Which skills (to learn) would serve a new liveaboard the best?

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I would just comment that unless a battery bank is faulty, checking the voltage will not tell you much unless you understand "rested voltage" and how rested voltage relates to approximate state of charge. To the lay person, there is not much difference between 12.2 and 12.7, or even 11.8 and 12.7 volts. The above answer shows how poorly battery voltage is understood. If the engine or any other charger is running then the voltage will be the charging voltage, not the rested voltage, and if you try to infer state of charge from that it will be too high. Likewise, if you measure the voltage with a load running, especially a heavy load, then the voltage will not be the rested voltage, and you will underestimate the state of charge. This is why getting a good grasp of batteries and their charging very early in ownership is vital.

 

Obviously that's all 100% correct, and I think the real thrust of the idea that I would try to get into the OPs head at this very early stage is to keep an eye on the batteries from the moment you get aboard. And all the more so if there are no solar panels to help the batteries, since the boat will probably have been left unoccupied for several weeks or months before he turns up. 

I just blithely assumed my batteries would be ok, if I even thought of them at all- and new boaters need to understand that this is not the case, and they need to be aware of the battery state immediately.

There will be different things to keep an eye on as you say, and hopefully the OP will develop some sort of checklist and will work on getting some knowledge about batteries, in advance of the big day when he steps aboard. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tony1 said:

 

Obviously that's all 100% correct, and I think the real thrust of the idea that I would try to get into the OPs head at this very early stage is to keep an eye on the batteries from the moment you get aboard. And all the more so if there are no solar panels to help the batteries, since the boat will probably have been left unoccupied for several weeks or months before he turns up. 

I just blithely assumed my batteries would be ok, if I even thought of them at all- and new boaters need to understand that this is not the case, and they need to be aware of the battery state immediately.

There will be different things to keep an eye on as you say, and hopefully the OP will develop some sort of checklist and will work on getting some knowledge about batteries, in advance of the big day when he steps aboard. 

 

 

 

I agree with all that, but would rather he got to grips with rested voltage and inferred state of charge before he gets on the boat.

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

I agree with Alan. Concentrate on earning £100k a year then spend it on people to do it all for you  

 

But more seriously, the skill you'll need first. It could be anything, but when the first problem crops up, concentrate on that. 

 

 

 

 

It will probably be batteries.

 

 

Your engine needs oil. So check the dipstick. It is easy to change the oil and filter, you need to do this every so often. So best to know what grade of oil and quantity you need to carry, plus the correct oil filter. 

It needs cooling. The cooling system will probably look similar to a basic car system, so you need to top it up occasionally, this does not mean filling it to the top as the excess will probably end up in the engine compartment DAMHIK. I use a universal ready mix (there are others but not compatible with each other, as far as I know)

So, my minimal daily engine checks are: oil, water, and alternator belt tension (twisting the belt between fingers and thumb forty five degree),  I look for split hoses, or anything untoward/unusual with a good bright torch.

At this time of the year RCR or a good engineer can service your engine, this will include oil, coolant, checking alternator belt,  engine mountings,  changing the fuel filter, changing the gearbox fluid.

My spares are engine oil, oil filter, alternator belt, gearbox fluid, fuel filter.

I am not an expert. I get a professional service every year, because I can't reach everything and I don't know everything :). 

Nearly every boater knows how to change oil, that does not make them an expert.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by LadyG

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Laurie Booth said:

After buying your boat, get River Canal Rescue to teach you how to service your engine. They come to your boat to teach you.

In winter, but maybe not when busy with breakdowns in summer.

[Jon57]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

With a low-skill level, initially, I'd arrange to have plenty of money available (so you can pay someone to do the work, watch them, and learn for the next time it breaks).

 

The most important thing to learn is the fuel system & keeping the engine / gearbox running (forget electrics and water you can manage without them) if the engine is working you are never stuck in the middle of nowhere and can always get to someone to sort out other peoblems.

Don’t forget about complaining about CRT not fit for purpose.🤭🤭

[The Narrow Way]

15 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Don’t forget about complaining about CRT not fit for purpose.🤭🤭

 

I'm still at the naive stage.  I'll learn to hate CRT later 😉.

[system 4-50]

Off the top of my head, my priority order would be:

1. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

2. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

3. Engine & Drive Gear Routine Servicing - stuff that needs doing when things have not gone wrong.

4. Internet Access - for researching problems.  You need to know how you're going to access it in the back of beyond.

5. Engine Maintenance - knowledge for when stuff needs doing when things have gone wrong.

6. Gas & Ventilation Maintenance

7.  Stove & Ventilation Maintenance

8. Toilet Maintenance

9. Exterior Steel Maintenance - painting & blacking

10. Money-making skills. (The ranking of this depends on the level of initial resources!)

 

TB's website (for which and other works he deserves a gong) is essential reading and the Smartgauge site is also worth wading through.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by system 4-50

[The Narrow Way]

2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Off the top of my head, my priority order would be:

1. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

2. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

3. Engine & Drive Gear Routine Servicing - stuff that needs doing when things have not gone wrong.

4. Internet Access - for researching problems.  You need to know how you're going to access it in the back of beyond.

5. Engine Maintenance - knowledge for when stuff needs doing when things have gone wrong.

6. Gas & Ventilation Maintenance

7.  Stove & Ventilation Maintenance

8. Toilet Maintenance

9. Exterior Steel Maintenance - painting & blacking

10. Money-making skills.

 

Thanks, this is really useful.  I like the amount of consensus that is forming at the top of the list.  Gives me some very definite areas of focus.  Appreciate your extended priorities too.  Working on #10 😂.

