C&RT License Survey

[ditchcrawler]

36 minutes ago, Goliath said:

CCers (I hate that term) should get a discount. 
Everyone knows if locks aren’t used they go bad, dry out and fail. 
Locks collect debris and need flushing out. 
 

We’re doing the system a favour. 👍

Caring for it by using it. 

Does this mean there are officially 2 licences a CC licence and a leisure licence 

[TheBiscuits]

29 minutes ago, john6767 said:

If you read the FAQ relating to the consultation, that addresses this point.

 

For ease:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-consultations/consultation-on-future-boat-licence-pricing-faqs

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

I don't think any Tom, Dick or Harry should have a say but all relevant stakeholders should.

Even hirers if they are likely to be impacted by decisions made around licensing have a valid reasoon to be allowed to provide input.

I did think about hirers, but failed to find a good reason for them to be included. 
I’m up for a change of mind though if you can suggest why they should be included. 

[Smiles]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

The FAQs also pretty much confirm what's been said on this thread -- there is going to be a significant overall increase, they're considering going to an area-based (width*length) license to reflect the "utility that each boat receive", they're considering a surcharge for CCers because "they cost more to support".

 

All these are controversial and there are strong feelings for and against them; I suspect CART don't care what the exact outcome is so long as they raise more money, the consultation is about how to spread the increase around.

 

So it's likely that whatever the majority of people who respond vote for will get implemented, even though a minority will undoubtedly be unhappy with the result whatever happens, and the arguments about what is "fair" will continue until the canals run dry.

 

Sounds horribly familiar... 😞

So, their sub agender is all about wiping CCers off the cut. You will own nothing, but you will be happy.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Smiles said:

So, their sub agender is all about wiping CCers off the cut. You will own nothing, but you will be happy.

 

I don't think CART have an agenda, except to raise more money -- if the majority vote for a CC surcharge that will happen and boaters with a home mooring will pay less than CCers, if it doesn't both will pay more -- but both the same, as today.

 

Whether you personally agree or disagree with things like area pricing or a CC surcharge won't matter, they'll go with the majority, and you'll either be in it to win it or a minority loser. Like B...... [not going to say the word] 😉

Edited February 16, 2023 by IanD

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Does this mean there are officially 2 licences a CC licence and a leisure licence 

no, I dunno why I say CCers (I hate that term)

I was just counter acting the old Argument that CCers(I hate that term) should contribute more.

 

I have no home mooring, and am referred to by some as a CCer (I hate that term). 
You have a home mooring but cover many more miles than I do. 

So there’s many a senseless argument in all this. I think

 

I get tired of it. 

[Arthur Marshall]

6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I did think about hirers, but failed to find a good reason for them to be included. 
I’m up for a change of mind though if you can suggest why they should be included. 

I've met hirers who have spent more time on a moving boat than three quarters of the boat owners on my mooring. Out of a couple of dozen boats, three of us spend any great time cruising. Most haven't moved for years.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've met hirers who have spent more time on a moving boat than three quarters of the boat owners on my mooring. Out of a couple of dozen boats, three of us spend any great time cruising. Most haven't moved for years.

I don’t doubt it, and I always treat hirers with respect for the amount of boating they do. 
But they’re not license holders, I can’t see the issue of license fees being something for them to get involved in. 
 

Id like to here their views on all other aspects such as moorings, facilities, maintenance and so on but licenses 🤷‍♀️
 

 

[matty40s]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Does this mean there are officially 2 licences a CC licence and a leisure licence 

Nope , it's the CRT Licence, either for boats that have a home mooring, or boats that do not have a home mooring

[Arthur Marshall]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I don't think CART have an agenda, except to raise more money -- if the majority vote for a CC surcharge that will happen and boaters with a home mooring will pay less than CCers, if it doesn't both will pay more -- but both the same, as today.

 

Whether you personally agree or disagree with things like area pricing or a CC surcharge won't matter, they'll go with the majority, and you'll either be in it to win it or a minority loser. Like B...... [not going to say the word] 😉

Boaters with a home  mooring won't pay less than CCers, they'll just pay it in two chunks instead of one. Currently, we pay more.

Whether CRT will factor in the benefit that genuine cruisers bring to the system is a moot point. Twenty years ago you could argue that they provided an invaluable service, and those that cruise still do. Sadly they are now a minority and it's the usual story of those that manipulate the system, in the end, making it worse for everyone including themselves.

[Smiles]

8 minutes ago, Goliath said:

no, I dunno why I say CCers (I hate that term)

I was just counter acting the old Argument that CCers(I hate that term) should contribute more.

