C&RT License Survey

[malp]

On 17/02/2023 at 18:37, cuthound said:

 

I haven't had mine either.

 

If it hasn't turned up by Mondy I will give CRT and ring and sk thdm to send me one ASAP.

It's an online survey, if CaRT have your email address you should be sent a link to participate.  The actual invitation is being sent out by DJS Research who are conducting the survey. 

[Barneyp]

On 17/02/2023 at 18:37, cuthound said:

 

I haven't had mine either.

 

If it hasn't turned up by Mondy I will give CRT and ring and sk thdm to send me one ASAP.

From the original email CRT sent out on the 1st of Feb saying the consultation was happening:

We have engaged DJS Research to run the consultation on behalf of the Trust. They will be sending out an invite to you to take part in the consultation questionnaire in the next week.(my bold) The invite will not come from a Canal & River Trust email address but from an @djsresearch.com email address. 

 

It took 3 weeks for them to send mine so they are obviously behind so I guess there may still be a lot to send out, it's running to the 5th of April so still time for them to catch up.

If you do not receive an invitation to take part in the consultation – please check your junk/spam box in case the email has gone there.

If you still cannot find the invite, please contact us on 03030 404040 and we can arrange for the consultation invite to be re-sent to you.

On 17/02/2023 at 18:02, MtB said:

......

So do we have any guarantee CRT will publish the detailed results of this survey? I fear they will keep it secret and just announce whatever plans they have already drawn up and claim the survey supports them. I also fear the 'charge by deck area' idea will be dismissed for the same opaque reason as last time.

From the Consultation on future boat licence pricing FAQ

 

Will you publish the results of the consultation?

Yes, we will publish the results along with our decision and next steps.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

45 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

Hirers are valuable to CRT because they massively increase the number of people who care about the canals, and who can or will to some extent influence the governments decisions on future grant funding, hirers are also a source of future license fee payers (AKA boat owners). 

 

The hirers and the hire companies have an interest in license fees, and the hire companies are included in the consultation. I think CRT need to be aware of the need to ensure that the hire companies can continue to operate as they are vital to the future of the canals, they probably need a separate consultation with different questions: hire boats have a permanent mooring and probably cruise far more over the course of a year than most "continuous cruisers".

I absolutely, fully agree with the sentiment of that. 
But it is a survey aimed at a license holder. 

those who do want to answer the survey can request CRT for one. 

On 17/02/2023 at 18:37, cuthound said:

 

I haven't had mine either.

 

If it hasn't turned up by Mondy I will give CRT and ring and sk thdm to send me one ASAP.

Has it turned up yet ?

Got mine this evening. 

[Barneyp]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I absolutely, fully agree with the sentiment of that. 
But it is a survey aimed at a license holder. 

those who do want to answer the survey can request CRT for one. 

But will CRT send the survey to non-licence holders just because they request one?

 

The link that is sent is obviously personalised, because having completed the survey if I click the link again I get a message saying it's not possible to do the survey again. So even if non-licence holders do complete it their responses can.be kept separate from licence holder responses.

[Arthur Marshall]

53 minutes ago, Graham and Jo said:

It is interesting and I think everyone will bias their answers towards protecting the group of boaters with which they identify. 

 

Wide versus narrow, permanent mooring or continuous cruise. 

 

At least 4 possible camps.

 

Cheers Graham 

 

 

Some of straddle several camps, uncomfortable though such a position may be.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

But will CRT send the survey to non-licence holders just because they request one?

 

The link that is sent is obviously personalised, because having completed the survey if I click the link again I get a message saying it's not possible to do the survey again. So even if non-licence holders do complete it their responses can.be kept separate from licence holder responses.

I believe they will send one, the original blurb said they would unless I’m getting this survey mixed with another 

yes it is personalised because they said something like “we see you’re a continuous cruiser….”  
 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Goliath

[Arthur Marshall]

I recorded the introductory video - is anyone interested in me posting it somewhere? I'm assuming there are quite a few people on here who aren't licence holders and might be interested. I can stick it on my website and post a link if anyone wants it. I don't think there's anything confidential in it that only boat owners should be allowed to see...

[BilgePump]

10 hours ago, Barneyp said:

It took 3 weeks for them to send mine so they are obviously behind so I guess there may still be a lot to send out, it's running to the 5th of April so still time for them to catch up.