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

With a low-skill level, initially, I'd arrange to have plenty of money available (so you can pay someone to do the work, watch them, and learn for the next time it breaks).

 

The most important thing to learn is the fuel system & keeping the engine / gearbox running (forget electrics and water you can manage without them) if the engine is working you are never stuck in the middle of nowhere and can always get to someone to sort out other peoblems.

Assuming the battery is charged to start it

[David Mack]

55 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

4. Internet Access - for researching problems.  You need to know how you're going to access it in the back of beyond.

Lots of discusssion on the forum about the best way to access the Internet, but before buying anything fancy try using your phone, either on its own or to tether your laptop. In many areas you will need nothing more.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Don’t forget you’ll need a beer cellar!

No1 priority really. 

that’s my only regret not buying a 70’ boat,

more room for beer beer beer 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Off the top of my head, my priority order would be:

1. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

2. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

3. Engine & Drive Gear Routine Servicing - stuff that needs doing when things have not gone wrong.

4. Internet Access - for researching problems.  You need to know how you're going to access it in the back of beyond.

5. Engine Maintenance - knowledge for when stuff needs doing when things have gone wrong.

6. Gas & Ventilation Maintenance

7.  Stove & Ventilation Maintenance

8. Toilet Maintenance

9. Exterior Steel Maintenance - painting & blacking

10. Money-making skills. (The ranking of this depends on the level of initial resources!)

 

TB's website (for which and other works he deserves a gong) is essential reading and the Smartgauge site is also worth wading through.

 

 

 

I disagree with the first two. They should be "battery management". Maintaining batteries is easy. Just keep them topped up with distilled water.

 

It's learning to manage their state of charge that really stretches newbies and defeats a good number of them, causing them to throw in the towel and sell the boat because they totally underestimate the degree of commitment needed to learn about it properly. 

 

No-one yet has posted a link to the Battery Primer here. 'Essential reading' barely covers how important it is to read and understand all that Tony (Wotever) wrote on the subject. The absolute definitive article for lead acid battery users. 

 

(Disregard virtually all of it if you have li batts.)

 

Link here:

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by MtB
Fiddle with it...

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

In winter, but maybe not when busy with breakdowns in summer.

 

I bought my boat in June 2013 and arranged for RCR to come and show me how to service it by the end of June.

 

Because I was familiar with diesel engines and electrics (but not on boats) I had finished the service within a hour, so the RCR guy spent the next couple of hours showing me all sorts of useful things about my boat, including all of the major system (water, heating etc).

[The Narrow Way]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

I bought my boat in June 2013 and arranged for RCR to come and show me how to service it by the end of June.

 

Because I was familiar with diesel engines and electrics (but not on boats) I had finished the service within a hour, so the RCR guy spent the next couple of hours showing me all sorts of useful things about my boat, including all of the major system (water, heating etc).

 

I guess if you sign up for their service it's actually in their interest to keep you self-sufficiently up-and-running, rather than activating callouts from them.

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I disagree with the first two. They should be "battery management". Maintaining batteries is easy. Just keep them topped up with distilled water.

 

It's learning to manage their state of charge that really stretches newbies and defeats a good number of them, causing them to throw in the towel and sell the boat because they totally underestimate the degree of commitment needed to learn about it properly. 

 

No-one yet has posted. link to the Battery Primer here. Essential reading barely covers how important it is to read and understand all that Tony (Wotever) wrote on the subject. The absolute definitive article for lead acid battery users. 

 

(Disregard virtually all of it if you have li batts.)

 

Link here:

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/

 

 

 

 

My list is as follows:

 

 

 

Yep, I am garnering this. 

I have to say, allocating a chunk of budget to lithium is quite tempting to me.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, The Narrow Way said:

 

I guess if you sign up for their service it's actually in their interest to keep you self-sufficiently up-and-running, rather than activating callouts from them.

 

Yep, I am garnering this. 

I have to say, allocating a chunk of budget to lithium is quite tempting to me.

 

I think it is better to waste £500 a couple of times f*cking up sets of LA batts than £2k a couple of times doing it to Li batts. 

 

 

[The Narrow Way]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it is better to waste £500 a couple of times f*cking up sets of LA batts than £2k a couple of times doing it to Li batts. 

