70 ft traditional

[nealeST]

After many months of studying the form I have arrived at the stage of really favouring 70ft traditional boats. The highly prized 57ft is the premium size attracting the premium price and most seller/ buyer attention. Up to now I kept my interest fixed at 62ft max. Some very desirable boats above that size and not necessarily more expensive, same and in some cases less. If I want to spend 6 months of the year on the canal then I think I'd like the space. Now my question is are people still having these boats commissioned? It seems fewer people are in the market to buy existing boats. Could it be they are no longer being built?

[Alan de Enfield]

The market only has a certain capacity - it is basically a 'cottage' industry, and figures I have heard show that much of customer demand is now for widebeam boats (apparently it could be as much as 2 widebeams to 1 narrowboat) so the cpacity for any length of narrowboat is severely affected.

There is also the move to electric powered boats (since the Governement has said that from 2035 no boats can be built that are not zero emission propulsion, and from 2025 all boats built must be capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion)

 

Apparently build waiting times from 'quality' builders is up to 4 years.

[Tacet]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There is also the move to electric powered boats (since the Governement has said that from 2035 no boats can be built that are not zero emission propulsion, and from 2025 all boats built must be capable of being converted to zero emission propulsion)

The Government has yet to pass any legislation in this respect.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

 I doubt many people get 70ft narrows built new, I do remember one I believe from Crick a few years ago called Sri or Gri also featured in Waterways World.

 70ft moorings harder to find than 60ft, I have a 60ft and there’s more then enough space for me. I think 70ft would be too much. Also 70ft a bit restrictive for certain canals/areas. Have you been on a 60ft or a 70ft to see if the extra or loss of 10ft would make a massive difference to you?

Edited April 28, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[MtB]

34 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Have you been on a 60ft or a 70ft to see if the extra or loss of 10ft would make a massive difference to you?

 

My 68ft boat seemed a LOT bigger inside than my current 57ft.

 

Seemed far more than 11ft bigger. When I sold it, I reckon could have added £20k to the value by having it shortened by 11ft.

[nealeST]

Hmm, not that I want to open a discussion about elec propulsion but good luck installing all that charging infrastructure canal side...

Vintage engine room for me please.

Will be interesting to see how many widebeams start appearing in the years ahead. I guess that probably means the end of 70ft boats along the lines of RW Davis, David Harris, Roger Fuller to name a few. Not to mention the maverick that was Steve Hudson. I'd love to know how many of those type of boats weighing in at 70ft are on the system? Anyway of finding out? If I had the funds available presently I'd buy one tomorrow....

42 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 Have you been on a 60ft or a 70ft to see if the extra or loss of 10ft would make a massive difference to you?

I was on a 62 ft for the day last week. The owner has a cross bed. I'm 6'3...I can't do crossbreds. It got me thinking...I love boatman's cabins and engine rooms. The 62footer had all that but the cross bed is the fly in the ointment for me.

 

I grew up in Litherland feet away from The L&L. As long as I can get through Wigan from the south and head to the Albert Dock I'm very happy. Just have to keep sering Yorkshire the none boat way! I think I'm more of a Cheshire person these days anyway 😉.

 

I have four kids, two grown ups and teenager. Whilst I don't see six of us all at once it would be nice to have the capacity as I think I have years of extended family ahead.

 

Hairy fairy alert: I am a painter. I have romantic notions of an onboard painting studio...suddenly those 10/12 feet seem essential.

 

[rusty69]

I would love to comment on this, but our boat is only 69 foot.

[nealeST]

Oh go on,😆 69 is my favourite number! 

 

"When I sold it, I reckon could have added £20k to the value by having it shortened by 11ft."

 

it would likely cost £20k to shorten it..?

but in that is the attraction, you get a lot of boat for your money...even if you settle on 69ft...it's like in the city where I'm based...smaller flats per sq m are so much more expensive than flats double the size....

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, nealeST said:

Oh go on,😆 69 is my favourite number! 

 

"When I sold it, I reckon could have added £20k to the value by having it shortened by 11ft."

 

it would likely cost £20k to shorten it..?

but in that is the attraction, you get a lot of boat for your money...even if you settle on 69ft...it's like in the city where I'm based...smaller flats per sq m are so much more expensive than flats double the size....