 

 

10 hours ago, Goliath said:

Has it turned up yet ?

Got mine this evening. 

 

Mine arrived at 1am this morning, not exactly the 'next week' they stated at the start of the month

[Jon57]

31 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

 

 

 

Mine arrived at 1am this morning, not exactly the 'next week' they stated at the start of the month

Ditto 

[DaveP]

Just got my email.  Strike 1 for the gentrificationof the waterways and anti-cc'ers - first watch a 200MB video; 20% of my monthly mobile internet allowance (or £10 on payg).  Thoughtless idiots, as ever.

[IanD]

11 hours ago, Barneyp said:

But will CRT send the survey to non-licence holders just because they request one?

 

The link that is sent is obviously personalised, because having completed the survey if I click the link again I get a message saying it's not possible to do the survey again. So even if non-licence holders do complete it their responses can.be kept separate from licence holder responses.

 

Yes. I don't know if they'll send them to anyone (named Tom, Dick, Harry or anything else) who just fancies taking part, but they're sending one to me... 😉

 

(I told them I'm expecting to become a narrowboat owner in the near future -- of course I could have been telling porkies...)

[Arthur Marshall]

I don't think this is a survey (sorry,  consultation) to get suggestions, I think it's a survey to gauge reactions.

I did think of suggesting tripling the licence fee for all non-residential boats that never left a marina or mooring on the grounds that this would just leave boaters with an interest in actually boating (like some councils do for holiday homes), but in the end didn't bother as it was pretty obvious who was going to get targetted.

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think this is a survey (sorry,  consultation) to get suggestions, I think it's a survey to gauge reactions.

I did think of suggesting tripling the licence fee for all non-residential boats that never left a marina or mooring on the grounds that this would just leave boaters with an interest in actually boating (like some councils do for holiday homes), but in the end didn't bother as it was pretty obvious who was going to get targetted.

 

I haven't seen the consultation/survey yet, but given that referendums are famously non-binding it could only ever be an attempt to gauge the opinions of boaters on different options to raise more money via the license fee.

 

Once CART have this information -- which they've said they will publish -- they can decide what courses of action will get the least disapproval from the most boaters, and be able to justify them by saying "We asked you all and this is what you chose" when there are inevitable protests from boaters who end up paying a lot more as a result.

 

Like in any election, groups of boaters who are a minority (e.g. widebeams, CCers) are likely to be the hardest hit, because the majority will vote for what costs them the least. And like in any election, I suspect "fairness" to the minorities will have very little to do with the outcome -- that's the problem with democracy... 😉

 

Not that I'm saying CART shouldn't do this consultation, it's the least bad option faced with the funding gap they've got. But this won't make it any less painful for those who have to cough up... 😞

Edited February 22, 2023 by IanD

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, malp said:

It's an online survey, if CaRT have your email address you should be sent a link to participate.  The actual invitation is being sent out by DJS Research who are conducting the survey. 

 

Yes that is how I knew I was selected, but still haven't received a survey yet. I'll give them until the 24th, then contact them. 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes that is how I knew I was selected, but still haven't received a survey yet. I'll give them until the 24th, then contact them. 

What they sent me this morning:

 

"I have added your details to the consultation contact list. You should receive an email from DJS Research with a link to the consultation early next week. If you haven't had it by Wednesday 1st March, and you've checked your spam/junk folder, please let me know."

[LadyG]

On 16/02/2023 at 12:49, dmr said:

CRT pretty much have their hands tied unless they get new legislation, and thats not going to happen.

Hitting CC'ers looks attractive, but really its the CM'ers they want to get.

Cheap housing on semi static boats is the biggest growth area (I suspect) Another shot at the roving mooring permit would be good, but that can't be done legally. Also if cheap housing is no longer cheap it might be less attractive, or the increased cost in handling unlicenced boats might exceed the extra income.

How would a higher CC licence cost work for boats that CC in the summer but take a marina mooring over the winter?

