Historic boat owner film maker

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

So how did it work for those who were doing a run, if that was what it was called. A long delivery, say Brum to London delivering and picking up full loads?

How did pay work for them? Was it a wage based on a day rate or was it simply priced per job?
 

 

 

[Ray T]

Braunston Strike:

 

Braunston Strike (steamershistorical.co.uk)

 

Strike - Braunston Village History

 

Photo taken at Stoke Bruerne museum.

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Sorry, I can’t read the most of that, all a bit out of focus when I zoom in. 
I have some understanding of the toll collections and gauging, what I’m really after is the boater’s pay packet. 
 

I can make out from above that  the ticket was paid the following month by the carrier. The carrier being the company not the boater, yes?
So can I assume that boaters working for a company would never have to pay out any money but only return the tickets they’ve collected on route for the boss to sort out. 
 

 

I can only imagine it working if each job was done at a price. Price varying depending on demand for the load and the distance it’s to be taken. 
 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Goliath

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Sorry, I can’t read the most of that, all a bit out of focus when I zoom in. 
I have some understanding of the toll collections and gauging, what I’m really after is the boater’s pay packet. 
 

I can make out from above that  the ticket was paid the following month by the carrier. The carrier being the company not the boater, yes?
So can I assume that boaters working for a company would never have to pay out any money but only return the tickets they’ve collected on route for the boss to sort out. 
 

 

I can only imagine it working if each job was done at a price. Price varying depending on demand for the load and the distance it’s to be taken. 
 

 

 

The Beulah Library Roll F21 Inland Waterways 1950 film has a section where a steerer gets his orders, money and a ration book.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Ray T

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Thanks,  I’ve found the library and will have a look. 
 

Nowt to do with wages but have found this in the meantime 

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVAF53FQOQ76V7GRDHE1KLDOM1K9-CANAL-TRANSPORT/query/canals/

 

might have to cut and paste link

 

 

[GUMPY]

I know its the Scum  but here she is:

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/20764508/moved-old-narrowboat-cut-bills-happier/

 

Only showers twice a week and a makes a bag of coal last two weeks.

paid £30,000 for the boat

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Loddon

[roland elsdon]

Didnt malvern eventually virtually get given away by the owner last time it was on sale? I recollect it got down to circa 10000 before being taken on, or is this the other Malvern.

[Tam & Di]

13 hours ago, Goliath said:

So how did it work for those who were doing a run, if that was what it was called. A long delivery, say Brum to London delivering and picking up full loads?

How did pay work for them? Was it a wage based on a day rate or was it simply priced per job?

We lived on boats on the Thames from the late 50s. In 1960 BWB were advertising for crews and Di and I went for an interview at Bulls Bridge, where we were told that once we were competent and working 6-7 days a week we might be able to earn up to £20 for the two of us. At that time we had friends working as casual labour digging drainage ditches in Richmond Park @ £20 for a 40 hour week; the boating rate didn't appeal and we took ourselves off busking in Paris, Marseilles and St Tropez instead.

On our return we bought the wooden wideboat Progress on the Grand Union at Cowley, Uxbridge, and converted it for living. We saw the very last of the Willow Wren Boats and the last 3 BW pairs on the limejuice trade. By the 70s narrow boat canal carrying had essentially finished other than a handful of enthusiasts 'off the bank' (i.e. not your actual born and bred boat people) working on a self-employed basis through Ashby Canal Transport as described by Dav&Pen. Before that boatmen would almost all be employed and paid on a tonnage rate. We did some work through Ashby but then set up on our own account, and did fairly well finding freights. When we got to employing people we paid them by tonnage as that had been the norm.

 

Tam

 

[Tam & Di]

11 hours ago, Loddon said:

I know its the Scum  but here she is:

Only showers twice a week and a makes a bag of coal last two weeks.

paid £30,000 for the boat

It's difficult to reconcile her stated aim of discovering Malvern's history with her calling it Maggie now. I didn't know people had 2 showers a week in the early 1900s either - I'm sure that was not a boatman's 'thing'. As for the bags of coal, Di was told by boatman Billy Brown's wife that she should just grease her body and wrap herself up in newspaper to keep warm.