 

 

In my opinion having done a bit of cruising with a 71ft boat as a companion, 68ft or 69ft is WAY easier to cruise in than full length. All those bits where a full length boat 'only just fits' are a breeze with two or three feet to spare. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

51 minutes ago, nealeST said:

Hairy fairy alert: I am a painter. I have romantic notions of an onboard painting studio...suddenly those 10/12 feet seem essential.

Then I think you should get the biggest/longest/widest boat you can afford for wherever you intend to cruise. 
 

👍

 

I’m on a 48’ boat and all my art stuff has to be tucked away, storage is a pain.
 

You’ll know what it’s like, stuff has to be left out otherwise it won’t be used. 
I have to plan ahead and think before the paints, the printing press or photography stuff comes out. 

 

a 70 footer with dedicated studio space would be ace.

and get historic one too !
 

Another option (which seems to be a growing trend) is to have a separate boat that you push or pull along. 
In that way you could have a dedicated studio, it could have its own engine too  so you could do day trips out and about. 

Lots of options if you have the budget. 😃

[dmr]

21 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

In my opinion having done a bit of cruising with a 71ft boat as a companion, 68ft or 69ft is WAY easier to cruise in than full length. All those bits where a full length boat 'only just fits' are a breeze with two or three feet to spare. 

 

I wonder who that could be?

 

There is an obsession with 57foot go anywhere boats even though only a very few boats appear to actually go through the Calder and Hebble, and so some longer boats are less desirable. But, I suspect there will always be a strong niche market for trad boats with an engine room etc. Have a look on ABNB etc and be shocked by some of the prices.  I suspect that just a few of the new cheap housing people, and owners of "novelty" boats, will take to boating and want to move to a "proper boat" 😀 and this will sustain that niche market. Its very sad that the top tier specialist builders are dying out, but maybe somebody will spring up to replace them, or maybe it will make the existing trad boats even more expensive.

 

Maybe you should have done a back cabin in your old boat and moved it up to the midlands to sell it? 

[matty40s]

I had a 57/60ft as one of the non-negotiables on my must buy list when I was looking, along with a normal engine.

Walking onto a 70 footer with a Gardner 2L2 changed my mind and I have never regretted it. 

[nealeST]

25 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Another option (which seems to be a growing trend) is to have a separate boat that you push or pull along.

Yes I've seen that, very nice Tug and butty used as stained glass workshop on the L&L. 

And I couldn't agree more...you need your stuff ready all the time...thanks for your comments 🤗 love the positivity. As a C&C said to me recently you've got to get into all the fine detail, the only way to make your dreams a reality.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

I wonder who that could be?

 

Now you come to ask, I can't for the life of me remember who it was...!

 

But I do remember them being very good cruising company  

 

 

[Guest]

If you have no intention of visting the beautiful Northern parts of the system then 70ft will be fine.

 

Or one option would be to buy a 70 footer and then hire up North in a 57ft boat when you wish to get to the best bits.

 

Job done.

[roland elsdon]

I have a toy boat now after 3 proper 71’6 ones. Not the same. Full length boats fit the full length system. No banging around in locks or getting lost in winding holes. Having a go anywhere boat still havent been anywhere a 71’6 couldnt go

[dmr]

29 minutes ago, M_JG said:

If you have no intention of visting the beautiful Northern parts of the system then 70ft will be fine.

 

Or one option would be to buy a 70 footer and then hire up North in a 57ft boat when you wish to get to the best bits.

 

Job done.

 

The Rochdale and HNC are both beautiful and spectacular Northern canals and both can be done in a 70 foot boat on a there and back basis.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

The Rochdale and HNC are both beautiful and spectacular Northern canals and both can be done in a 70 foot boat on a there and back basis.

 

Leeds & Liverpool?

 

Calder & Hebble?

[Rob-M]

71'6" doesn't bang about in locks but can be a challenge sometimes especially in midlands locks with single gates both ends where you need to do a bit of jiggling around to get the gate open.

[roland elsdon]

No its the toy boats that bang around especially on southern oxford where they get a good run at the gates when helpfull people draw top paddles fast.

Breaks the gate collar.

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

My 68ft boat seemed a LOT bigger inside than my current 57ft.

 

Seemed far more than 11ft bigger. When I sold it, I reckon could have added £20k to the value by having it shortened by 11ft.

 

It's funny how perception works.

 

When I had the Nauticus 27 with a 16 foot cabin, I'd often get people with 60 foot narrow boats comment how spacious it was!

