Garage Forecourt Coal

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I've just had to put a few more grade A Columbian doubles on the fire as it's a bit chilly. Also have a good stock of Union Lignite briquettes which are great. They have a really good slow burn and relaxing heat release which is just the ticket in this little boat. 

 

Being the inner city boat I can't really burn wood as Grauniad readers would have a go about it. 

 

On the country estate boat it is fresh winter felled ash all the time. Lovely. 

 

Smoke signals warmth and comfort. Basic. 

Good for you. Not so good for everyone else though, is it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

 

And yes this was attributed to PM2.5 pollution from roads, which the governments own figures quoted above say is exceeded by that from woodburning stoves.

 

Still happy with your choice? 🙂

Edited January 2, 2023 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

21 minutes ago, M_JG said:

M_JG towers this evening...

 

Lubbly jubbly 

[booke23]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

If you think that article was clickbait, you have a rather distorted view of what constitutes that.

 

All newspaper articles are clickbait. They have to be...that's how they exist.....surely you're not so naive to believe otherwise. 

[magnetman]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

Good for you. Not so good for everyone else though, is it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

 

And yes this was attributed to PM2.5 pollution from roads, which the governments own figures quoted above say is exceeded by that from woodburning stoves.

 

Still happy with your choice? 🙂

 

I'm happy with it yes. Otherwise I would not be doing it. 

 

 

"contributed to" might be a clue here. 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, booke23 said:

 

All newspaper articles are clickbait. They have to be...that's how they exist.....surely you're not so naive to believe otherwise. 

There is a definition of "clickbait", which is having a misleading or sensational header to pull people in which isn't borne out by the contents of the article -- and also where the article is light on facts and heavy on biased opinion. 

 

The one I posted has a header which is a fair representation of the contents, which are mostly factual -- meaning it's not clickbait by most definitions.

 

Not agreeing with an article or disliking the politics of the source doesn't make it clickbait... 😉

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

 

I'm happy with it yes. Otherwise I would not be doing it. 

 

 

"contributed to" might be a clue here. 

Aah, so if her death is only 50% caused by pollution that makes it OK, does it?

 

Same with Covid, it didn't directly kill some people but was a major contributing cause to their deaths.

 

I'm not saying you should be tearing your hair out with guilt because you're burning wood, but it's not credible to claim that the resulting pollution -- from your stove and everyone else's -- doesn't contribute to the problems described in the above reports.

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Aah, so if her death is only 50% caused by pollution that makes it OK, does it?

 

Same with Covid, it didn't directly kill some people but was a major contributing cause to their deaths.

 

I'm not saying you should be tearing your hair out with guilt because you're burning wood, but it's not credible to claim that the resulting pollution -- from your stove and everyone else's -- doesn't contribute to the problems described in the above reports.

 

I'm perfectly well aware that it contributes to air pollution but the issue I have is that I am not bothered.

 

Similarly with the covid nonsense. Not bothered. Sorry for the disappointment.

 

Too many people. A good way to control populations is to remove the weaker specimens during the course of ordinary living.

Humans at some stage will be forced to carry out this procedure. I would rather prefer it is by natural selection according to specific weaknesses than by wars which inevitably kill a lot of useful and healthy, durable people.

 

It will of course be wars.

 

 

[magnetman]

 

In case you are not sure about this, the Climate Change story is mostly marketing bullshit. Humans do not possess the collective intelligence to avert the outcomes but what they do have is the intelligence to make some people very wealthy in the process of ruling over the masses.

 

Surely the headline about the electric car man 'losing more money in a year than anyone has ever done in history' must be a bit of a flag here.

 

I'm sorry but the future you ordered is not available and never will be.

 

 

[booke23]

23 minutes ago, IanD said:

There is a definition of "clickbait", which is having a misleading or sensational header to pull people in which isn't borne out by the contents of the article -- and also where the article is light on facts and heavy on biased opinion. 

 

Isn't that a fairly apt description of newspaper articles! As someone who never reads or buys newspapers it is to me. 

 

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

The one I posted has a header which is a fair representation of the contents, which are mostly factual

 

That's clickbait in most people's books.

 

27 minutes ago, IanD said:

Not agreeing with an article or disliking the politics of the source doesn't make it clickbait... 😉

 

An accurate description of my position is that I dislike slanted press.....so all newspapers! I'm not interested in the politics of the news source.....or politics full stop. Which is why I don't even read to politics section of this forum.

[Stroudwater1]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Good for you. Not so good for everyone else though, is it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

 

And yes this was attributed to PM2.5 pollution from roads, which the governments own figures quoted above say is exceeded by that from woodburning stoves.

 

Still happy with your choice? 🙂

 

Ian you are using one case to try to make a sweeping point. Its not as straightforward as you make out, not by a long way.

 

This was a controversial case which had a second iteration. The coroner from the  first inquest found a different cause of death. An expert was wheeled in for the second inquest. Its not unknown for experts to be wrong though, and to claim they are always impartial  is rather far fetched. Expert witnesses make significant earnings from being called to Coroners courts, I personally  knew  one who was deliberately controversial so they would be called more often. 