 

Tam

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Loddon said:

I know its the Scum  but here she is:

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/20764508/moved-old-narrowboat-cut-bills-happier/

 

Only showers twice a week and a makes a bag of coal last two weeks.

paid £30,000 for the boat

 

 

 

And from your link:

 

"Elizabeth also publishes a YouTube series about life on the boat"

 

Well fancy that, who'da thought it!!

 

 

[alan_fincher]

6 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Didnt malvern eventually virtually get given away by the owner last time it was on sale? I recollect it got down to circa 10000 before being taken on, or is this the other Malvern.

 

No you are correct it was this Malvern, (and WTF with calling it Maggie?).

 

Braunston Marina took the unheard of approach of writing to all the historic boat owners they new, (presumably those who attend the event there), looking to try and better the valuation of (as ou say) £10K.

 

I don't know who bought it, nor even how many owners since, but I doubt sufficient work has been done to increase its value from £10K to £30K

[GUMPY]

What was wrong with Malvern to make it so worthless?

[alan_fincher]

 

Quote

 

The boat is heated by a coal fire, with a £16 bag of coal lasting about two weeks, and powered by a diesel engine that costs about £60 a month.

 

-Advertisement-

 

 

 

 

 

 

We looked at this boat briefly when it was for sale at Uxbridge., (several years before it ended up as an alleged near colander at Braunston).   My memory may be flawed but I think it was priced at £38K, but maybe subject to offers.

 

Apart from some very wobbly  un-flat steelwork to one cabin side, my other memory was of plenty of places where you could see ill fitting polystyrene insulation, apparently no more than an inch thick.

Unless you wanted to freeze to death in conditions like we have just had, I think a bag of coal might last closer to 2 days than 2 weeks

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, Loddon said:

What was wrong with Malvern to make it so worthless?

 

The hull.  I think Braunston Marina may even have made a recent survey available to potential "optimists", (sorry "loving owners").  They were very honest, (surprisingly honest), about it's perceived condition.

 

Caveat: I don't know what, if any, steelwork has been carried out since.

[GUMPY]

14 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

The hull.  I think Braunston Marina may even have made a recent survey available to potential "optimists", (sorry "loving owners").  They were very honest, (surprisingly honest), about it's perceived condition.

 

Caveat: I don't know what, if any, steelwork has been carried out since.

Thank you, it must have been very bad to get such an honest opinion 🤭

Everything is fixable it's just down to cost.

[Dav and Pen]

Hers a piece of Arthur Brays obituary published in the Guardian which shows they got £15 for the jam hole job.
After they finished I got Arthur to make fenders with me supplying all the materials and he must have made dozens until his hands got to bad.

[Tam & Di]

I remember Arthur telling us that Blue Line paid him I think it was half-a-crown (2/6d) extra if he managed to overtake any of the boats loaded before him. He knew it was a con, but still nevertheless worked extra hours to try to do it.

 

Tam

[Heartland]

The Boatmans Strike at Braunston and elsewhere was in 1923 and there had been strikes before this. It was organised by the Transport & General Workers Union and affected in particular Fellows, Morton & Clayton Craft.

 

Arbitration ended the long stike, but did the boatmen benefit from that process ?

 

 

[Ray T]

On one occasion when I visited Mike we were talking about windlass, Mike said I used to have "Wellock." (With a Cheshire accent of course)

Before I put my brain in gear I said "How do you spell that Mike?"

 

He replied with "I'm thick Ray I can't read." With this I got a little cross with Mike, I said "I can't read Arabic, does that make me thick?"

I explained that not having the opportunity for an academic education did not make him 'thick.' I said "Look at all the life skills you achieved; how many people today will manage that?"

After a pause for thought he proudly said "Perhaps I can't read but I can count money!"