 

The benefits of having a yacht designer doing the layout I suppose.  Every square inch was used two or three ways.

 

5 berth, two two seater dinettes that were two of the berths and could be beds or sofas, cabin seating for 10, cockpit seating for 5.

 

Tradeoffs were a 4 foot galley with a sink cover or the stove cover as the only worktop space and the heads were smaller than my current wardrobe!

 

[MtB]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

It's funny how perception works.

 

When I had the Nauticus 27 with a 16 foot cabin, I'd often get people with 60 foot narrow boats comment how spacious it was!

 

The benefits of having a yacht designer doing the layout I suppose.  Every square inch was used two or three ways.

 

5 berth, two two seater dinettes that were two of the berths and could be beds or sofas, cabin seating for 10, cockpit seating for 5.

 

Tradeoffs were a 4 foot galley with a sink cover or the stove cover as the only worktop space and the heads were smaller than my current wardrobe!

 

 

There were no trade offs in my 68 footer. Trad engine room, back cabin, fixed bed in its own bedroom, decent sized bathroom, decent sized galley, large saloon, large welldeck. Long elegant swims. The whole thing was superbly well designed. 

 

Was a bugger to sell though. No-one wants a vintage Kelvin in a boat longer than 57ft.

 

Well one person did and what a bargain he got! 

 

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

71'6" doesn't bang about in locks but can be a challenge sometimes especially in midlands locks with single gates both ends where you need to do a bit of jiggling around to get the gate open.

I have never had significant problems with a 71'6" boat in Midlands locks. But you do sometimes need to lift the rear fender and put the rudder over when going down.

[frahkn]

8 hours ago, nealeST said:

Hmm, not that I want to open a discussion about elec propulsion but good luck installing all that charging infrastructure canal side...

Vintage engine room for me please.

Will be interesting to see how many widebeams start appearing in the years ahead. I guess that probably means the end of 70ft boats along the lines of RW Davis, David Harris, Roger Fuller to name a few. Not to mention the maverick that was Steve Hudson. WW Anyway of finding out? If I had the funds available presently I'd buy one tomorrow....

I was on a 62 ft for the day last week. The owner has a cross bed. I'm 6'3...I can't do crossbreds. It got me thinking...I love boatman's cabins and engine rooms. The 62footer had all that but the cross bed is the fly in the ointment for me.

 

I grew up in Litherland feet away from The L&L. As long as I can get through Wigan from the south and head to the Albert Dock I'm very happy. Just have to keep sering Yorkshire the none boat way! I think I'm more of a Cheshire person these days anyway 😉.

 

I have four kids, two grown ups and teenager. Whilst I don't see six of us all at once it would be nice to have the capacity as I think I have years of extended family ahead.

 

Hairy fairy alert: I am a painter. I have romantic notions of an onboard painting studio...suddenly those 10/12 feet seem essential.

 

Well I'll start you off, my 70' Orion is one of only 10 still existing.

 

It won't be for sale tomorrow but that doesn't matter as you don't have the funds now. However I will be 70 this year and unfortunately may not live forever. Perhaps you funding improvement and my demise will coincide!

 

Interestingly (or not), I grew up in Ormskirk, a few miles from the L&L at Burscough.

[nealeST]

Ormskirk, know it well. Hard going peddling up there on a bike but a breeze all the way home!

 

I miss spent my youth as a petrol head. I find it strange that boat sales aren't divided just as cars. It's like having MK1 Cortinas advertised with the latest Toyota hybrid offering and just calling the whole lot 'cars'. Yes true there is the distinction between sterns...but there is a lot more than that to distinguish from. I should imagine in the future a bit of separation in the market?  With only 11 Orion boats of circa 70ft in the world then such rareness befits a more differentiated place for selling and buying? Well that's my classic car perspective anyway. 

I have hung on to a clutch of classic vehicles these past two decades and luckily have appreciated in part due to the rarity. I will be selling them in part to fund my boat...of which I am now convinced has to be circa 70ft.

 

It is a dismay to strike the Yorkshire end of the Leeds and Liverpool from my dreams BUT it is with equal dismay that I note the water shortages and stoppages that increase along that canal. Plenty of boaters stuck for the season on the Rufford branch last summer. To Cross the Pennines and so many hundreds of feet above sea level it is no wonder water can be in short supply....even more frustrating if you have the right sized boat.