 

 

 

This is a reasonably good point actually.

[The Narrow Way]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Off the top of my head, my priority order would be:

1. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

2. Battery Maintenance - charging & discharging

3. Engine & Drive Gear Routine Servicing - stuff that needs doing when things have not gone wrong.

4. Internet Access - for researching problems.  You need to know how you're going to access it in the back of beyond.

5. Engine Maintenance - knowledge for when stuff needs doing when things have gone wrong.

6. Gas & Ventilation Maintenance

7.  Stove & Ventilation Maintenance

8. Toilet Maintenance

9. Exterior Steel Maintenance - painting & blacking

10. Money-making skills. (The ranking of this depends on the level of initial resources!)

 

TB's website (for which and other works he deserves a gong) is essential reading and the Smartgauge site is also worth wading through.

 

 

That Smartguage site is a peach - thanks.

 

Link for others here - http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/technical1.html

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, The Narrow Way said:

 

This is a reasonably good point actually.

 

Back in the day I decided to buy a decent set of LAs, do my homework and look after them real well. Within six months they were knackered as the  Smartgauge I purchased to monitor them was incorrectly calibrated at the factory and wrongly reporting both the terminal voltage and the SoC. 

 

 

[cheesegas]

18 minutes ago, MtB said:

I think it is better to waste £500 a couple of times f*cking up sets of LA batts than £2k a couple of times doing it to Li batts. 

The best thing about a properly set up lithium system is that it's impossible to kill them through abuse. Over discharge? The BMS will cut off discharge at a safe level. Over current discharge? Likewise, the BMS should sound a pre-alarm and disconnect the cells. 

 

Again, with a properly set up system, it's impossible to overcharge them as the BMS will tell the charge sources to switch to float.

 

Yep, running them from 10% up to 20% and back down again and again will shorten their lifespan a little, but it won't result in sudden loss of capacity.

 

Note that a hybrid bodge doesn't count as a properly set up system; it relies heavily on the end user knowing what they're doing and changing critical settings as no professional wants their name associated with a hybrid system. With an inexperienced end user, entering in the wrong settings is possible and it makes it possible to damage the cells through over charge and discharge.

Edited February 19, 2023 by cheesegas

[MtB]

1 minute ago, cheesegas said:

The best thing about a properly set up lithium system is that it's impossible to kill them through abuse.

 

Totally agree but the catch lies in the bit I highlighted....

 

 

[DaveP]

A lot of the discussion is about operating the boat - but just as important, is operating yourself; liveaboard life can be very different from that on the hard with respect to interactions with others, both in authority, casual acquaintances and closer friends. So there's keeping the boat tidy, keeping yourself tidy, keeping stocks of food and other supplies around (and in date and in good shape) without (sometimes) the presence of others to keep you on the straight and narrow.  Plus, if you're working, not only navigating the boat, but also navigating to/from a workplace either by your own or public transport....

 

 

[system 4-50]

MTB: "I disagree with the first two. They should be "battery management". Maintaining batteries is easy. Just keep them topped up with distilled water."

 

Agreed!  The forum software lets me correct that post! But won't let me save it!  So I want to quote your post. But it won't let me do that either!  Time to reboot the Universe...

[The Narrow Way]

7 minutes ago, DaveP said:

A lot of the discussion is about operating the boat - but just as important, is operating yourself; liveaboard life can be very different from that on the hard with respect to interactions with others, both in authority, casual acquaintances and closer friends. So there's keeping the boat tidy, keeping yourself tidy, keeping stocks of food and other supplies around (and in date and in good shape) without (sometimes) the presence of others to keep you on the straight and narrow.  Plus, if you're working, not only navigating the boat, but also navigating to/from a workplace either by your own or public transport....

 

 

 

A good point, well made.  Yes, I think the tests of narrowboat living, with all the system management and life adaptations is probably a skillset in and of itself.

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, DaveP said:

A lot of the discussion is about operating the boat - but just as important, is operating yourself; liveaboard life can be very different from that on the hard with respect to interactions with others, both in authority, casual acquaintances and closer friends. So there's keeping the boat tidy, keeping yourself tidy, keeping stocks of food and other supplies around (and in date and in good shape) without (sometimes) the presence of others to keep you on the straight and narrow.  Plus, if you're working, not only navigating the boat, but also navigating to/from a workplace either by your own or public transport....

 

 

 

All true.

 

Many years ago I remember walking along the towpath to my boat and some patronising bloke commenting on the Tesco large carrier bag I had full of shopping, and him saying how it must be my week's-worth of food an drink supplies. 

 

I chose not to correct him and point out it was my day's supply. I typically carried a bag full of stuff to the boat EVERY evening and another bagful bag of stuff back to the van every morning. Rubbish, washing, shopping, all sorts of stuff needs lugging back and forth all the time I found. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Essential skills,  patience, tolerance, compassion, understanding.