 

I predict they will go for a higher CC licence but after a backlash will set it at something trivial like an extra 5% delayed for 5 years, so increase their admin costs for very little gain 😀

I realise it's anonymous survey or I would not have identified as liveaboard because that changes their perception of me. "a boater with a private mooring ", but in retrospect if all liveaboards completed the survey and all boaters were surveyed that gives them the exact amount of income they can raise  from cc, which a bit unfair imho. I did say I'd be leaving fairly soon and that I was worried about costs rising. This is  comparing my boating expense versus my potential land based cost, I would prefer to live on my boat, with a winter mooring with electricity for a few months. This was not the info they were looking for, but I think it would be worthwhile looking at setting up more electric moorings as more boaters will be looking at that. I suppose I could have put that in the survey, but they are not thinking out the box.

I also told them to operate one in one out senior management system 

[Ray T]

Received mine this morning.

[LadyG]

On 16/02/2023 at 12:49, dmr said:

CRT pretty much have their hands tied unless they get new legislation, and thats not going to happen.

Hitting CC'ers looks attractive, but really its the CM'ers they want to get.

Cheap housing on semi static boats is the biggest growth area (I suspect) Another shot at the roving mooring permit would be good, but that can't be done legally. Also if cheap housing is no longer cheap it might be less attractive, or the increased cost in handling unlicenced boats might exceed the extra income.

How would a higher CC licence cost work for boats that CC in the summer but take a marina mooring over the winter?

 

I predict they will go for a higher CC licence but after a backlash will set it at something trivial like an extra 5% delayed for 5 years, so increase their admin costs for very little gain 😀

 

On 16/02/2023 at 12:49, dmr said:

CRT pretty much have their hands tied unless they get new legislation, and thats not going to happen.

Hitting CC'ers looks attractive, but really its the CM'ers they want to get.

Cheap housing on semi static boats is the biggest growth area (I suspect) Another shot at the roving mooring permit would be good, but that can't be done legally. Also if cheap housing is no longer cheap it might be less attractive, or the increased cost in handling unlicenced boats might exceed the extra income.

How would a higher CC licence cost work for boats that CC in the summer but take a marina mooring over the winter?

 

I predict they will go for a higher CC licence but after a backlash will set it at something trivial like an extra 5% delayed for 5 years, so increase their admin costs for very little gain 😀

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by LadyG
Trying to delete

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, Goliath said:

Has it turned up yet ?

Got mine this evening. 

 

Not yet, I've checked the spam folder, but that is empty. I'll give them until Friday the 24th and then give them a ring if it still hasn't arrived.

[Bristolfashion]

44 minutes ago, DaveP said:

Just got my email.  Strike 1 for the gentrificationof the waterways and anti-cc'ers - first watch a 200MB video; 20% of my monthly mobile internet allowance (or £10 on payg).  Thoughtless idiots, as ever.

You might want to review your internet provider / deal. We were offered 100 GB / month for £20/month (24 month plan) recently. And that was certainly not with the cheapest provider. We went with £25 month unlimited.

[LadyG]

I don't think that giving a discount on electric boats is a good plan, t looks to me like a green wash.

I don't think anyone with the funds for an electric boat is too worried about the licence discount. The cRT are asking how to raise more money via licencing, well don't hand out discounts, it seems obvious.

I don't know the problem with measuring widebeams, it sounds like a simple decision, the wider boats pay more than the narrow ones, proportionally. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

the wider boats pay more than the narrow ones, proportionally. 

 

As is already the case.

 

'Narrowboat boaters' proposals are that wideboats should pay a bigger percentage difference.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I recorded the introductory video - is anyone interested in me posting it somewhere? I'm assuming there are quite a few people on here who aren't licence holders and might be interested. I can stick it on my website and post a link if anyone wants it. I don't think there's anything confidential in it that only boat owners should be allowed to see...

That’d be a good idea, I somehow missed the video and couldn’t return to it.

I assumed the written blurb which follows the video amounts to the same?

 

 

 

 

[haggis]

We got our survey stuff this morning but not looked at it yet.

We also got our licence renewal email which said that although widebeams pay extra if a person needs a widebeam because of a disability, they can apply for exemption from the extra.  We don't have a widebeam but we were obviously sent the same blurb as all boaters. I didn't know about the possible wide exemption.

haggis

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by haggis

[SLC]

Question about the licence fee. We initially paid by debit card and have 1 month before our first renewal I received an email stating that we are entitled to a 5% discount for prompt payment or paying online. However, it appears that they will automatically renew using the card details previously used. Do we still get the 5% discount?