 

Also, he recognized the names and numbers of motors, he would then tell me, what engine they had in them at the time of the photograph.

 

Not only did Mike tell me a lot about, boating he taught me much about life as well.

 

[Dav and Pen]

Like that Ray. I feel very privileged to have known some of the original families and learnt a lot from them and their attitude to live. Conversations could be hard especially when taking about places as they had a distinct name for places that made you pause and work it out indeed I found myself using the same, like bottom of mafus and my Atherstone clowboy hat. Gone but not forgotten.

[Ray T]

3 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

Like that Ray. I feel very privileged to have known some of the original families and learnt a lot from them and their attitude to live. Conversations could be hard especially when taking about places as they had a distinct name for places that made you pause and work it out indeed I found myself using the same, like bottom of mafus and my Atherstone clowboy hat. Gone but not forgotten.

 

When I chatted with Mike, I had to use canal names he was familiar with e.g. the Moiree Cut. If I didn't he'd say "You are using names I don't know where you are talking about!"

 

Also he'd say Oxford with a lovely drawl to be followed by an authentic "'Tis Arr" from the Black Country. Braunston was Braaaunston, and Birmingham, Birningum or Brummagem et. al.

It was the way he had learnt.

A few years ago, I got chatting to Henry Hollingshead. I took a little while until I tuned into the way he spoke.

 

I'd occasionally say to Mike "Better to be a has been than a never was."

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ray T

[PD1964]

10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

And from your link:

 

"Elizabeth also publishes a YouTube series about life on the boat"

 

Well fancy that, who'da thought it!!

 

 

There was some sort of “Living on a Narrowboat” show at Birmingham I believe earlier this year for all the Newbies, she was a guest speaker, advising on life afloat, I heard from a well known YouTuber that she’s pretty desperate for Social Media stardom. I watched one of her YouTube Vlogs once and couldn’t get my head round why she kept putting on a stupid voice every now and then, now just take her as a wannabe, like the majority of Narrowboat Vloggers.

Edited December 21, 2022 by PD1964

[Rob-M]

4 hours ago, Ray T said:

On one occasion when I visited Mike we were talking about windlass, Mike said I used to have "Wellock." (With a Cheshire accent of course)

Before I put my brain in gear I said "How do you spell that Mike?"

 

He replied with "I'm thick Ray I can't read." With this I got a little cross with Mike, I said "I can't read Arabic, does that make me thick?"

I explained that not having the opportunity for an academic education did not make him 'thick.' I said "Look at all the life skills you achieved; how many people today will manage that?"

After a pause for thought he proudly said "Perhaps I can't read but I can count money!"

 

Also, he recognized the names and numbers of motors, he would then tell me, what engine they had in them at the time of the photograph.

 

Not only did Mike tell me a lot about, boating he taught me much about life as well.

 

Similar with Joe, when he made fenders for me he was quick enough to tell me how much I owed him and to count the money when I paid him.  Also, when I discussed taking Scorpio from Middlewich to Etruria, Joe remembered every lock and which one of the double locks a working boat should go through where one was too tight.

[MtB]

7 hours ago, Ray T said:

On one occasion when I visited Mike we were talking about windlass, Mike said I used to have "Wellock." (With a Cheshire accent of course)

 

Is (was) that a brand of windlass Ray? Or another name for a windlass?

 

If the latter it's an excellent word. I find it pleasingly onomatopoeic. (Did I spell that right?!) 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by MtB
Spell check intefering.

[dave moore]

Mike, the “ Wellock” windlass referred to were made at Wheelock on the Trent and Mersey. Beautifully proportioned, forged jobs and highly prized among working boaters, as they are today by those of us who care about these things. Mine was made originally with a slightly smaller head than usual these days, they fitted the paddle spindles of that cut in working days. A clay pipe motif was stamped in to the windlass shank as a trade mark. In these days of welded plates and aluminium casts they stand proud. I have to confess to enlarging the eye of mine with a file so it fits the modern spindle.