off the boat in locks.

 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

12 minutes ago, noddyboater said:

They'd managed to get as far as the T&M but asked whether you "should close lock gates behind you if there's nobody coming?" 

But I once had someone close a gate in my face as they left a lock. When I asked why, they acknowledged that they had seen me, but said they had been told they must close all gates on leaving the lock.