 

I have no home mooring, and am referred to by some as a CCer (I hate that term). 
You have a home mooring but cover many more miles than I do. 

So there’s many a senseless argument in all this. I think

 

I get tired of it. 

I hate that term, (I hate that term), I hate it even more in (brackets) {()()()}

Edited February 16, 2023 by Smiles

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've met hirers who have spent more time on a moving boat than three quarters of the boat owners on my mooring. Out of a couple of dozen boats, three of us spend any great time cruising. Most haven't moved for years.

I've never added it up, but I must have done at least a couple of thousand miles and locks on hire boats -- does that count? 😉

[Smiles]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

I've never added it up, but I must have done at least a couple of thousand miles and locks on hire boats -- does that count? 😉

(No,) sorry I ment No.😂

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Smiles said:

(No,) sorry I ment No.😂

Ooh, now you're being hireist... 😉

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

22 minutes ago, IanD said:

I've never added it up, but I must have done at least a couple of thousand miles and locks on hire boats -- does that count? 😉

Nope, because you never paid a license. 
 

 

[wandering snail]

41 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

For ease:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-consultations/consultation-on-future-boat-licence-pricing-faqs

These have suddenly appeared to cover CRT's back trying to suggest that there really are two boat licences.

[Smiles]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

Ooh, now you're being hireist... 😉

Hireist, lowerist, CCist, I'll be up the cut without a paddleist soonist, when (CARTist) get their own wayist, this is a democraticish dic-tator-shipist.🤔🤭🤫

Edited February 16, 2023 by Smiles

[Smiles]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Boaters with a home  mooring won't pay less than CCers, they'll just pay it in two chunks instead of one. Currently, we pay more.

Whether CRT will factor in the benefit that genuine cruisers bring to the system is a moot point. Twenty years ago you could argue that they provided an invaluable service, and those that cruise still do. Sadly they are now a minority and it's the usual story of those that manipulate the system, in the end, making it worse for everyone including themselves.

The few spoil it for the many, could almost be a WEF ditty🤔

[Alan de Enfield]

57 minutes ago, Smiles said:

So, their sub agender is all about wiping CCers off the cut. You will own nothing, but you will be happy.

 

The last 'big review' proposed that a CCers licence should be 2.5x that of a boat with a home mooring.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The last 'big review' proposed that a CCers licence should be 2.5x that of a boat with a home mooring.

There is no CC license 

One question in the consultation refers to a continuous cruiser (CC) licence, are there different licences for CC boaters or those with a home mooring?

Technically there is one licence, and boaters either declare that they have a home mooring or that they will continuously cruise. People often refer to a CC licence, but this simply means they have a licence and continuously cruise.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

There is no CC license 

 

Read the Licence T&Cs - things change .............................

 

 

 

Types of Licences The following types of licence can be applied for.

These Conditions (including any Schedules) below apply to these options:

 

• A Pleasure Boat Licence (“standard boat licence”) for either 3, 6 or 12 months is required to navigate on Our Canals & Rivers. You will need a home mooring for Your boat for this licence type.

 

• A Rivers Only Licence is valid for ‘River Waterways’. These are defined in Schedule 1 of the British Waterways Act 1971, as amended. A Rivers Only Licence constitutes a “pleasure boat certificate” for the purposes of the Act.

 

• A Continuous Cruising licence does not need Your boat to have a home mooring. This licence is either for 6 or 12 months and You’ll have to follow Our ‘Guidance for Boaters Without a Home Mooring’.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’ve just pasted what I thought was their latest statement linked to the license BS

 

how is anyone expected to know what’s what if CRT are going to publish different information?

 

 

I see you missed out Roving Traders License?

[Cheshire cat]

I thought of hirers purely from the perspective that if a decision was made to double (for example) the cost of a business license for a hire boat it would inevitably be passed on to the hirer. Not much in the grand scheme of things but hirers are minor stakeholders in the discussion.

[dmr]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The last 'big review' proposed that a CCers licence should be 2.5x that of a boat with a home mooring.

 

That would make many Northern moorings very financially attractive, though supply and demand would likely shoot the prices up making life very difficult for Northern boaters with a home mooring.

[Cheshire cat]

I think most proper moorings are £2500 - £3000 up here in the north so I can't see much financial advantage if any of suddenly becoming a leisure boat with a mooring.

 

Perhaps C&RT should introduce a congestion charge for boats within the north circular. That would be a nice earner for them.