 

However  "The coroner said the failure to reduce pollution levels to legal limits possibly contributed to her death, as did the failure to provide her mother with information about the potential for air pollution to exacerbate asthma" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Ian you are using one case to try to make a sweeping point. Its not as straightforward as you make out, not by a long way.

 

This was a controversial case which had a second iteration. The coroner from the  first inquest found a different cause of death. An expert was wheeled in for the second inquest. Its not unknown for experts to be wrong though, and to claim they are always impartial  is rather far fetched. Expert witnesses make significant earnings from being called to Coroners courts, I personally  knew  one who was deliberately controversial so they would be called more often. 

 

However  "The coroner said the failure to reduce pollution levels to legal limits possibly contributed to her death, as did the failure to provide her mother with information about the potential for air pollution to exacerbate asthma" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what he does. 

 

Selecting and expoiting a particular and very sad incident to make a point.

 

As I said, its about demonising people. 

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Ian you are using one case to try to make a sweeping point. Its not as straightforward as you make out, not by a long way.

 

This was a controversial case which had a second iteration. The coroner from the  first inquest found a different cause of death. An expert was wheeled in for the second inquest. Its not unknown for experts to be wrong though, and to claim they are always impartial  is rather far fetched. Expert witnesses make significant earnings from being called to Coroners courts, I personally  knew  one who was deliberately controversial so they would be called more often. 

 

However  "The coroner said the failure to reduce pollution levels to legal limits possibly contributed to her death, as did the failure to provide her mother with information about the potential for air pollution to exacerbate asthma" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Expert witnesses are a known problem in our legal system as their words can carry a disproportionate weight.

 

I have known two people who do some expert witness work. One was an academic who was not doing so well in his job so looking for other ways to further his career. The other was good and honest and was quite surprised to be involved in a case where the other side produced its own "expert" witness with diametrically opposed views. He had to conclude that somebody was either not expert or not telling the truth.

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

 

I tend to agree. Given that the experts are telling us that the actions of various governments, as a consequence of various COPs and similar, are relatively insignificant, it would seem that the sh!tstorm is coming, like it or not.

 

I recall a TED talk some years ago where a Dutch scientist suggested that new technology over the next century would take care of accommodating the downside of climate change over time, and that there were much more pressing things that our resources should be directed towards.

 

My own take is that someone should organise the building of several huge solar farms around the tropics and arrange for the power to be distributed world wide. As far as I can tell, in relative terms, it wouldn't take much space, and the locations would be such that environmental "damage" would be pretty much nil. I am thinking about places like the Sahara Desert and similar. I think Elon Musk has something like this on his radar, but I'm not sure how far he has got with it... and I may be wrong.

 

Having said that, whatever the rest of the world does, I think electrification, powered by renewables, (wind, solar, tide..... not wood), is no bad thing. Walking along a busy road, the fumes from vehicles are very noticeable. If they were all electric, things would be much more pleasant.

 

 

 

 

Solar farm in Morocco I read paid for partly by us?

[Ianws]

The Guardian might be low in some people's opinions but they do publish letters reacting to the original article that offer different opinions. Here are some letters re stoves including one from a narrowboat liveaboarder  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/01/wood-burning-stoves-for-some-of-us-wood-is-the-only-practical-affordable-fuel

[GUMPY]

39 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Solar farm in Morocco I read paid for partly by us?

Octopus Energy are investing heavily  in this, i got the wrong country earlier.

There is a cable to be laid from there to SW England.

[Ianws]

I'd hate to think what the voltage drop on that would be.🤔

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Ianws said:

I'd hate to think what the voltage drop on that would be.🤔

 

I expect they'll go for 24V rather than 12V...

 

 

[Ianws]

Or a bit more than that 😀

 

[mrsmelly]

59 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Expert witnesses are a known problem in our legal system as their words can carry a disproportionate weight.

 

I have known two people who do some expert witness work. One was an academic who was not doing so well in his job so looking for other ways to further his career. The other was good and honest and was quite surprised to be involved in a case where the other side produced its own "expert" witness with diametrically opposed views. He had to conclude that somebody was either not expert or not telling the truth.

Cleveland child abuse anyone.................

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I expect they'll go for 24V rather than 12V...

 

 

 

Probably many thousands of volts and a fraction of an amp so not much volt drop, and also probably AC making transformer use easy.

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Solar farm in Morocco I read paid for partly by us?

 

What a great idea. As long as we dont mess up our countryside with such a carbuncle all is OK I guess..

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Cleveland child abuse anyone.................

 

Wow you have a good memory.

 

We had a newborn in MGH in the midst of all that shit storm.

 

Not good.

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

What a great idea. As long as we dont mess up our countryside with such a carbuncle all is OK I guess..

 

Wow you have a good memory.

 

We had a newborn in MGH in the midst of all that shit storm.

 

Not good.

In one of their many deserts I read and the power was for them as well 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Probably many thousands of volts and a fraction of an amp so not much volt drop, and also probably AC making transformer use easy.

1100kV DC is in use already for ultra-long distance links -- AC has higher losses...

[booke23]

12 minutes ago, Ianws said:

I'd hate to think what the voltage drop on that would be.🤔

 

I wonder what size solar controller they'll use? 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, IanD said:

1100kV DC is in use already for ultra-long distance links -- AC has higher losses...

 

Ta.